View Poll Results: Should I pursue the design?

Voters
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  • Yes! And i'd probably buy one!

    10 31.25%
  • Yes.

    13 40.63%
  • No.

    5 15.63%
  • No! thats a terrible idea!

    4 12.50%
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Thread: Low Pressure Mag

  1. #1

    Low Pressure Mag

    So Im just feeling out the waters. I have a solid design for a low pressure (under 200 psi) automag valve. It would use the same on/off assembly and a similar bolt setup just optimized for high flow. The volume chamber would be larger (to make up for the drop in pressure). Finally, the regulator would be of a more traditional design so that it could be more compact and help make more room for the volume chamber.

    If it works, it has the potential to give the Automag the one thing it was missing, efficiency. It would also have a much lighter trigger pull, and with the ULE trigger kit, would probably have under a 10 oz pull.

    Should I pursue the design? Any other suggestions? Would you buy one over an X valve?

  2. #2
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    i voted.

    i would say if you can get it to work, and work right, and is done right. go for it.
    other wise no thats a terrible idea.
    My sydarm weighs less than yours!!!

  3. #3
    As long as it would work with a level 10 bolt.

  4. #4
    No, it wouldn't use the lvl 10, that's the thing, it would be an entirely new valve, new reg, new bolt etc. The only parts retained would be the on/off assembly.
    Last edited by FPSmaniac152; 01-29-2013 at 05:26 AM.

  5. #5
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    This sounds difficult. I hope to see it done but I am worried about whether it will have anti-chop and how its recharge rate will be. But if you succeed then this will be a great advancement in technology in AO.

  6. #6
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    sounds like another attempt at a smart mag...


    make it low pressure and preform like an X-valve and youll be golden. What have you got to loose besides time and money

    To leave feedback: Click seller/buyers name, Click feedback score, Click leave feedback

  7. #7
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    Will it be capable of RTing? If not, it will lessen the appeal for many. Removing the Lvl10 will make others shy away. It will have to have to be capable of keeping up with a 20bps recharge rate to keep the EgoMag guys happy. I can definitely see Pumpers having an interest in this, especially if it's aluminim. Cost is also going to be a major factor. I think more specs on what it will do, what it's capable of and what it will cost are necessary before an accurate vote can really be taken.

    IMO, if you are looking at a $300 valve that is not capable of RTing, doesnt have levelX and doesnt have a reasonable recharge rate, the market is going to be very limited.

    * Edit. Would also need to know whether it will work with CO2 and HPA? Some of the pumpers/stock class guys would love to have an LP valve, but its worthless if it won't run on 12ies.
    Last edited by OPBN; 01-29-2013 at 08:15 AM.

  8. #8
    It would be capable of RTing but it would be much lighter than the current RT mags due to the lower pressure. The bolt would be anti chop (much like Bob Long's pillow bolt). I don't have figures and stats yet as its all just paper so far, but as soon as I can get a working prototype I'll update with them.

    I see no reason why it wouldn't work on co2 as long as you can keep liquid out of the reg
    Last edited by FPSmaniac152; 01-29-2013 at 08:33 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    IMO, if you are looking at a $300 valve that is not capable of RTing, doesnt have levelX and doesnt have a reasonable recharge rate, the market is going to be very limited.

    * Edit. Would also need to know whether it will work with CO2 and HPA? Some of the pumpers/stock class guys would love to have an LP valve, but its worthless if it won't run on 12ies.

    this

  10. #10
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    I also think that you may have to prove some credentials before a lot of people are going to give this any serious thought. In a nutshell, yes there would be interest, but some seriously smart people put a lot of time, effort and money into designing the AGD valves and other products. It may strike some as absurd that a member who just joined the AO community less than a month ago and only has 3 posts is suddenly going to reinvent the wheel and bring to market an LP valve for the Automag.

  11. #11
    . It may strike some as absurd that a member who just joined the AO community less than a month ago and only has 3 posts is suddenly going to reinvent the wheel and bring to market an LP valve for the Automag.
    I was a member for 2 years prior but I quit for a while when I was in college, now im back and made a new profile. I've owned 6 mags over the years and I just got an engineering degree, I think I might know what Im doing.

  12. #12
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    we are not saying that you dont know what youre doing... but this website is notorious for people with empty promises

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FPSmaniac152 View Post
    I was a member for 2 years prior but I quit for a while when I was in college, now im back and made a new profile. I've owned 6 mags over the years and I just got an engineering degree, I think I might know what Im doing.
    Qualifying your post with this information probably helps. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Obviously, it can be done to some degree considering the Tippmann Phenom valve is VERY similiar to an AGD valve and runs on LP. It has been hinted at that TK may have given some input on its design.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTAutoMag View Post
    we are not saying that you dont know what youre doing... but this website is notorious for people with empty promises
    like me?

  15. #15
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    4 words...


    Venomous Designs Evolution Grips

    and other dealers who have dissappeared with products that are still selling

  16. #16
    I don't intend to create my own company if I don't have to, id rather work with AGD and let them produce it. Starting a new company these days is a horrible business plan.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FPSmaniac152 View Post
    I don't intend to create my own company if I don't have to, id rather work with AGD and let them produce it. Starting a new company these days is a horrible business plan.
    Good luck with that.

  18. #18
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    you HAVE been gone awhile

  19. #19
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    I for one like to see what you have in mind. Keep us posted.

  20. #20
    I think this would be great, if it works. like they said above, you would have to prove some
    Numbers, prototype, and field test. If it does not work for semi, still might work for pump so you still would have market.

  21. #21
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    It's could be a great concept but you'll need to trial a working prototype to prove design is sound. Can't see this getting much interest until that happens. The low pressure/efficiency will appeal more to semi shooters than pumps.. unless it's possible to get a higher 12g shot count. Generally CO2 doesn't perform well at low pressure/high volume so I can't see that working. Pumpers wouldn't shoot enough to worry about running out of air, and it's certainly never been a problem for me. It would also need to be compatible with existing Magpump kits to make it cost effective. The high pressure operation on mag valves can be a pain. It won't let you shoot very far into a tank fill and limits your shot capacity, so the low pressure operation will be a bonus there. The BL pillow bolt isn't an anti chop system like level 10, just a soft nosed bolt to help prevent breaks. So I can see that being a disadvantage to RT's at high ROF, and may force you to run eyes to avoid chopping.
    Last edited by GEE TEE; 01-29-2013 at 03:23 PM.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GEE TEE View Post
    It's could be a great concept but you'll need to trial a working prototype to prove design is sound. Can't see this getting much interest until that happens. The low pressure/efficiency will appeal more to semi shooters than pumps.. unless it's possible to get a higher 12g shot count. Generally CO2 doesn't perform well at low pressure/high volume so I can't see that working. Pumpers wouldn't shoot enough to worry about running out of air, and it's certainly never been a problem for me. It would also need to be compatible with existing Magpump kits to make it cost effective. The high pressure operation on mag valves can be a pain. It won't let you shoot very far into a tank fill and limits your shot capacity, so the low pressure operation will be a bonus there. The BL pillow bolt isn't an anti chop system like level 10, just a soft nosed bolt to help prevent breaks. So I can see that being a disadvantage to RT's at high ROF, and may force you to run eyes to avoid chopping.
    Noted, very good suggestions, thank you.

  23. #23
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    hasn't this been tried before

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by maniacmechanic View Post
    hasn't this been tried before
    Quite possibly, I cannot however remember when, who etc.

  25. #25
    Ok, so I just worked out some of the input you guys gave, it WOULD work with a lvl 10, BUT you would need a lower power spring and the pressure needed to cycle it would be higher nontheless (about 200psi). The bolt I had in mind however was very similar but was in fact designed to deliver a much larger volume of gas at once while still being a gradual lead on to full blow (for fragile paint). As a result it would use a lower pressure (if math serves me right about 180 psi). It would still be tunable like the lvl 10 and would retain a foamie likely of the same design as the lvl 10. Ill put up a poll later on to see what everyone wants in that regard.

    If you wanted to use Co2 in it it would work unmodified however with an expansion chamber. If liquid got into the gun you would have the same problem as classic mags. I may design an insert for the volume chamber to optimize it for 12gs. (Lower the volume, raise the pressure)

    It would also work with current pump mods out because the dimensions would remain unchanged, but I was thinking of making a kit to go with it as an option when you buy one. It would include a pre milled rail if that were the case.
    The Maniac Inside

  26. #26
    If you are gonna go balls to the wall you may as well redesign the bolt completely, like 2 piece delrin/ stainless back. rebuildable front section for any mishaps with the delrin. With LP using delrin shouldnt be a problem like the old two piecers were... at least thats what I'd imagine?

    I know this is pretty early on, but may hault anything other than a one off for yourself to tinker with.. realistically what would you want for said valve? X-valves are what, $275 or so new? Anything much higher than that and id personally rather run an HP tank and refill it for free 10 times in a day (after you pay your $5 air fee of course) than run LP and refill it only 8 times.

    It is very interesting dont get me wrong. But you gotta remember your time/ money/ testing/ multiple failures in this, plus AGD didnt get going over night... My mag back in 2000 was almost $300 with no barrel, asa, anything... just a mag... by the time I finished it with inflation and parts costs today, thats pretty much like a completely pimped out x valved pneumag.

    Im not completely negative at all, but ive been "that sucker" who pays for nice one off items over the internet, and doesnt see his money or product after 6 months and disputes that drag on forever.

  27. #27
    Firstly, I see no real advantage in using delrin on the bolt other than reducing weight. It would however introduce durability issues as you mentioned. If there is a notable difference in performance I may offer it as an upgrade, but to include it stock would only serve to drive the price up.

    As for cost, I haven't the slightest idea what it would retail for.

  28. #28
    Wouldn't less weight =less pressure/ forces to move it? I don't have an engineering degree or anything, but I thought that's how stuff worked.

  29. #29
    While this is true, it is my belief that the difference in pressure wouldn't be worth the loss in durability. Later on ill do more math etc. and may come out with an upgrade bolt kit. Right now im trying to keep it simple, remember, this is an automag were talking about, not a superlight hyper performance speedball gun.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by FPSmaniac152 View Post
    this is an automag were talking about, not a superlight hyper performance speedball gun.

    you can build one of these out of an automag

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