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Thread: Aluminum Classic Valve

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyJay View Post
    This is my cap'd valve and I think it works great. Deus polished it and tapped the back per my request. I would like to see a valve made with this style cap built in as a solid unit.

    No that is a truly "Micro" Mag. I'm assuming the velocity adjusting is done at the tank reg then? What reg do you have on it? What do you have the output set at?

    This has me interested in the capped valve. Not just for looks and size reduction but to simplify. Just one reg. Anyone want to make a "Cap" that acts as an inline ASA? Just screw the tank right into the back of the valve!

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    In my opinion, this thread needs to die and a poll needs to be taken. I really only see one main person, and couple others with their toes in the water on "wanting" this done... that's 3/50, that doesn't pay the bills...
    XMT said for what we were looking to get done, only 12 or so would need to be built.

    Quote Originally Posted by XMT
    I dont have an exact price in my head. i would think the front half of the valve could be made and sold at $100 even if atleast 12 people would take one. TK said i could make up to 50 of them.

    Jay
    Regarding price. My thought is, if we are subtantially simplifying this by eliminating having to thread the back end and reducing air passages, that pricing should be better. I suck at MS paint or I would diagram this out. But I think where we are at is basically the bolt area being identical to a Classic other than possibly having the PT threading being different. The On/off would be the same, but the input would be drilled farther in so that a central air passageway from the back to the on/off would be drilled.

    A further thought came to me though, there could be an optional input cut all the way through, or for that matter reversed. You could essentially have a "t" in the middle that would allow for a range of setups.
    Last edited by OPBN; 03-22-2013 at 09:30 AM.

  3. #123
    I think you'd have major issues with the tank right off the valve, like bolt stick, not much support after you cut the rail and frame down, possible snapped off field strip screws... it would be cool for that sniper look with a 13ci tank or something, maybe on a pump, I just don't see it being reliable with anything larger.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    XMT said for what we were looking to get done, only 12 or so would need to be built.
    Yeah, I read that. That still only leaves about 3 people though, price dependant...

    So just to open up another can of worms on this, and potentially open this up to more than just a "classic" valve front. What would it take to make this a universal front? You could have the option to have the classic semi auto fire, or the bounce if you wanted to set it up rt?

    Would it still even work as normal rt being capped then externally regulated?

  5. #125
    Basically like a micro x valve, some assembly required

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    Yeah, I read that. That still only leaves about 3 people though, price dependant...

    So just to open up another can of worms on this, and potentially open this up to more than just a "classic" valve front. What would it take to make this a universal front? You could have the option to have the classic semi auto fire, or the bounce if you wanted to set it up rt?

    Would it still even work as normal rt being capped then externally regulated?
    I think I have seen that the RT only works because of the on board regulator.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    XMT said for what we were looking to get done, only 12 or so would need to be built.



    Regarding price. My thought is, if we are subtantially simplifying this by eliminating having to thread the back end and reducing air passages, that pricing should be better. I suck at MS paint or I would diagram this out. But I think where we are at is basically the bolt area being identical to a Classic other than possibly having the PT threading being different. The On/off would be the same, but the input would be drilled farther in so that a central air passageway from the back to the on/off would be drilled.

    A further thought came to me though, there could be an optional input cut all the way through, or for that matter reversed. You could essentially have a "t" in the middle that would allow for a range of setups.

    I catch what your throwing down I have understood all the design changes throughout this thread. And the air port drilled straight thru would be a pretty cool feature, you could do the input left or right then a micro gauge etc etc...

    I'm not trying to kill the thread or anyone's dreams of this, there just has to be some voice of reason saying "who's really going to buy all these"... 3 people

    Still, price dependent... until he cads this and finds the correct aluminum and shaves one down he still doesn't know 100%. That's all I'm getting at.

    For perspective, I wanted a custom rail done, I was told no because to keep it even under $200 per rail id have to find more people than he thought would buy it... and that was just a rail. To be made out of any type of cheaper aluminum and whatever else.

  8. #128
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    For $100 or so? I'm down! And I don't need it to be a complete valve. I just need the front, keep the bolt of the x-valve I have, I will buy a cap from whoever is producing them, the pick up a reg for the front and presto, we rolling.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnage reigns View Post
    For $100 or so? I'm down! And I don't need it to be a complete valve. I just need the front, I will buy a cap from whoever is producing them, the pick up a reg for the front and presto, we rolling.
    Well, technically you'll also need a x valve power tube, power tube o rings, spacers, tip, bolt, on off assembly, then you'll be rolling

    Since this is just for the front "shell" of the valve.

  10. #130
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    And how fast would the recharge be in theory? If I wanted to run a pneumag set up off of this would it be possible?

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnage reigns View Post
    And how fast would the recharge be in theory? If I wanted to run a pneumag set up off of this would it be possible?
    Isn't that going to be totally dependent on what reg you decide to use?

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnage reigns View Post
    And how fast would the recharge be in theory? If I wanted to run a pneumag set up off of this would it be possible?

    Still using a classic on off, which is the restrictor in the classic valve already.... would make it the same as a classic...

    I asked this question about 2 pages back athomas answered it

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justus View Post
    Isn't that going to be totally dependent on what reg you decide to use?
    I'm asking because I have no clue. Let's say I use a AKA sidewinder. Also if I just decided to cap my x-valve and I didn't care about the ability to RT. Could that work? What would I need besides a cap and an external reg?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnage reigns View Post
    I'm asking because I have no clue. Let's say I use a AKA sidewinder. Also if I just decided to cap my x-valve and I didn't care about the ability to RT. Could that work? What would I need besides a cap and an external reg?
    Well, in reality you can pneu the classic, same as the x or any other variant because your taking the ability to rt out of the equation... it all comes down to input pressure and human hands. The classic will arguably handle 15 bps before shootdown as is, if you can twiddle your fingers faster that's where you'd have problems. You'd most likely be chuffing and chopping by then though

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnage reigns View Post
    I'm asking because I have no clue. Let's say I use a AKA sidewinder. Also if I just decided to cap my x-valve and I didn't care about the ability to RT. Could that work? What would I need besides a cap and an external reg?
    Capping an X is more difficult. Caps can be made and honestly Deus did make some, but not sure if he is still making the X caps or not. I wasnt really interested in this as an option as I didnt want to cap a $200 valve. I used to have one that I got really cheap and was going to use that one, but after DM took 2-3 months to finally get back to me, I had decided to sell the valve and move on with some other things.

    Maybe I just need to post up a poll and see if we truly have enough takers on this as it sounds like we may be losing steam already.
    Last edited by OPBN; 03-22-2013 at 11:30 AM.

  16. #136
    I think the idea of caps may still be there, but this whole front business only had a puff of steam to start with

    And I agree about capping the x valve, you bought it cuz it's an x valve and for the super fast recharge already built into it.

    The cap could sell because it shaves 7oz+/- of the back and makes the marker more sleek looking. Almost like its not a mag anymore...

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    I think the idea of caps may still be there, but this whole front business only had a puff of steam to start with
    Could care less about caps. I already have mostly what I need on those and can get one or two from DM if needed. I disagree about a puff as I am counting 4-5 people that seemed basically on board and I was considering taking 2, so that put us about 1/2 way there and thats after 1 day or so.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    Well, in reality you can pneu the classic, same as the x or any other variant because your taking the ability to rt out of the equation... it all comes down to input pressure and human hands. The classic will arguably handle 15 bps before shootdown as is, if you can twiddle your fingers faster that's where you'd have problems. You'd most likely be chuffing and chopping by then though
    You don't have to shoot 16 balls in a second to have this problem. You just need to try to shoot 2 balls in 0.07 seconds. Then you short stroke and blow up the next ball in the barrel.

  19. #139
    OK, you have what you need, what about the other 11 people?

    Id just post a poll. But before you do that id get a dead set price from xmt and a final design (if your going to.go with caps or unthreaded)

    Otherwise that's going to end up like this thread too

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by pgop2.0 View Post
    You don't have to shoot 16 balls in a second to have this problem. You just need to try to shoot 2 balls in 0.07 seconds. Then you short stroke and blow up the next ball in the barrel.
    All the more reason for you to make an electro frame for us short stroke solved...

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    OK, you have what you need, what about the other 11 people?
    XMT said he would/can make caps so if thats what people want, let it go that direction. I had a project or two that I would use the valve body in, but if it doesnt come to fruition I'll just nix the projects and move on.

  22. #142
    Id just get with XMT. Find out the price on the power tube, or if they are even available. Or if you have to make one valve useless and unsellable to make another one work (i know some of you dont care either way, but if you have to use the x valve power tube that could be an expensive useless valve).

    Then the design. Threaded regular valve back and capped, or solid? The threaded back would make more sense if someone didnt want to use an external reg and just slap the classic valve back on it. Then you run into stainless again, cant anno match it, square one. So does he make the aluminum regs too? now cost goes up (x valve pricing here).

    I know you have your project. And thats yours... not everybody will want this for the same thing, just like everybody customizes their mag in their own way.

    Seems like many many unknowns, and still, the final price on a complete product.

    Edit: Also, approaching 1200 views I'd say most of the active AO community has seen this thread (lets be honest, not a whole lot has been going on lately).... Id say your list is what youve got now. Unless something completely innovative comes out of this.

    Edit#2. After thinking about it more, I don't think the correct air passages for the on off could.be made without doing it from the back, meaning the one piece design is potentially out?
    Last edited by Cokrkilr; 03-22-2013 at 02:20 PM.

  23. #143
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    AKA and Palmers regs are aluminum as are most inlines.

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    Thanks for the input. Some of us want this for other purposes. If you're not interested, cool. No need to spend your efforts trying to kill a project that others may want.


    Neat!

    If this was started as your or XMT's project thread to actually produce them, you're right, I wouldn't use my energy to detract from making a product. But the original point of the thread was about why AGD never made aluminum classic valves and because the UWL supposedly doesn't allow X valves. It wasn't for your personal endeavors.

    But thanks for your input!

  25. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    AKA and Palmers regs are aluminum as are most inlines.
    OK? Where did this come from?

    If it was about the stainless part of my post, its clearly written and ill write it again in different wording . If someone wanted to use this mod to anodize but not run an external reg, like aka or Palmer or any other aluminum one... then they would have to use their stainless agd reg back, thus throwing off the ability to anodize the valve to color match. So is he going to make reg backs as an option too? Since already made aluminum reg backs are not as plentiful as people have made them out to be.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokrkilr View Post
    OK? Where did this come from?

    If it was about the stainless part of my post, its clearly written and ill write it again in different wording . If someone wanted to use this mod to anodize but not run an external reg, like aka or Palmer or any other aluminum one... then they would have to use their stainless agd reg back, thus throwing off the ability to anodize the valve to color match. So is he going to make reg backs as an option too? Since already made aluminum reg backs are not as plentiful as people have made them out to be.
    I was on my way out of the door and read quickly through your post. Maybe I misread it. IMO, it makes zero sense to produce a full valve due to overall cost, but if someone is willing to buy them, I'm sure XMT will make them. Maybe the capped/threaded route is what people want. If so, cool.

  27. #147
    What happened to.the discussion thread, got deleted already?

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    Maybe the capped/threaded route is what people want. If so, cool.
    Not me. Not for the expense. Only way I'm considering this is if it is a compact front half only in a small package. Other than that. I will just take an old classic valve to a mill and lathe at work. And this is all still dependent on overall cost and how my petty cash is sitting when it even goes up for order.

    Would have posted this in the link. But it doesn't seam to be there.

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by zondo View Post


    Neat!

    If this was started as your or XMT's project thread to actually produce them, you're right, I wouldn't use my energy to detract from making a product. But the original point of the thread was about why AGD never made aluminum classic valves and because the UWL supposedly doesn't allow X valves. It wasn't for your personal endeavors.

    But thanks for your input!
    In a nutshell. AGD didn't make them because they didn't feel it was a cost effective project. Heck. I wonder what year all the al xvalves and mags were created that are still for sale new now.

  30. #150
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    XMT if you do decide to do an X-Valve cap I would be all in for that. I'm also in on the classic valve front half. Either way achieves what I'm trying to do.

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