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Thread: Fully pneumatic production marker?

  1. #1
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    Fully pneumatic production marker?

    Been fiddling around with my pneuMag setups over the past couple of weeks. Still tweaking, but getting close where I want to be on them. I starting thinking about it though, and was wondering why are there no fully pneumatic production markers out there? Or are there and I am not aware of them? If I understand properly an AC is pneu assist, but still essentially a sear tripper right? Has it not been pursued due to the ease of using electronics? Seems like there would be a niche market for such a thing. And not something retrofitted, but an actal marker designed from the ground up.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Nova, Enmey



    oooo how I miss Novas

    Edit: I would love to see a full pnuemag production model

    To leave feedback: Click seller/buyers name, Click feedback score, Click leave feedback

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    Ok, cool. Never heard of the nova.
    Last edited by OPBN; 02-08-2013 at 03:18 PM.

  4. #4
    Not the Envy, the eNMy or something like that. I would personally love to see BL somehow make his MVP pump into a mech-pneumatic marker.


  5. #5
    I was doing some fiddling myself about a year ago and came up on a build idea myself. Ive yet to start it, but I've accumulated most of the parts. I'm gonna replace the hammer in the lower tube of a cocker bodied pump with a mpa3 ram. My only concern is if I can get the operating pressure of the valve within the capable range of the ram to open it properly. Not sure if this is what you were looking for. It would be somewhat of a pneumatic replacement for an mq setup. Which if I'm thinking correctly isn't pneumatic at all.

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    ^^ Thats not production. Enmey sounds like what I was thinking of, but doesnt look like it comes with a double trigger, so still not the end result I would want. And guessing even if they did come out with a double, with 1lb force required, it woud not be walkable.

    Maybe I should be more clear. Why hasnt anyone come out with a walkable fully pneumatic production marker?

  7. #7
    Yeah, it's a start. Would almost be a fun toy to pick up and screw around with. Might be interesting to see if DW comes up with any bodies/frames for the thing, though.

  8. #8
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    i own an enmey and they are titts!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    ^^ Thats not production. Enmey sounds like what I was thinking of, but doesnt look like it comes with a double trigger, so still not the end result I would want. And guessing even if they did come out with a double, with 1lb force required, it woud not be walkable.

    Maybe I should be more clear. Why hasnt anyone come out with a walkable fully pneumatic production marker?
    Sorry, missed the production part of it. I guess you could find the answer after answering another question. Why did it take so long for someone to build a pneumag to begin with? Evolution comes in steps. TK and AGD were one of the few to ever skip steps in that regard. Pioneers don't create what we use now. They create what others base their products off of. Sorry, went a bit long with that.

  10. #10
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    ^^ not sure I get your point. All I am asking is why no one has come out with a walkable fully pneumatic marker? I don't care if its a Mag or not. The Enmey is close, but not quite there. Seems doable.

  11. #11
    My point is, that the pneumag hasn't been around for a long time when you consider the age of the marker. It is a fantastic modification. But, still a relatively new idea. Its gonna take time for that to gravitate over to other production models. How often does a truly new technology or idea ever come out? Year after year, manufacturers release a new product that can hardly be called new. Visually, it maybe slightly different but not groundbreaking. Production, markers are just now really breaking into air-thru frames. This will be almost mandatory for a fully pneumatic marker. My opinion, but I don't see people flocking to a "new" marker that has a lpr hanging off the side of an asa.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dboggs79 View Post
    My point is, that the pneumag hasn't been around for a long time when you consider the age of the marker. It is a fantastic modification. But, still a relatively new idea. Its gonna take time for that to gravitate over to other production models. How often does a truly new technology or idea ever come out? Year after year, manufacturers release a new product that can hardly be called new. Visually, it maybe slightly different but not groundbreaking. Production, markers are just now really breaking into air-thru frames. This will be almost mandatory for a fully pneumatic marker. My opinion, but I don't see people flocking to a "new" marker that has a lpr hanging off the side of an asa.
    First, Pneumags have been around since at least 05 or earlier if I am not mistaken. I know there were production frames offered in 07 offered by an aftermarket company, so I am assuming home jobs predated this by at least a few years if not more. And this has really nothing to do with my question. I'm not asking about a production Pneumag offered by AGD since that will NEVER happen. I am wondering why no one has ever produced any fully pnuematic marker of any sort. Obviously, I was wrong is thinking they hadn't as evidenced by the Enmey. However, this still doesn't add up to a walkable pnuematic triggered marker. The technology of pneumatic triggers really isn't new. Heck Autocockers utilized 3 ways an such.

    And a fully pneumatic marker wouldn't have to have an LPR hanging off it, especially if it was designed from the ground up. Heck, neither of my pneumags has an LPR hanging off the side for that matter and they are obviously retrofits. The Enmey doesnt have one either and if the retards at GOG can figure it out, I am sure much smarter people than them should be able to come up with something awesome.

    I have a feeling the answer lies in the ease of doing the same thing easier with electronics and the precision that would be possibly required for such a marker. Also, a fully pneumatic frame can't be capped, nor could it have competed in the unlimited BPS wars that ensued over the past 10+ years. I would venture a guess that fully pneumatic systems would also simply be too complex for most 13 year olds wanting to spray 25bps right out of the box.
    Last edited by OPBN; 02-08-2013 at 01:46 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    The Enmey doesnt have one either and if the retards at GOG can figure it out, I am sure much smarter people than them should be able to come up with something awesome.
    the foregrip is the LPR, the entire gun works at 190 PSI

  14. #14
    That's what I'm saying. It took atleast the better part of two decades for the pneumag to arrive after the first mags were produced. The three way on a cocker has nothing to do with the triggers function, its just for chambering the next ball. I think you are on the right track when it comes to not being able to cap a pneu'd trigger and ease of use of electronics. Even if that weren't the issue, im just saying the pneumatic trigger, as used in a similar fashion to the pneumag, is relatively new. Seven or eight years doesn't, in my opinion, make for old technology in a sport that is thirty years old. Especially when being compared to marker manufacturing progress as a whole in that time period. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, just looking at it from a different perspective I guess.

  15. #15
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    I guess too that the Automag design problaby lends itself more to a pneumatic setup than some other markers. Anyone ever tried a PneuSpyder?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    Also, a fully pneumatic frame can't be capped, nor could it have competed in the unlimited BPS wars that ensued over the past 10+ years. I would venture a guess that fully pneumatic systems would also simply be too complex for most 13 year olds wanting to spray 25bps right out of the box.
    Add rate of fire to your criteria. When you say "nor could it have competed", do mean they were not capable or not allowed? Pneus do take a lot of effort to run in the teens, but for RT's that's cruising altitude.

    There was some discussion about GoG trying to use a double trigger on the enmy. The vibe and enmy rate of fire goes along with the "soft" bolt stroke and low pressure. They are strangely unlike an ion, in that there is not a lot you can do to them practically as modifications.

    The nice part about electronics is that you can use the same marker as the players and insurance companies change their minds. Sometimes they want a hard rate limit, or you can't play with that particular marker. If I tune a mechanical marker to be capable of 14 bps, I may be out of luck even though it doesn't have an LPR. On the other hand, you can build 10,000 electronic boards, connect them to off-the-shelf solenoids for pretty cheap, and still be confident that you can cap the ROF where you want. Can you imagine the mess if you wanted to ship 10,000 Tippmann F/As?

    My RTs liked 15 bps pretty well. As it is, I have to be careful with my RT setups to stay below 13 bps. At least the chronographs are pretty good with rate measurements.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW View Post
    Add rate of fire to your criteria. When you say "nor could it have competed", do mean they were not capable or not allowed? Pneus do take a lot of effort to run in the teens, but for RT's that's cruising altitude.
    .
    I'm saying its not possible for the average Joe to acheive much above 12bps with a strictly pneumatic frame and would have gotten lost in the shuffle with electros putting out 20bps+. Since I'm not talking about Mags here, RTing doesnt enter into the discussion.

    Also not debating need for excessive high ROF, just stating a fact that in a competition for ROF, an Electro is going to win every time.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    I'm saying its not possible for the average Joe to acheive much above 12bps with a strictly pneumatic frame and would have gotten lost in the shuffle with electros putting out 20bps+. Since I'm not talking about Mags here, RTing doesnt enter into the discussion.

    Also not debating need for excessive high ROF, just stating a fact that in a competition for ROF, an Electro is going to win every time.
    So if you had a production pneumatic marker, how fast do you want it to shoot?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW View Post
    So if you had a production pneumatic marker, how fast do you want it to shoot?
    ? Speed would be determined by the ability of the shooter of course. It just needs to be walkable. Easily.

  20. #20
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    so... 30bps?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTAutoMag View Post
    so... 30bps?
    On a strictly pneumatic marker? That would be absurd.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    On a strictly pneumatic marker? That would be absurd.
    Lol, yes it is. Those would be some pretty quick fingers. Ive hit twenty in uncapped semi, but no way could I sustain that. I can't imagine anyone hitting 30 much else even coming close to sustaining a rate like that. We are talking a pneu, no RT or batteries.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dboggs79 View Post
    Lol, yes it is. Those would be some pretty quick fingers. Ive hit twenty in uncapped semi, but no way could I sustain that. I can't imagine anyone hitting 30 much else even coming close to sustaining a rate like that. We are talking a pneu, no RT or batteries.
    Your girlfriend would be estatic though.....

    Somehow we have veered off course. You can't determine a ROF on a pneu only frame. It would be up to the individuals skill. Also, I am not saying high ROF is better, I am simply asking why does no one offer a truly walkable pneumatic only production marker? The technology should be there... My own answer to myself is that perhaps the idea wasnt pursued heavily since an electro can be made easier and probably cheaper and acheive a higher rof so it wasnt deemed worth it. Also not being able to cap it, would make it somewhat difficult to use at the tourney level which in turn would make it not very desireable etc, etc.
    Last edited by OPBN; 02-08-2013 at 03:42 PM.

  24. #24
    The technology is, but is the need? It wouldn't really have any benefit over any other marker currently being produced. Other than not having to change batteries. The cost of retooling and manufacturing wouldn't be made up. I can't see it anyhow.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dboggs79 View Post
    The technology is, but is the need? It wouldn't really have any benefit over any other marker currently being produced. Other than not having to change batteries. The cost of retooling and manufacturing wouldn't be made up. I can't see it anyhow.
    I kind of disagree. I think it would be appealing to some. Probably not the majority that want to to be able to flip a switch and go full auto, but I think if it was reliable and well built it would be appealing to enough people to garner a following. Getting it to be tourney legal would possibly be a hurdle.

    And if it were a ground up build, there would be no retooling necessary.

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by need4reebs View Post
    some patent had a part in this
    Source?

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    Quote Originally Posted by need4reebs View Post
    some patent had a part in this
    I'm surprised Forrest and Tracy haven't delivered those Gardner dicks a C&D yet.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    Source?
    the G-Force threads as well as some older pneumag threads
    Last edited by need4reebs; 02-08-2013 at 10:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by need4reebs View Post
    the G-Force threads as well as some older pneumag threads
    Which is all Armson/Benchmark/PTP property.

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