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Thread: Concept: Multi-Angle Trigger Frame.

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Concept: Multi-Angle Trigger Frame.

    Yes, I'm back with another idea to chuck out into the ether.

    I was playing with my Z-Framed Mag on Sunday when it occurred to me that my trigger frame played a large role in my style of play. When playing with the Z I am very comfortable shooting from cover but feel rather wonky when shooting on the run. With an Inteli, or any other standard frame, it's just the opposite.

    So I'm thinking wouldn't it be great if someone made a frame that offered everything from the tight comfort of the Z, to the on the move utility of a standard frame, to the lay down ease of a rifle. So I drew something up. It should be self explanatory.

    Would you buy it? Would you build it?

    3waytrig.jpg

  2. #2
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    It could probably be done but I doubt it would look very good.

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  4. #4
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    For me it comes down to a frame feeling familiar. I love the CCM 86* frame and personally have no issues shooting guns with them from any position. That was a big factor in me buying one of Luke's frames. The grip angle is very similar.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    It could probably be done but I doubt it would look very good.
    Form following function. The half moon trigger is all but a design requirement since it will need to be comfortably pull-able from Z-to-rifle and everywhere in between. I think you are up to the challenge . Besides, who's to say what looks good. 10 years ago Mags were ugly and stacked tubes were hot. Now all the new markers look like old mags. Besides it's a nifty way around that 90 degrees and forward patent (WDP?).

  6. #6
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    The functional issue of the tank/asa it what would need to be addressed. I know there are adjustable mounts but it would need to follow/counter the movement of the frame along its arc of travel orwould not be a functional design. It is a good idea and just a quick though looking around me (a broken ratchet head actually) completely doable design. But getting the tank to counter the movement would be the hard part.

  7. #7
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    Yeah the tank positioning is a major obstacle.

    I think a good idea would be to build just the upper frame and the user can customize with whatever grip they like; 45*, 86* and/or make it compatible with real steel parts.

  8. #8
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    the biggest problem i see is that while the frame can or could be changed, the trigger geometry is the key to this. with the trigger rod, there are clearance issues and when you go to change it from a "45" to a Z frame, you will need to take in that.

    also, will this frame be variable geomtry? that is, one frame and you can either change it from 45 to Z and everything in between on the fly or through one setup, where one person can have a Z and another have a 90 and so on?

    and like what was said before, anything and everything that is mounted to the frame will have to change or be able to change with the frame.

  9. #9
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    This idea was tossed around back about 10 years ago. No one ran with it though. The trigger assembly would need to be a stationary part. The grip would have to rotate at some point below it. The tank ASA would need to have a stationary support so that it wouldn't change angle. A double pivot could hold it horizontal while allowing the frame to rotate forward. I think it is do-able.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    the biggest problem i see is that while the frame can or could be changed, the trigger geometry is the key to this. with the trigger rod, there are clearance issues and when you go to change it from a "45" to a Z frame, you will need to take in that.

    also, will this frame be variable geomtry? that is, one frame and you can either change it from 45 to Z and everything in between on the fly or through one setup, where one person can have a Z and another have a 90 and so on?

    and like what was said before, anything and everything that is mounted to the frame will have to change or be able to change with the frame.
    Yes on the variable geometry. No on the switching frames. The idea is for one frame that can swivel from a pivot point at roughly the center of the circle in the illustration.

    Mounting the tank to the bottom of the frame on this setup is a whole other bag-o-worms. Easiest solution is just to go back bottle. Or use a decently offset drop so the tank clears the valve and foregrip in its respective positions.

    The moving parts would have to be limited to the outer portion of the frame so as not to interfere with the sear.

  11. #11
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    Something similar to this, with the top attachments being external rather than through screws to allow the sear to move, asa remains parallel regardless of angle.

    Would definitely be interested if you can make it happen luke.

  12. #12
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    I'm having a fantacy emag flash back...

    To leave feedback: Click seller/buyers name, Click feedback score, Click leave feedback

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTAutoMag View Post
    I'm having a fantacy emag flash back...
    I remember that... do those images still exist?

  14. #14
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    I have them all, curtosy of bunny

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  16. #16
    I'm probably making more complicated than is needed, but this is how it works in my mind:
    triframe.jpg

    The idea being "push and rotate" so you can swap configurations on the fly mid game.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgop2.0 View Post
    I'm probably making more complicated than is needed, but this is how it works in my mind:
    triframe.jpg

    The idea being "push and rotate" so you can swap configurations on the fly mid game.
    Actually that is a VERY simple and easy idea for the frame pivot. Not overly complicated at all, also a variable detent system (similar to the pivot) using a semicircle and an angled cut off the bottom of the frame for the asa mount could actually work for your idea. I will put something up tonight.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgop2.0 View Post
    I'm probably making more complicated than is needed, but this is how it works in my mind:
    triframe.jpg

    The idea being "push and rotate" so you can swap configurations on the fly mid game.
    Actually that is a good/simple design idea for the frame pivot. Not overly complicated. A similar idea could be used for a pivoting mount ASA.


  19. #19
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    i just thought of something, what about the trigger and the trigger guard? if you set the trigger and guard in "Z" form, what will happen when you pull it to a 45 position? as well as the trigger geometry(where you pull at it and where it pivots) are different from the Z to the 45. i think that is where this will either make or break this idea. on an electro, a microswitch is a microswitch and you can put them anywhere, but having a mechanical link is the crux of it.

  20. #20
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    Put the pivot point right below the sear linkage and trigger guard.

    Now that I have my Y I've been thinking of how it would be sweet if the bottom 2 inches of the Y curved drastically forward. Then use a trigger that swings way forward. Gun would work great in standing and running position with you hand high on the frame. Then get tucked in and let it slide down to the bottom of the curve. So it is in almost Z position.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    i just thought of something, what about the trigger and the trigger guard? if you set the trigger and guard in "Z" form, what will happen when you pull it to a 45 position? as well as the trigger geometry(where you pull at it and where it pivots) are different from the Z to the 45. i think that is where this will either make or break this idea. on an electro, a microswitch is a microswitch and you can put them anywhere, but having a mechanical link is the crux of it.
    The pull is really the only issue with the geometry. Having a semi circle trigger fixes the issue of the frame position. Just from a simple drawling we have right now it looks like it would/should have the sear geometry of an intelliframe but the trigger pull would suffer in any position out side of the 45 position.

  22. #22
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    Great idea to bounce around, but I think the real question is would it sell more than 20 or so.
    Doubtful.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    Great idea to bounce around, but I think the real question is would it sell more than 20 or so.
    Doubtful.
    True. A niche item in a niche of a niche market. It would also be much more complex to R&D and manufacture than the aftermarket trigger frames out there now. So Luke, how much for a one off?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgop2.0 View Post
    true. A niche item in a niche of a niche market. It would also be much more complex to r&d and manufacture than the aftermarket trigger frames out there now. So luke, how much for a one off?
    $8k

  25. #25
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    I think that's fair

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    $8k
    Oddly enough that was exactly the number I was expecting.

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