OldPBNoob
A couple of threads lately have come up regarding E-mag triggers and engineering issues due to the location of the HES magnet in the trigger. Has anyone ever tried moving the HES sensor farther back in order to allow a flatter trigger and farther back magnet location? Or am I missing a reason this wouldnt work? The cavity in which the HES sensor sits seems to have plenty of room for it to move farther back, is this possible?
NCC1701-A
It should be possible to move it as far back as the plug cavity for the HES.Originally Posted by OPBN
Imagine the magnetic detection field is the distance of the activation point and the front of the HES.
Be sure to not short out the wire leads to the HES.
Another way to accomplish this would be to use a less powerful magnet (or a smaller one).
Forest Gump of paintball
Justech.us
Might run into problems with the magnetic field created by the solenoid though.
NCC1701-A
It's possible but I thought that problem was greatly diminished by correcting the solenoid wiring so the field is produced away from the HES.
Specialized AGD Tech
By moving the HES, you would loose your trigger adjustment. Why would you want to do that? Using smaller magnets like some aftermarket triggers have is also screwing with the trigger adjustment.
Registered User
as an electrician
an analog hall sensor is basically a wire wrapped thru a "magnet" the more passes thru the magnet the more more sensitive to interference
hope this helps
got this from studying my tech manuals at work, yeah nuclear power did something for me today! go NAVY
OldPBNoob
Why? if the magnet in the trigger can be positioned fatther back,you could still make it adjustable. Would this mess with the ability to run it in mech?
NCC1701-A
I would think that the trigger was designed to fire at about the same position and that the adjustment was to allow for variances in magnet strength and HES sensor differences in case they needed to change suppliers.
So the questions are:
What are you trying to accomplish by moving it back?
Can it be done another way?
Is Mech or HES more important to you?
OldPBNoob
Hate the bump in stock Emag triggers, and the way the magnet is mounted it makes it difficult to get a trigger that can sit farther back. I would have no problem with the magnet hanging out of the back of the trigger if moving the sensor farther back would allow for a flatter trigger.
paintballmuseum
Try to get one of the rare TL63 Triggers.
I had these in every X I've owned/own and prefer them over any aftermarket trigger out there.
Ask Rogue if he still has one for sale:
http://www.pblegion.com/showthread.php?t=5901
Registered User
The issue is if you move the magnet forward or back you are moving the magnet either into or out of the engagement distance of the HES. Which would mean you are possibly either tripping the HES all the time or you will not ever trip the HES. The HES requires the magnet to be within a certain range (distance) from the HES.
The correct way to move the trigger magnet back would be to find a new HES switch that works in the distance range you want to put the magnet at. Mech issues are a whole other problem.
The reason the smaller not to spec magnets are screwing with things is they effectively change the distance by having a stronger or weaker magnetism.
OldPBNoob
"rare" being the optimal word here. It would be nice to have more choices.
OldPBNoob
OldPBNoob
NCC1701-A
Have you followed this thread?
https://www.automags.org/forums/showt...48#post2793248
I had considered using a Dremel on the stock trigger before I got the TL63.
Last edited by SeeK; 04-03-2012 at 01:33 PM.
OldPBNoob
Yep: https://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=260442 Post #6....
Of course it works-its AGD
No matter where you place the HES, you still need the same thickness of trigger to hold the adjuster. By moving the HES back, all you are doing is moving the trigger closer to the handle. The limiting distance is based on the mechanical requirement. You can adjust the trigger rod so that you can fire the gun with the trigger stopping just in front of the grip. That is your minimum distance. Now you adjust your electronic stop so that it stops the trigger just in front of the trigger rod. Once that is accomplished, adjust the magnet to activate the HES at that location. That is the closest you will ever get, no matter what setup you have.
Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.
Specialized AGD Tech
But this is certainly not the way to adjust an Emag trigger. You need to have a little play before the shot, then the fire, then a little play after the shot. Deviating from this adjustment will cause the Emag to be unreliable. Period.
www.BigEvilOnline.com
The solenoid generates a magnetic field regardless of the polarity. Having it wired correctly only helps minimize the chances of the HES picking it up and reading it as trigger pulls. The noid creates a fairly strong magnetic fields due to the voltage required to fire the gun.
It is also very difficult to shield out a magnetic field. This idea has been discussed at nauseam when Lornecash developed Xmod. Turns out it is easier to 'redirect' one rather than to try to block it out. Either way, you dont gain much even if you could. The system is very limited. You are not going to gain anything that FIX in Xmod doesnt remedy.
Ideally, an optical switch would have been better in the Emag.
OldPBNoob
I'm not looking to adjust an emag trigger.But this is certainly not the way to adjust an Emag trigger. You need to have a little play before the shot, then the fire, then a little play after the shot. Deviating from this adjustment will cause the Emag to be unreliable. Period.
Sometimes you seem totally unable to realize that people are looking at ways to improve the system. It isnt a criticism of the system, but nothing is perfect. TBH, I have zero skills when it comes to making a trigger, so unless someone with machining and teching skills, cough cough, were able to take this up, its only talk anyways.
Im just spitballing ideas and trying to get some conversation going on it. I could just say screw it and put an Ego frame on my Mag and call it a day since essentially thats more of the feel that I am trying to get. But instead, I am trying to see if there is any way to improve within the framework given.
Last edited by OPBN; 04-03-2012 at 05:56 PM.
Specialized AGD Tech
You are absolutely right. Nothing is perfect. But here are a few things to consider...
1-virtually 100's of trigger designs were tried before AGD came up with this one
2-redesigning the trigger system is basically a waste of time, as most options were already thought of 20 years ago
3- the Emag still commands a high price tag 20 years later. Not many others can say that.
4-almost all that have tried to alter the design from the original have failed miserably. That says alot about the original design.
5-if you want a reliable platform, then stick with stock. If not, then try and use whatever you like and sacrifice reliability...the very thing that separates the Emag from ALL others.
6-you can't always reinvent the wheel. Some things are better left alone. If thwere was a better trigger than the TunaBlade, you guys would have seen it already. The hard work has already been done.
7-changing the cosmetics is fine. But when you try and change the function of the design, more time will be wasted.
8-Quality always shoots straight.
OldPBNoob
You're probably right, but doesnt hurt to consider. The design makes it difficult to modify and that's probably why so many are turning to alternate frames to get the job done.
Of course it works-its AGD
My adjustment works great. It provides the the mechanical movement to trip the sear manually. The stopping distance in front of the grip includes the extra distance past the release point of the sear. The electronic stop provides the stop in front of the trigger rod to prevent hyper action on the trigger. The fact that the rod is shorter than the stock setting and allowing the trigger activation closer to the grip means there is more play in the forward direction to allow ample motion prior to the shot. The whole trigger setting doesn't actually deviate from the AGD way of doing things. It just changes the position a bit. This setting isn't for everyone though. Because there is no forward stop on the trigger, you can't limit the forward motion. At a static starting position, the first pull from a dead stop is a bit longer to reach the activation point. Subsequent pulls are short like any other emag trigger pull but closer to the frame. A forward trigger stop would make this setup work really well and allow you to make those trigger adjustments where the trigger barely moves (although I don't have any of my guns set like that). I actually like a bit of trigger movement myself. It gives me a better feel than vibrating my finger on a stiff lever.But this is certainly not the way to adjust an Emag trigger. You need to have a little play before the shot, then the fire, then a little play after the shot. Deviating from this adjustment will cause the Emag to be unreliable. Period.
OldPBNoob
True, but as with the case on one of Lukes triggers, you would move the face of the trigger farther back. This would also eliminate the forward travel issues you mention wouldnt it?
lukescustoms.com
My question is, what is the advantage to using a HES switch?
OPBN, I think the real trick here would be to find a different way to adjust the magnet so you can eliminate the factory adjuster but still use the magnet.
Some food for thought, “IF” it we possible to remove the adjuster part of the magnet assembly you would gain exactly 0.254" of finger space in the trigger guard. If you simply remove the front of the trigger guard leaving the battery pack dovetail, you will gain exactly 0.350" of extra space.
www.BigEvilOnline.com
I believe it was to eliminate the possibility of switch noise (electronic bounce) that is inherent in all micro switch bases triggers. It would have been a true one pull one shot system. Unfortunatley they found out later that it was prone to switch noise from the magnetic field the noid puts off.
Dirty Frank
not to hijack the thread, but do any of you know the specs on the HES that's used? I've been playing around with an EP mag build that would use a HES and I think the sensing range on the HES I'm trying to use might be a little too wide. I was just wondering if any of you know the specs on them or if you have a manufacturer's part number I could look up.
OldPBNoob
What if you made the cavity that the magnet sits in deeper. Once you adjust the magnet to where it needs to be, mark it and mill the part of that protrudes through the trigger down?
I personally don't have a real issue milling out the trigger guard, but I know a lot of purists would cry. If someone were to come up with a reasonably priced aftermarket one that was designed without it, I would be be down for it. Especially if it had the additional ULE milling like in the bottom of the trigger guard etc.
OldPBNoob
I have one in front of me, but the markings are so freaking small, and my eyes suck so I can't make it out. If someone can get me the markings I may be able to figure out which one it is and find some simliar.
Dirty Frank
After thinking more on it, it's probably a better idea for me to get a Gauss meter and figure out what I need from there. Since I'm not using an E-mag frame, the HES isn't going to need the same sensing range anyway. Out of curiosity, I still wouldn't mind knowing what emags use, anyway. Thanks.
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