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Thread: Empire Resurrection Opinions

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by manike View Post


    Would you pay $550 for it?
    I think $550 would probably be a bargain for a high end custom Mag.


    ..and I don't think the name "resurrection" is appropriate.. Mags never died like cockers did

    "I'm not happy unless you're not happy"

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loguzzzzzz View Post
    I am a machine guy, as a mechanical engineer I am amazed at machines. I love to watch a machine as it produces what ever it makes. I have sat and watched as an Italian machine had a single strand of 18k gold wire go in one end and woven gold rope chain came out the bottom. . . .simply amazing!

    The Autococker is a machine, a contraption if you will. They bang and clack and then a little paintball leaves one end - I love' em! I may even have to get one!
    And you are the kind of person that this was made for. Although maybe with a little too much of a mag slant than the average Resurrection customer.

    The Autococker IS the Harley Davidson of people. Sure there will be people that just want the Honda "Cheap electro" but there is something to the sound and mechanisms of an Autococker that is fun, and I don't want that to be lost.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi View Post
    I'm happy that the autococker lives on and its not just fading away into paintball history.
    Me too. That's why it was cool to get to bring it back to life.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post
    I think $550 would probably be a bargain for a high end custom Mag.


    ..and I don't think the name "resurrection" is appropriate.. Mags never died like cockers did
    I agree on both counts.

    Would a new mag need to be "custom"? What makes it custom as compared to production?

    Why would it be a bargain for a mag to be $550 but not a new autococker?

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW View Post
    First, isn't "rational aesthetics" an oxymoron?
    I don't think so. I mean, I could delve into this, but things might get... "ugly".


    I really wish there were an annual "mag vs cockers" event. There was almost one last year, but they fumbled the rules and made it no longer a "mag vs cocker" event.


    I think the sizing of the barrel kit is fine -- the only two sizes I ever use are 0.680 and 0.685 anyways. No doubt I would love to have the extra length of those backs in a Freak system.

    However, one reason I prefer the Freak is that I can consider the inserts to be disposable. If they get scuffed up or damaged, I just buy new ones. (Brass ones, at that. If we're going to talk about unquantifiable magic, which must always be the case when discussing autocockers, then I'm invoking the spirit of 'brass'.) If I scuff up or otherwise damage a back on one of these barrel kits? *shrug*

    That, and I can swap the inserts with other Freak bored barrels, like on my pistols. Or *cough* on my Spyder.

    If you're a "pro" player that drinks from the fountain of equipment and doesn't bother with other guns, that's fine, but for mere mortals, I think the "pro" argument is ... well, it's not relevant to me.


    As far as a Resurrection Automag -- the price question can't be answered without knowing what the product would be in the first place. If you just took a classic and rebadged it -- no. If you were to make substantial improvements, possibly. Question can't be answered at this time.
    "Accuracy by aiming."


    Definitely not on the A-Team.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by manike View Post
    Me too. That's why it was cool to get to bring it back to life.



    I agree on both counts.

    Would a new mag need to be "custom"? What makes it custom as compared to production?

    Why would it be a bargain for a mag to be $550 but not a new autococker?
    Until the pump crazy got going, you were able to get a really high end mech cocker on the cheap. Parts are still relatively inexpensive compared to mag stuff, probably due simply to the fact there there are just a lot more of them out there....

    For example... I seriously don't think I could put a price on this gun...



    **EDIT

    For the price of just the E-90 grip frame I could almost buy a new Resurrection cocker

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoatBoy View Post
    However, one reason I prefer the Freak is that I can consider the inserts to be disposable. If they get scuffed up or damaged, I just buy new ones. (Brass ones, at that. If we're going to talk about unquantifiable magic, which must always be the case when discussing autocockers, then I'm invoking the spirit of 'brass'.) If I scuff up or otherwise damage a back on one of these barrel kits? *shrug*
    The compatibility point I understand and agree that it's nice, but I am interested in how you consider the inserts to be disposable as a good thing.

    Since I made them I never paid for inserts but even then it annoyed me when one would get dropped and ding up to be unusable, or get squashed out of round and be unusable. They are certainly worse in tolerance and straightness than normal barrel backs since it's simply harder to make them as well with such a thin wall. I have lost count of the amount of inserts I have dropped and damaged the lip to the point I wouldn't use them.

    I have some barrels that are 15 years old and work just as well (or better) and don't get damaged as easily. If I had them in a set of complete bore sizes I would take them over almost all other barrels.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post


    **EDIT

    For the price of just the E-90 grip frame I could almost buy a new Resurrection cocker
    There is no doubt that is a stunning mag, hence why it was my first pick at Tunaball but how many people would really pay $500 for that frame system? I can't say that I would.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by manike View Post
    There is no doubt that is a stunning mag, hence why it was my first pick at Tunaball but how many people would really pay $500 for that frame system? I can't say that I would.
    Well, since I only made 10, the price was stupid high.. and I did get 9 buyers. It was something that was meant to be 'special', and there were no delusions about potentially getting a bargain

  9. #39
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    Would you pay $550 for it?[/QUOTE]

    Only if it has an Inception Designs logo on it.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by debruynda View Post
    Only if it has an Inception Designs logo on it.
    brown noser

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulCoffin View Post
    brown noser
    Thanks Dan.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by debruynda View Post
    Would you pay $550 for it?
    Only if it has an Inception Designs logo on it.[/QUOTE]


    Simon has the machines, I have the SW files... we could make that happen. :P

  13. #43
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    I would pay $550 for it!

  14. #44
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    i still need to buy one of those frames.

    you should make me one.

    i would pay 500$ for a frame if there are only small numbers made, such as 10. but that is just me.
    My sydarm weighs less than yours!!!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post
    Only if it has an Inception Designs logo on it.

    Simon has the machines, I have the SW files... we could make that happen. :P[/QUOTE]

    You guys can call it " BIG PUMP-IN " lol

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by manike View Post
    The compatibility point I understand and agree that it's nice, but I am interested in how you consider the inserts to be disposable as a good thing.

    Since I made them I never paid for inserts but even then it annoyed me when one would get dropped and ding up to be unusable, or get squashed out of round and be unusable. They are certainly worse in tolerance and straightness than normal barrel backs since it's simply harder to make them as well with such a thin wall. I have lost count of the amount of inserts I have dropped and damaged the lip to the point I wouldn't use them.

    I have some barrels that are 15 years old and work just as well (or better) and don't get damaged as easily. If I had them in a set of complete bore sizes I would take them over almost all other barrels.
    Well that's the tradeoff isn't it?

    I like them simply because they can be replaced. Even if you're not careless with your equipment, there is simply an extra level of comfort knowing that if you do mess up an insert, it's replaceable.

    I kept my J&J ceramic flawless for more than a decade, but that was basically on a sealed marker -- no external dirt could get in. That was on purpose.

    With the SA-17 spring feed, that changed. There's no way to keep dirt out. That was about the time I switched to the Freak system, and I've noticed light scoring on those inserts already, despite the fact that I keep my markers in otherwise immaculate condition. Would I like them to last forever? Sure. They're not going to though. Even the steel ones can get scratched up.

    If you only use 2 bore sizes (.680 and .685) and put a premium on barrel back/insert surface quality, then a Freak system where you can replace individual inserts just seems to work out better.

    Having 3 other sizes for the "pros" that travel the world is great... But 99% of the time I'm shooting Redemption at my home field, and the 3 backs I don't want to use can't replace the 1-2 scratched ones that I do. (The other 1% of the time I'm using the exact same 2 backs at visiting fields anyways.) I'm guessing that this situation applies to most "rec" players.

    Nothing technically wrong with the barrels -- again, I have no complaint about the steps of the sizing. I just think the value presented by an entire kit which can't be taken a la carte strongly changes when you go from "pro" to "rec".

    If I had my choice, if it had to be 5 backs, I'd take 2x .680, 2x .685, and the 5th one would itself be Freak bored as a backup/contingency.

  17. #47
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    Just to throw this out there also, I've shot one of these things at TB7... IF I hadnt blown a ton of cash on the event and had to take into consideration going away for vacation the week after, I would have bought it in a heart beat. Shoots awesome. Feels awesome. New style slider caught be by surprise but good luck short stroking it.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by manike View Post
    And yet the new stock one, has more than the old hot rodded ones did when they cost $1500...



    Would you pay $550 for it?
    Yes, I would pay that for it. I plan on paying that much for the current resurrection. After all, people need to be honest with themselves. I have wasted money on other products that I would not consider half as well put together as this new marker.
    my feelings are that I love the classic mech feel of a marker....whether it is a mag or a cocker. If the resurrection is an improvement on the older one, then what more can you ask for. My two cents are this....Thank you Simon for bringing something like this back to the market. Paintball, like any other sport sometimes needs to remember its roots. I applaud the idea of going back to mech markers.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by manike View Post
    Would you pay $550 for it?
    everyone has a different opinion and the only one opinion that matters is your own.

    i've seen people pay twice that much for for a new gun from some company that just has you manually pump it instead of automation. hell, the Machine Vapor which is a copy of a Zodiak ZR1, but people would pay $1500 for a Vapor but not $900 for ZR1. go figure?

    so the only thing that anyone to do is, you see one and ask to shoot it. only then you will know if you like it. then you will find a way to get one, whether new or used.

    hell, 13 years ago, the $550 price would fall into a low to mid range in the price for a new cocker. the stock one would be right around $300.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    everyone has a different opinion and the only one opinion that matters is your own.

    i've seen people pay twice that much for for a new gun from some company that just has you manually pump it instead of automation. hell, the Machine Vapor which is a copy of a Zodiak ZR1, but people would pay $1500 for a Vapor but not $900 for ZR1. go figure?

    so the only thing that anyone to do is, you see one and ask to shoot it. only then you will know if you like it. then you will find a way to get one, whether new or used.

    hell, 13 years ago, the $550 price would fall into a low to mid range in the price for a new cocker. the stock one would be right around $300.
    I was thinking a lot about the price and part of my problem is I am still thinking in terms of the mid-nineties when you paid $350 for the stock cocker and then another 600 to get the thing so it would shoot Right off the get go you had to buy a new low pressure reg (Palmer Rock), Clippard Ram, Polished 4-way, Nelson Hammer and Spring Kit, RAT valve, 45 frame, beaver tail, new back block, secondary reg (Heavy a$$ Unireg). Then you had guys like Danny Love mill the crap out of it to lighten it up and make it look cool, throw in an anodizing job on top of that and you were easily in the 1500 range.

    The Resurrection seems to have all the performance stuff already in it. So $550 does not seem bad at all for a Cocker that will shoot right off the first air-up.

  21. #51
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    I have no qualms with the price... I'd rather pay $600 for a fullblock.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by debruynda View Post
    I was thinking a lot about the price and part of my problem is I am still thinking in terms of the mid-nineties when you paid $350 for the stock cocker and then another 600 to get the thing so it would shoot Right off the get go you had to buy a new low pressure reg (Palmer Rock), Clippard Ram, Polished 4-way, Nelson Hammer and Spring Kit, RAT valve, 45 frame, beaver tail, new back block, secondary reg (Heavy a$$ Unireg). Then you had guys like Danny Love mill the crap out of it to lighten it up and make it look cool, throw in an anodizing job on top of that and you were easily in the 1500 range.

    The Resurrection seems to have all the performance stuff already in it. So $550 does not seem bad at all for a Cocker that will shoot right off the first air-up.
    My bro in law has a 96 with everything you speak of except the milling and anno. Think he had 1300 in it back then. Still shoots like a dream though.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    My bro in law has a 96 with everything you speak of except the milling and anno. Think he had 1300 in it back then. Still shoots like a dream though.
    I believe it. Cockers are like the high-speed pneumags and electros you see on this forum. They are hobby guns. Expensive hobby guns.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by debruynda View Post
    I believe it. Cockers are like the high-speed pneumags and electros you see on this forum. They are hobby guns. Expensive hobby guns.
    I'd steal it from him and use it as much as my rt if I wasn't so lazy in maintaining it when something finally gives out. Thats the only reason I've never owned one. And why his is still in a box not getting used.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by manike View Post
    And yet the new stock one, has more than the old hot rodded ones did when they cost $1500...
    Can someone please elaborate on why this is true? Is it mainly because of the new trigger and barrel kit? I am currently in the process of resurrecting (no pun intended) one of these "hot rodded" cocker. If I care about performance, should I just invest in a Resurrection?

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by .C. View Post
    Can someone please elaborate on why this is true? Is it mainly because of the new trigger and barrel kit? I am currently in the process of resurrecting (no pun intended) one of these "hot rodded" cocker. If I care about performance, should I just invest in a Resurrection?
    back when there where $1500+ cockers, places had to buy a body slug directly from WGP, which was not cheap. you where looking at some $300 for just a body. now, you want something special, so that stock body is going to get milled, the more meat milled off, the higher the costs. these didn't always come with back blocks, verts, or front blocks. sometimes these where made by the shop. then add in the new penumatics, or just better pneumatics than what was offered from WGP. different HPR, different bolts, different valve, different hammer, worked 45 frames(set screws to take out the slop, polishing of the trigger plate and sear, roller sears(these when new where a $50 upgrade in itself) AND add in what each shop charged for putting this all together(some shops like P&P, Shocktech, Boston, even Palmers you paid a lot for their name and their work). mix that together when you could spend $600 on anno for one gun alone, and you will get numbers approaching stupid.

    i know a guy that has a brand new Boston Twister WITH a reflex kit, basically a supercharged unicorn. he has the original receipt where it shows that he spent nearly $2400 for that gun. granted, everything is matching on the anno, but its not hard to climb the price chart when you are changing nearly every part.

    remember the Resurrection is a gun that is mass produced. it is purpose built. it has to share the same platform as the sniper, which helps keep the cost down. Kee also owns all of or has access to all of WGP's old stock so the pneumatics and could be NOS. hell, the 09 SFL when it was rereleased was still $700 and that was using old parts with no anno changes.

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by .C. View Post
    Can someone please elaborate on why this is true? Is it mainly because of the new trigger and barrel kit? I am currently in the process of resurrecting (no pun intended) one of these "hot rodded" cocker.
    Sure, I can cut and paste.

    http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/e...er-review.html

    Snappy trigger and generally smooth (not glass but much better that stock WGP) conservative timing
    pneumatics are interchangeable with old AC parts (not that you need to)
    LPR is a AKA SMC-III (IMO the best LPR out)
    Planet Eclipse detents
    ST Bomb like 3way. Very smooth
    Ram is serviceable without removing it from the front block
    All parts were not death Loctited on (thanks Empire)
    Ram and 3way lock screws
    Ram Shaft has wrench flats (no more plier marks)
    3way shaft is one piece
    bolt is a three oring style
    SMALL to large bore barrel kit (the large bore will be freak milled)
    Timed out of the box, just add tank hopper and fun.
    HPR is a removable and replaceable but why would you........
    Bleeding On/Off
    Finish dust is just right and good color match between parts (Black version)
    Milling is nice except one part.......see cons
    Hogue style bubble grips are good for big hands
    Trigger shoe is large and accommodation for gloved hands

    He missed the clamping feedneck and Spyder valve.

    There you go, have fun.



    Quote Originally Posted by .C. View Post
    If I care about performance
    I lol'ed.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    I'd steal it from him and use it as much as my rt if I wasn't so lazy in maintaining it when something finally gives out. Thats the only reason I've never owned one. And why his is still in a box not getting used.
    I think one of the common misconceptions about cockers is that they are high maintenance. Sure, the closer you get it to its performance limits the more likely you are to have problems. However, the tech on my old team used to set it at the beginning of the season and the only problem I would ever encounter was a blown low pressure hose and even that was rare. People got into problems when they would mess around with the timing which was easy to throw off when you figure you have to have the right cocking rod length, right timing rod length so the three way will function and not leak, correct hammer and valve spring tension, correct sear return tension, correct hammer lug depth...any one of those things being out of balance meant your cocker might not function correctly. The last sentence seems to contradict my claim but I meant it only as an illustration that once those aspects are set, and someone who is not a seasoned cocker tech like me would just leave them alone, the reliability and consistency was never an issue. My old cocker used to shoot like a dream but that is because I was disciplined enough not to mess with it or if I wanted to upgrade one of the aspects listed above I let a tech do it for me.

  29. #59
    Alright, not going to read through 2 or 3 pages of people talking about aesthetics. Bought mine Friday, used it at the BT vs Dye here at CPX and it has shot AWESOME. Have two other folks considering it. Used the .080 just as I do on my Sniper. Haven't short stroked at all, along with a couple of the others who have shot it. Haven't shot enough to give an idea on efficiency but better than an 'mag by far. Great ergonomics. Great trigger, I'm a 'cocker noob and was able to shoot great with it.

    People try to compare the price of a NEW Resurrection to a USED ULE Mag. Let's not forget the ULE Mags never came with 5 piece barrel kits, on/off ASA's or clamping feednecks. Not to mention, in 'cocker terms, you have the mid block, the delrin sled, the awesome slide trigger thanks to Simon, being able to adjust from both sides. Not sure what more you could want.

  30. #60
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    @ Nobody - Thanks for the info.

    @Goatboy - God forbid someone tries to ask for information on the internet. For your information I already knew everything you posted, but a "hot rodded" cocker can do more less everything you listed besides having the new frame and barrel. Maybe I wanted some insight from owners who might have noticed something different about the design in general. Do everyone a favor and stop being a jerk.

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