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Thread: High end / low end / mid end

  1. #1
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    High end / low end / mid end

    I have been thinking about SP / DLX whatever it is lately and how "muddied" the waters have gotten in this regard.

    Once upon a time the Mag and Cocker were clearly high end. They used a slightly different mechanical system from most any other marker out there. You either had the mag, the cocker, or one of the "cheap" blowback markers like the Spyder.

    I recently picked up a Shocker NXT. The last PSP Chicago I went to (the first year that sideline coaching was allowed IIRC) I drooled over the Shocker NXT. Say what you will about SP of the era but I had shot the SFTs for some time and rather liked the NXT. I was, that year, shooting an Evil Minion for other reasons.

    When I "came back" to paintball this year I picked up an NXT (and a Viking, and a classic RT mag). Having grown into the sport shooting SFTs the NXT is everything I remember. Sure it will have its issues but on the field I really do not see what any other marker could do any better. I am sure that owners of the axe, mini, and various other markers will say the same thing. The interesting thing about the NXT is I bought it used and paid a bit less than Ion prices for it.

    So buyers are given markers that use, effectively, the same system for firing a paintball in the Ion, various Shockers, and the Luxe. I can spend anywhere from a couple hundred dollars (or less if I buy used) to $1500

    The main advantage of the higher end markers has come down to "ergonomics". I understand it can be a valid argument but ergonomics are, but nature, different from person to person. Especially considering the age range and body type difference of paintballers on the field.

    So I ask AO its thoughts on todays markers and the lines between low end, high end, and mid range.
    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

  2. #2
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    Lets me start off with I will never own $martFarts guns. Barrel, maxflo, rails, sure, guns no. i have never been impressed with their quality. Everytine I see an ion or shocker on the field I see the same gun in the pits being torn apart or thrown in a gear bag with disgust.

    There really is no low-mid-high any more. The market has been so flooded by 'yearly' guns that a 2 year old 'high end' will sell for 1/4 of its brand new price. Planet Eclipse and Dye started that nonsense with their numbering system and very little changes year to year so that the agglettes can dump mommy and daddy money on 'this years model' which looks little different than the previous.
    Look at Bob Long. Classic, 2k2, 2k5, all were very much the same. Minor changes but not 5 new guns in 5 years. Then came the Gen4/2k6 with a huge change, and the vice etc all had big design changes that justified a new model.
    Planet Eclipse, Dye, and a few others have killed the market with subtile changes but it was the next best thing!
    PE FINALLY realized that a minor milling change does not need to be a new model.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkApollo
    There really is no low-mid-high any more.
    Not in reality, but there is still the marketing angle.

    Some high-ends are no more than designer entries. It's more like buying an expensive car. If it's what you want and like to drive, roll with it. Does it do any better than a fully functional old car? Not when you're stuck in traffic or humping over the pot-holes. Is it more reliable? Maybe, maybe not. Can you compete better with it? Maybe, maybe not. It might be engineered for a smoother ride, but the stiffness and the light weight may make it a rougher ride than an older model.

    And what do you think when you get a scratch on the body? Who does your maintenance? The point there being, if you are capable of maintaining your own stuff and are willing to live with some wear, why would you buy a new ride, unless you just want one? If you can't have any wear, then you're collecting and that's a different game. If someone else does your maintenance, you need a backup or two.

    When a player throws their marker on the ground, that says to me that they did not select or maintain that marker themselves. They are mad at the marker, not themselves for picking that pos or missing the maintenance.

  4. #4
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    they need to do a classics tourney every year. they have vintage races... why not vintage paintball

    To leave feedback: Click seller/buyers name, Click feedback score, Click leave feedback

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTAutoMag
    they need to do a classics tourney every year. they have vintage races... why not vintage paintball
    who is "they" ? Just some random thought you are throwing out there, or you referring to someone in particular ?
    BEZERKERS
    ALL MAG SHOOTING TEAM

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW
    When a player throws their marker on the ground, that says to me that they did not select or maintain that marker themselves. They are mad at the marker, not themselves for picking that pos or missing the maintenance.
    Not necessarily. A poor quality gun can and will always have problems. If you need to replace Orings every other game, or no matter what cannot get the gun to shoot consistantly, that is not always a maintenance issue.
    My 09MM had so many issue I sent it off to a mag-whisperer who put the valve and frame on another gun and it was flawless, swapping back to that one showed the same issues.

  7. #7
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    well I know for a fact that road america has vintage races every year. they even had a big paintball event at road america ONCE

    but a tournament that only features pre-2000ish guns (tanks, masks, and hoppers not included) would be an awesome event

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTAutoMag
    well I know for a fact that road america has vintage races every year. they even had a big paintball event at road america ONCE

    but a tournament that only features pre-2000ish guns (tanks, masks, and hoppers not included) would be an awesome event
    It would be a cocker-mag fest and you know it!

  9. #9
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    why do you think I suggested it

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTAutoMag
    why do you think I suggested it
    promote it at your home field.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimag
    promote it at your home field.
    I would be there to play this.

  12. #12
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    ive never seen an autococker at my field and im the only guy there with a mag

    but ill talk to wally and see

  13. #13
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    Retroball

    No bps limit. Mech only. Sounds like fun.

  14. #14
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    how many would be interested in something like this

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTAutoMag
    how many would be interested in something like this
    Didnt they have a Cocker vs Mag last year in Cali somewhere?

  16. #16
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    ten on my team.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN
    Didnt they have a Cocker vs Mag last year in Cali somewhere?
    Earlier this year at SCVillage.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTAutoMag
    how many would be interested in something like this
    I could field a 3man team or two. Set it up for spring!

  19. #19
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    hmmmm, ill give him a ring

  20. #20
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    I would totally play in a mech only game.

    As far as these markers today, there really is only so many designs to choose from. Smaller companies getting ideas from bigger ones. Seems like the trend now is on spool valve guns. Eclipse is king because they give players style. They make you NEED to have the newest Ego/Geo. Even though the differences from model year to model year are not so noteworthy.

    I would still prefer certain manufacturers though, for their quality, craftsmanship, and superior design. I would not run out to buy a knock off of a higher end marker, but I would take an 08 Ego over the latest model.

    My markers now are a ULE Luke's Custom Emag, Angel A1, and a System X cocker pump.

    And I have always, and will always, boycott Smart Parts. That company makes second rate markers and the organization has no morals or values. They've done some really bad things in the past decade.
    Custom milled ULE bodied E-Mag
    DEMONIC Freeflow Cocker No. 4 of 13 My Feedback

  21. #21
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    I have to say, I believe the range is no longer "Low End" "Mid Range" and "High End".

    <$100 "BackYard" - Plastic BE pumps, JT Walmart-Specials, Alpha Black, "starter kits"

    <$250 "Recreational" - Most Spyders, Tippmanns, Azodins, BT Mechanicals, GOG electros, DP E1

    <$500 "Junior Tourney" - Proto Electros, DP Electros, Eclipse Etek, Etha, Tippmann Crossover, Empire/Invert

    <$1250 "Tournament"- Eclipse Ego & Geo, BL G6R, Macdev Electros, DYE Matrix & DAM, LUXE, Angels

    <$1800 "SuperGun" - Machine Vapor, Eclipse SL, etc





    IMHO the thing that kept Smart Parts from EVER producing a high-end marker in the 2000s was the quality of materials used and the quality control (finish). Cheap aluminum, lazy anodizing, milling marks.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTAutoMag
    ive never seen an autococker at my field and im the only guy there with a mag
    I feel ya. Minus the cocker part. I see a decent amount of those at my field.

  23. #23
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    ok, i started a tourney discuassion...

    http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=262922

    /thread jack over

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TOTShadowCompany
    No bps limit. Mech only. Sounds like fun.
    I would love a mech only game where it really was mech only. No batteries at all, including hoppers.
    "Accuracy by aiming."


    Definitely not on the A-Team.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoatBoy
    I would love a mech only game where it really was mech only. No batteries at all, including hoppers.
    and no pneumatics?

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags
    and no pneumatics?
    I'm pretty sure nearly all paintball guns are pneumatically operated

  27. #27
    In that case, a Tippmann A5 RT is going to be the speed king unless someone brings a Q-loaded X-valve'd Mag.

    Point being, you're still going to have the ROF of 15+ bps very much achievable. Because of that, there's no reason to create these games based on limited functions when there are workarounds. If the point is to limit the ROF or paint usage, then just do that and call it a "less than 10 bps" game or "200-rounds" game instead of a "mech-only" game.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Justus
    In that case, a Tippmann A5 RT is going to be the speed king unless someone brings a Q-loaded X-valve'd Mag.

    Point being, you're still going to have the ROF of 15+ bps very much achievable. Because of that, there's no reason to create these games based on limited functions when there are workarounds. If the point is to limit the ROF or paint usage, then just do that and call it a "less than 10 bps" game or "200-rounds" game instead of a "mech-only" game.
    But Q-loaders suck so bad. They're finicky, unreliable, fragile, hard on paint, a pain to reload both on-gun and also between games, and their capacity is too limited.

    Basically, everything we've read about the Q-loader from really skilled operators.

    So they really should be no threat in a mech-only game.

    Amirite?



    Edit: I went fishing around for some A5 gameplay videos as it's been one of those curiosities for me and ran across this little gem:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ro_IfPv1g

    Man, I would not want to face that guy on the field. No way. His A5 is AMAZING. It shoots so fast it looks like the paint is literally dripping out of his barrel.
    Last edited by GoatBoy; 11-06-2012 at 02:05 AM.

  29. #29
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    I'm not a fan of the Q, but my brother has been fiddling with his setups for a couple of years and has them dialed in really well.

    See, I thought the mech games were more interesting as an old school thing. Trying to get the Cockers, Mags and some others out of the closets and on to the fields. More of a big game style set up rather than a speedball tourney set up. As soon as I heard 3 Manxxxx I clicked the back button and moved on .

  30. #30
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    dont hit back and move on. i want input. if you dont a speedball set up then we can use a concept field a boneyard

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