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Thread: I need some RT on/off assembly edjucation!

  1. #1
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    I need some RT on/off assembly edjucation!

    I need some schooling on RT on/off assemblies.
    I was speaking to Loguzzzzz about running a ULT on a pneumag and this was his response..."The ULT is not the best setup for a Pneumag. The RT on/off is the best I have found. The reactivity helps to reset the pneumatics and is slightly faster on re-charge."

    I trust his imput but the question is: Can I run a RT on/off assembly on a stock valve?

    Also, What will a RT on/off assembly in a stock valve effect as far as the total operation of the gun? (ie. will it make it run like a regular RT valve)

    All I have in the valve is a Phase II charger and a LVL 10 kit. Any info on this subject can help, thank you.

  2. #2
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    I've got a rt on off assembly in my classic minimag. It lightens the trigger pull a tad. But that's about it that I can tell. The rt effect is due to how the air is regulated in the valve. Not the on off.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    I've got a rt on off assembly in my classic minimag. It lightens the trigger pull a tad. But that's about it that I can tell. The rt effect is due to how the air is regulated in the valve. Not the on off.
    what kind of pressure do you have running to the valve?
    Did you have to mod your gun to put the RT on/off in their?

  4. #4
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    Pre set crossfire 850. And nope. Direct drop in. Make sure the on off pin is the correct length though. .75

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    Pre set crossfire 850. And nope. Direct drop in. Make sure the on off pin is the correct length though. .75
    thank you....now the last question...can I buy yours?

    lol, jk, jk, does AGD sell these? I saw parts to a on/off assembly but not the entire assembly altogether.

  6. #6
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    The classic AIR valve uses velocity controlling regulated air at the top of the on-off pin unlike direct tank pressure at the pin of a retro valve. The reset action of the retro pin in an AIR valve has the same starting force as a stock AIR valve on-off pin. The smaller diameter of the lower section of the pin means your trigger pull force will be half of what it is with the stock pin. However, the differential force between the trigger pull and return force is significantly lower on a classic AIR valve compared to a retro valve such that even using a retro on-off assembly will not result in reactivity at the trigger.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by big poppa fluff View Post
    ...does AGD sell these? I saw parts to a on/off assembly but not the entire assembly altogether.
    It's on page 2 of the X-valve/Retro/Emag/RT Valve Parts section. Here: http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/in...fo&prodId=2092

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    The classic AIR valve uses velocity controlling regulated air at the top of the on-off pin unlike direct tank pressure at the pin of a retro valve. The reset action of the retro pin in an AIR valve has the same starting force as a stock AIR valve on-off pin. The smaller diameter of the lower section of the pin means your trigger pull force will be half of what it is with the stock pin. However, the differential force between the trigger pull and return force is significantly lower on a classic AIR valve compared to a retro valve such that even using a retro on-off assembly will not result in reactivity at the trigger.
    ok... I thinking about going to a capped valve and running a external reg. or adj. tank, will I still have the same result as above.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justus View Post
    It's on page 2 of the X-valve/Retro/Emag/RT Valve Parts section. Here: http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/in...fo&prodId=2092
    thank you

  10. #10
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    Haha. Nope. Wife would kill me if I sold her gun parts. I do need to start building something featherlight for scenario play though.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by big poppa fluff View Post
    ok... I thinking about going to a capped valve and running a external reg. or adj. tank, will I still have the same result as above.
    As the pressure that the dump chamber sees will need to be the same, yes it will work the same as described above. Your external reg will be outputting relatively the same pressure as what the AIR valve was supplying the dump chamber (and top of on/off pin).


    -Nathan
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    Last of the Salzburg Clan

  12. #12
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    I agree with the post above. The AIR valve delivers regulated air which is the same as any external regulator on a capped valve. Its just that the AIR valve has the regulator onboard.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    The classic AIR valve uses velocity controlling regulated air at the top of the on-off pin unlike direct tank pressure at the pin of a retro valve. The reset action of the retro pin in an AIR valve has the same starting force as a stock AIR valve on-off pin. The smaller diameter of the lower section of the pin means your trigger pull force will be half of what it is with the stock pin. However, the differential force between the trigger pull and return force is significantly lower on a classic AIR valve compared to a retro valve such that even using a retro on-off assembly will not result in reactivity at the trigger.
    I keep reading this over and over slowly and it makes my head hurt.

    Poppa Fluff, I am running a capped classic valve with an RT on/off in my pneu project. For a pneu'd Mag it helps as it lowers the pressure needed to the ram to trip the sear. With a capped valve, you will not get any sort of RT effect, even from a capped RT/Xvalve. I tried going one step further with using a ULT in the classic, but could not get it to trip consistently. I may go back an revisit this now that I have a little more tuning knowledge.

  14. #14
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    It sounds like you understand it well. Why is your head hurting? It's all about what pressures act on what surface areas and when.

    Now for the hijack. With a ULT in a Classic valve, it seems like it would trip but maybe not reset due to less pressure (std RT vs std Classic setup) on a given surface area. Unless you were just out shooting it. I can't walk a trigger to save my life, but I'm assuming many with pneumag setups could outshoot a Classic valve with a Classic or RT on/off.

    Did I help or worsen your headache?


    -Nathan
    Last edited by nak81783; 07-24-2013 at 07:21 PM.

  15. #15
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    It has been several months since I tried the ULT in the valve. I just remembered it was not working out at all. Honestly, I have tried so many variations with this setup that I have a hard time keeping it straight. I do remember at the time trying to get it to work and happended across a thread saying that ULT's were inconsistent in Classic valves so I pulled it out and some of my issues went away. This was also prior to me putting the Pneus in and I think someone mentioned that a ULT might work in a pneu setup due to the faster tripping of the sear? I could be way off on this as it's all a little fuzzy at this point.

    I'm not sure why all this makes my head hurt. Probably just old age.

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    All I'm trying to obtain is a mag that I can shoot fast(shot light trigger). Holds a constant velocity(no shoot down). An if i can shave off a couple pounds but still save money (capped stock valve), I'm good. I honestly never understood what all went into a RT that made it do what it does. All the ones I had worked so well I never have to worry with it. I just assumed AGD used some kind of voodoo magic to make it react.... Obviously their is some kind of alien technology behind it, lol.

  18. #18
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    Are you wanting RT effect or light pull?

  19. #19
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    Buy an E/X-mag.

    Yes, WGP had elves; AGD used a special alien voodoo.

    All in good fun. I've enjoyed this thread.


    -Nathan

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    It has been several months since I tried the ULT in the valve. I just remembered it was not working out at all. Honestly, I have tried so many variations with this setup that I have a hard time keeping it straight. I do remember at the time trying to get it to work and happended across a thread saying that ULT's were inconsistent in Classic valves so I pulled it out and some of my issues went away. This was also prior to me putting the Pneus in and I think someone mentioned that a ULT might work in a pneu setup due to the faster tripping of the sear? I could be way off on this as it's all a little fuzzy at this point.

    I'm not sure why all this makes my head hurt. Probably just old age.
    Did you ever try the ULT in the classic with a level 10 bolt? With the level 10 needing about 10% more pressure, I was wondering if that might be enough additional pressure to reset the ULT well (at lower rates of fire).

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW View Post
    Did you ever try the ULT in the classic with a level 10 bolt? With the level 10 needing about 10% more pressure, I was wondering if that might be enough additional pressure to reset the ULT well (at lower rates of fire).
    I did not. I tore everything down to as basic a valve as I could to eliminate gremlins. Once I got it working in pure mech mode with the standard on/off, I moved to an RT on/off. Once that worked, I introduced the pneu setup and have been tinkering from there. Right now I have the pnue setup with a spring returne, RT on/off and level 7 bolt and all it working right now. I will fix it some more until I break it and then probably take a step back. Level 10 is a few steps off.

  22. #22
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    So you need to:

    1. Check if that Spyder clone valve is flipped
    2. Put a muffler on your Halo tractor
    3. Try a ULT and Level 10 on your pneumag

    And those are just the ones I know about. You're a busy guy.


    -Nathan

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nak81783 View Post
    So you need to:

    1. Check if that Spyder clone valve is flippedSo far down the list of the to do list that I forgot about it.
    2. Put a muffler on your Halo tractor With paint in the hopper and with the sound of the marker cant notice it. Think its always sounded like that just never noticed.
    3. Try a ULT and Level 10 on your pneumag Add reinstalling magnet mod to this scenario. Reread the OP and realized he said Loguzzzz said not to bother with ULT so I'll probably skip that. Not sure if I will do Level10 or not. Maybe if I find a good deal on one.

    And those are just the ones I know about. You're a busy guy.


    -Nathan
    But I work from home and only have the kids every other week, so I have time on my hands to burn.

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