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Thread: Aluminum Classic Valve

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    How did you come up with this #? He made no implications of even making the cap, he said "I will make the valve section and let people finish them off themselves"

    That means until it gets clarified, you have to use your reg back... so take 5.8 oz of stainless, and minus 3.7 oz that an xvalve weighs (assuming it weighs the same) thats 2 oz.

    I reffered to opbn as being about the only one to see real savings if he used his cap on this... my math is based on the fact XMT has not said he is making caps, at all
    (The weight of the classic reg + the difference of weights of classic and aluminum valve bodies without bolts) - the weight of a reg that screws into the asa.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    And I was thinking the 7000 series aluminum was more expensive than that black
    I was thinking for the 3 inch chunk to do just the front half. And it may be. Never priced solid bar in the stuff. The whole point of that was a blanket. Material is expensive! Let alone the guys development time. And production time. I would venture to say making a mag trigger frame is easier work than the valve. Less spec you have to work with.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnage reigns View Post
    (The weight of the classic reg + the difference of weights of classic and aluminum valve bodies without bolts) - the weight of a reg that screws into the asa.
    WHAT? this is valve only.... because you have ZERO confirmation of ANY caps being made... that really made no sense, its only the difference between a loaded valve front and a loaded valve front, which opbn gave values for... wow...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnage reigns View Post
    I'm gonna say about 7oz when it's all said and done vs. a classic valve. I think this idea is golden.
    I actually sat and swapped around parts. For MY application, it is only a weight savings of 3 ozs or so. For anyone else wanting to do a similiar capped valve, external reg setup it is a total saving of about 9.1oz. So just over 1/2 a pound*.

    *Based on the setup I have pictured earlier -3 ozs vs removing the reg and adding a foregrip and putting a full SS Classic valve on the marker.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    I was thinking for the 3 inch chunk to do just the front half. And it may be. Never priced solid bar in the stuff. The whole point of that was a blanket. Material is expensive! Let alone the guys development time. And production time. I would venture to say making a mag trigger frame is easier work than the valve. Less spec you have to work with.
    I did a tiny search, most online suppliers didnt even carry al higher than 6160- t6

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    WHAT? this is valve only.... because you have ZERO confirmation of ANY caps being made... that really made no sense, its only the difference between a loaded valve front and a loaded valve front, which opbn gave values for... wow...
    Caps are very easilly made. I have already contacted DM to see if he is up to making a run. If not, I am willing to send one of my caps to someone to replicate. Or it would be very easy for someone to come up with one.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    Caps are very easilly made. I have already contacted DM to see if he is up to making a run. If not, I am willing to send one of my caps to someone to replicate. Or it would be very easy for someone to come up with one.
    Well if you get some made, Ill take a cap

    Im not trying to be a dick or argue a bunch btw, people are just assuming information without facts from XMT, which is silly

  8. #68
    FWIW:






    If you commission another run of caps, please put a 1/8 NPT hole on the back for a gauge.
    "Accuracy by aiming."


    Definitely not on the A-Team.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    WHAT? this is valve only.... because you have ZERO confirmation of ANY caps being made... that really made no sense, its only the difference between a loaded valve front and a loaded valve front, which opbn gave values for... wow...
    Deus Machina made caps so the can be found. And no need for the caps. I read whole sentences.

  10. #70
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    Actually, I am wondering if for people wanting to use it in a capped setup if there isn't a cheaper way to machine this without having to make a "cap"? Any input Jay?

  11. #71
    Once again.... I said this when XMT said "they make aluminum regs so I dont need to make them, people can find them all over for cheap". ok, where? how long do I wait for a used one... does that make sense?

    You are saying the exact same thing about reg caps... They "were" made, in the past. People now own those caps, and probably use and wont sell them... but they are around, so find me a handful, or 50 to sell with these...

    This whole threads been built around assumptions

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoatBoy View Post

    If you commission another run of caps, please put a 1/8 NPT hole on the back for a gauge.
    You mean like this:

    stuff 003.jpg

  13. #73
    Can the caps be made smooth? Basically like there is no transition from the valve to the cap, I like the gauge look too.
    Last edited by Cokrkilr; 03-20-2013 at 02:54 PM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    You mean like this:

    stuff 003.jpg
    Now I like that.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    Can the caps be made smooth? Like basically like there is no transition from the valve to the cap, I like the gauge look too.
    Yes, Check my earlier pic.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    Actually, I am wondering if for people wanting to use it in a capped setup if there isn't a cheaper way to machine this without having to make a "cap"? Any input Jay?
    Thinking outside the box! Could do it as a strate through. Dump chamber in the front. Npt in the back. No threads for a reg or anything. Could be short and sweet. There is actually some sculpting he could do also to make them more desire able to the custom guys.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    Now I like that.
    Thanks.

    pumpmag 001.jpg

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    Thinking outside the box! Could do it as a strate through. Dump chamber in the front. Npt in the back. No threads for a reg or anything. Could be short and sweet. There is actually some sculpting he could do also to make them more desire able to the custom guys.
    Similiar to what I was thinking. Your way sounds easier. I do wonder if getting rid of the area between the valve and the cap would require higher input pressure? Its not a large area, but wonder if it would make a difference?
    Last edited by OPBN; 03-20-2013 at 03:18 PM.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    Yes, Check my earlier pic.
    I did go back to it but couldn't fully tell if it was smooth, the pic was small on my phone... but thanks for clarifying.

    And yes, both those builds are sweet with those caps!

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    Similiar to what I was thinking. Your way sounds easier.

    Only issue with my way is no gauge on the back. I would love to have one with a classic rt banjo bolt fitting for a project I've been thinking about for a one off light stream lined automag. This would save me from putting a classic valve in a mill at work. So I am interested in this project as a hole.

  21. #81
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    How would this effect input pressure. Would we still need over 800 psi? And why would we need it? I don't know exactly how everything works I just know that it does.

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    Only issue with my way is no gauge on the back. I would love to have one with a classic rt banjo bolt fitting for a project I've been thinking about for a one off light stream lined automag. This would save me from putting a classic valve in a mill at work. So I am interested in this project as a hole.
    Why no guage on the back? I see people putting guages on there vert ASAs. Isnt this the same concept?

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnage reigns View Post
    How would this effect input pressure. Would we still need over 800 psi? And why would we need it? I don't know exactly how everything works I just know that it does.
    I'm not an airsmith, so I don't really know if it would or not. There is some open area inside the cap. I wasnt sure if this acted like a volume chamber. There is some formula for figuring this out. Either way, it wouldn't think it would require that much higher input. But I really don't know. My thinking that you already have the are between the VASA and valve and since the center air passage is now 1/8" instead of the 1/16 or so that it is now, it would make up for any volume lost. Currently my setup is requiring about 575 psi or so from the inline reg to get FPS in the proper range.

  24. #84
    Still need 600-650 psi to properly work the on off, that's what I was getting at earlier with regs being good or not... most only go to 400-500 psi (CP, dye)

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    Still need 600-650 psi to properly work the on off, that's what I was getting at earlier with regs being good or not... most only go to 400-500 psi (CP, dye)
    Ok so Palmer's High Pressure, got it.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnage reigns View Post
    Ok so Palmer's High Pressure, got it.
    What I have is a older AKA Sidewinder. An AKA 2K+ I beleive will work as well. Has to be the "+". On the pump pictured I am using a Bob Long reg. I think its a Torpedo, but it looks different than the other ones I have seen. But basically, yeah you would need a 650-700psi output regulator.

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    What I have is a older AKA Sidewinder. An AKA 2K+ I beleive is the higher pressure as well. Has to be the "+". On the pump pictured I am using a Bob Long reg. I think its a Torpedo, but it looks different than the other ones I have seen. But basically, yeah you would need a 650-700psi output regulator.
    Never knew the name of the reg but I always have liked the look of the sidewinder (just googled). That may be the one I pick up.
    Last edited by Carnage reigns; 03-20-2013 at 03:55 PM.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    Why no guage on the back? I see people putting guages on there vert ASAs. Isnt this the same concept?
    Well if it was a strait through design there wouldn't be anywhere for one. But if it still had a side port for the fitting then you could still have the gauge on the back. Or as I would like. A banjo bolt. Convert a newer rt rail to be gas through. And still have a gauge on the back.

  29. #89
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    The output of any regulator, valve mounted or forgrip, needs to be high enough to charge the front chamber with the pressure you need to operate your particular setup at the desired velocity. If you run a heavily ported barrel with a short control bore and a stiff level 10 bolt setup, that pressure could be fairly high (550psi or more). You would still need 800psi or more feeding the regulator that is feeding the modified regulator-less AGD valve.

    The main problem here is that some tournament operators are confusing retro valves with reactive valves. Yes, retro valves can be made to be reactive, but so can almost any other marker on the market. If it wasn't for the general ignorance of the tournament operators, then any retro valve that was set up for normal 1 shot per pull operation could be used at any field at any time. Luckily, it is only a small number of fields that hold this point of view. Unfortunately, you only hear about the few that do which further propagates the negative point of view.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    Well if it was a strait through design there wouldn't be anywhere for one. But if it still had a side port for the fitting then you could still have the gauge on the back. Or as I would like. A banjo bolt. Convert a newer rt rail to be gas through. And still have a gauge on the back.
    Oh you are talking about getting rid of the side input? Yeah, no thanks on that. I would still want a side input. I was thinking just boring that through so that it hit the center passage which would now be 1/8" or so and just using a gauge or plug to plug up the back.

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