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Thread: Emag won't shoot in electro mode

  1. #1

    Emag won't shoot in electro mode

    First of all, I am using a classic valve with level x tuned for a different body/rail/grip. But the emag valve needs a complete rebuild, guy obviously used co2 and turned all the orings into goop.

    So here's what is happening. Using two fresh nine volts together in a series, (18.5 volts), the board boots up. Heck, the marker even pulls the solenoid down if you push the solenoid up, when the gun isn't aired up.

    That's as far as we get for the good. Wen the gun is in electro mode, once I pull the trigger the board goes blank. And when the gun is aired up the solenoid does nothing. The hall sensor appears to work, as the board will not turn on when the trigger is pulled back. With the trigger forward, the board will blink the pixel. With the trigger pulled back, the pixel does not blink.

    The trigger pull also seems to be rather heavy when the gun is in manual. Manipulating the sear when the gun is not aired up is also similarly stiff.


    Can anyone please help me with this major problem?


    Here's a picture of the board and noid,


    http://imgur.com/lY9YC7T

    Here's a picture of the selector switch from the top, in case that matters.

    http://imgur.com/Emknp6S

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Minnesotaaaah
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    812
    Do you hear the noid attempt to click when it's aired up? Have you broken this thing down yet to give it a deep clean and to check for damage?

  3. #3
    No and no. Guess I will

    I was really worried about messing up the timing. What should I not unscrew?

    edit: also, what would damage look like.

    The noid DID click when the gun was not aired up, and the plunger in the noid was moved up, and then the trigger was pulled. It did pull the plunger down.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Minnesotaaaah
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    812
    I'm not sure emag lowers have the oomph needed to cycle a classic valve... Perhaps someone with more experience could confirm or dispel that?

  5. #5
    I got the sear assembly out. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking for. There is some crap on it. I cleaned it.

    Now here is where it gets interesting.

    Without the gun being aired up, the solenoid vigorously clicks once it has been moved up. The sear assembly even moves fluidly within the solenoid. HOWEVER, once the sear is screwed into the rail, the stickiness returns.

    I am guessing that the sear assembly is slightly bent. How can I find out which direction it is bent, where it is bent, and then unbend it?

  6. #6
    With the gun aired up, the c-clip DOES rise into what I assume is the correct position. and when I pull the trigger the gun does nothing. No click. No air - solenoid clicks, quite vigorously, even with what I assume is a bend. With the gun aired up, no click.

    The solenoid does appear to work. Just not when the gun is aired up :P

  7. #7
    It's probably hard to run down because it could be multiple problems at once. First, here's a link regarding a bent sear/plunger, and how to tell: http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/xmag...eshooting.html (Look at the very bottom of that page).

    Next, sQuid is right, if you're using a Classic valve with a classic on/off, then that trigger pull weight is going to be double what an Emag is designed for.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
    Posts
    7,380
    The classic on-off won't work with the emag lowers, especially with the 9V batteries. It requires too much force to activate and the two 9V battieris won't even deliver enough current to activate the solenoid at full power. Use the emag on-off assembly in the classic valve if the orings are ok on the emag on-off assembly.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  9. #9
    I swear I just posted that you guys are awesome, and a huge thanks. Yes, it is slightly bent, waiting until daylight to bend it straight. Thanks for confirmation that classic won't work.http://www.automags.org/forums/newre...6794&noquote=1

    No athomas, the orings are gummy bears in the emag valve. Former user definitely only used CO2 in the gun. Need a rebuild kit. Guess I'm going to have to buy that before I can sell.

    edit: anyone want to help me find the o ring sizes so I don't have to buy a whole kit? Figure I have to buy the quad oring from tunaman at the very least.
    Last edited by halB; 03-27-2013 at 09:58 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Minnesotaaaah
    Posts
    812
    This guy sells oring kits for an awesome price...
    http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/m.../short304.html

    Just tell him it's for an emag valve.

  11. #11
    Holy crap. I want to make this guy my friend. And you my friend for showing me this new friend.

    Seriously, I've been on Mccarter for years. Never heard of this guy. You guys are awesome.

  12. #12
    Just be aware, that guy's o-ring kits are comprised of Buna-N o-rings and not Urethane o-rings. The Buna-N's are cheaper, but will compress more and not last nearly as long as the Urethane o-rings that are recommended by AGD. (Though, the quad o-ring on an Emag on/off is Buna). However they will work, for awhile.

    If you're into mags to keep, and will need to tech more than a couple valves from time to time, it may be worth it to make your own bulk kit by snagging a bunch of urethane o-rings off McMaster. Here's a link to the sizes (Classic and RT in first post; X-valve in first post of page 2): http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/a...ing-sizes.html

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    The classic on-off won't work with the emag lowers, especially with the 9V batteries. It requires too much force to activate and the two 9V battieris won't even deliver enough current to activate the solenoid at full power. Use the emag on-off assembly in the classic valve if the orings are ok on the emag on-off assembly.
    BTW athomas, I love it when you verify what I post. Because that way I know I got it right, as I have learned the bulk of what I know about Automags from your helpful posts over the past few years. Thanks!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    7,380
    Quote Originally Posted by halB View Post
    No athomas, the orings are gummy bears in the emag valve. Former user definitely only used CO2 in the gun.
    CO2 won't make the orings gummy. CO2 causes them to wear or become deformed due to gas blow-by. Gummy orings are a result of using the wrong lubricant in the gun. Always use a good quality light synthetic lubricant in any device that uses urethane or buna orings.

  15. #15
    Well, I think I fixed the bend, but the stickiness still remains (plunger definitely does not go up and down by gravity. In fact, the problem seems to have gotten worse.

    Combine this with the fact that the hole for the sear doesn't line up with the rail (too far back) and I think the idiot I got the gun from monkeyed with the timing. Where and how much should I unscrew something?

  16. #16
    Figured out I just screw the plunger. Got my calipers out. Plunger length was at almost 3.06! Eyeballed it down to 3.005 (calipers only go down to .01). It's moving easier. Of course, by screwing it I got to see how bent the sear assembly was. Trying to unbend it. Once that's done this problem should be resolved. At the very least it is moving much better now. Former owner had no respect for this fine piece of hardware.

  17. #17

    To all future readers: resolved

    Thanks to the help of these three wonderful people, my problem is resolved.

    Real problem: Plunger rod was wrong length. Also slightly bent.

    Solution: Used calipers, set rod to right length (3.005"), bent rod to proper alignment. Bend was less of a problem than the wrong length. 80% of the problem was the length!

    Symptoms I should have noticed: It was very difficult to get the sear pin to align with the sear. Should've noticed this.

    Symptoms I did notice: Whole sear was stiff, gummy like when body and frame on rail.

    What it looks like now: The plunger falls up and down with gravity. As it should.

    Now I'm off to get me some o-rings!

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