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Thread: It's time for a new automag body... a "resurrection" automag

  1. #1
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    It's time for a new automag body... a "resurrection" automag

    Call me crazy but if these new age space *****es can have hidden detents why can't the beefier, better, brawny-er, bad-a** automag?



    Imagine this is a ULE body with no visible detents

    No more angel threaded detents to buy
    No more anno matching
    Less blow outs
    More awesome










    Who's with me?
    Last edited by rukh013; 12-12-2013 at 08:01 AM.

  2. #2
    careful now, adding detents might add more weight

    on second thought, why? doesn't the barrel have the detent on it, and also the detents would need to go through the barrel as well to work correctly.

  3. #3
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    I just want to eliminate the detents from the side of ULE bodies and put them underneath

  4. #4
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    How about a nylon tipped front frame screw that goes into the body just a little bit. So basically only the nylon tip would stick into the body.

    The issue I see is the bolt cutting anything like that off. Even the ego detents would get cut off by the bolt. Somebody needs to design and make a spring loaded detent that goes in the rail. Or possibly a way to put the old nubbins in a channel milled in the rail or bottom of the body. A little recess could allow it to go down when the bolt passes over it.

  5. #5
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    The nubbin is my only complaint with twist lock. I'm die hard twist lock. But nubbins need manipulation to have enough tension for force fed hoppers. I do want to test out modified spyder detents in my tl barrel though next summer.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    The nubbin is my only complaint with twist lock. I'm die hard twist lock. But nubbins need manipulation to have enough tension for force fed hoppers. I do want to test out modified spyder detents in my tl barrel though next summer.
    I forget the polymer we mixed a while back.
    but it is tested to this exact thought,
    plus many others.

    detent placement can be put in many places.
    with the new polymer it is stiff when docile, but when pressure is put to it, it reacts with the proper tension,
    and also can be tweaked.

    came to be to expensive to work with.
    I have the cash but dont have the time to bring this back to testing.

    so all I can say is your are on the right track.
    but moving detents is kind slow progress.
    same thing just done a different day.

    cool though
    My sydarm weighs less than yours!!!

  7. #7
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    im thinking intimidator/spyder detents... yes they will wear out but they are:
    1) CHEAP
    2) made for multiple markers (macdev clone, all CCM's, empire vanquish, eclipse (similar enough), azodin, etc)
    3) With the fall of angel it won't be long til all angel threaded anything is hard to find, ask people searching for feednecks that don't just slap ccm's on
    4) When they fail they are easy to replace
    5) Not as easily shot out

  8. #8
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    Perhaps the body could be milled with an oval instead of a circle. Then the rail would get a spot for the base of the detent. With an oval the detent could have a small space to go into when the bolt is pressing on it.

    Another way is with an oring, even cheaper and easier to find than Spyder detents. CCM switched the T2 over to this style and ASP does it for Phantoms. A small channel is milled and a oring is pressed in. It sticks into the breach a little and stops double feeds. I'm thinking that should be even easier to do than to get Spyder detents t work. I'll find some pictures.

  9. #9
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    HERE is the link to the CCM thread on MCB.

    The big issue is getting XMT or whoever to make the bodies without the detent hole. I would love the Ripper body I paid for to come this way. Unfortunately I don't see that happening.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancecst View Post
    HERE is the link to the CCM thread on MCB.

    The big issue is getting XMT or whoever to make the bodies without the detent hole. I would love the Ripper body I paid for to come this way. Unfortunately I don't see that happening.
    he quoted me $500 for one body/rail combo

    I imagine if i were to get more interest he would lower price

  11. #11
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    all the benefits are listed, but i'll play Devil's Advocate:

    1) by moving the detent and having them being held into the rail, replacing them is more of a chore as you have to drop the body and valve to replace them.
    2) more involved machining process. ULEs are simply made but when you add in a cover or even moving the place where the detent is, it will make the price goes up on the bodies.
    3) you will have to have some sort of retainer as the detents will need something to hold them in the body, as when you get to the ULE'd and other milled rails, the lack of material will play into the pricing of having not only to remake the detents, but having some retainer that will also work with the multitude of milled rails.
    4) though its a good idea, does anyone know how the detent fingers react with the mag bolt? does anyone know if or how long a finger detent will last with a mag?
    5) if this works, can anyone think of a good and decent way of retrofitting existing bodies when the angel detents "dry up"?

    i am not trashing a good idea, just asking for some thought into the mater.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    all the benefits are listed, but i'll play Devil's Advocate:

    1) by moving the detent and having them being held into the rail, replacing them is more of a chore as you have to drop the body and valve to replace them.
    I agree but CCM T2 owners (same detent) don't complain about the difficulty, and don't change them as often because they don't shoot out. They can't rub the metal that retains them like an angel threaded detent... aren't you tired of one detent being slightly different and having to use an oring or two???
    2) more involved machining process. ULEs are simply made but when you add in a cover or even moving the place where the detent is, it will make the price goes up on the bodies.
    new bodies, not retrofiting old ones. simply stop milling deetents into the sides where they are exsposed
    3) you will have to have some sort of retainer as the detents will need something to hold them in the body, as when you get to the ULE'd and other milled rails, the lack of material will play into the pricing of having not only to remake the detents, but having some retainer that will also work with the multitude of milled rails.
    yes, for new rails that are going to be ULE'd they will need a portion to remain to retain the detents. Very minimal and should still be a few grams lighter
    4) though its a good idea, does anyone know how the detent fingers react with the mag bolt? does anyone know if or how long a finger detent will last with a mag?
    the fang/finger detent was DESIGNED for a open bolt system and are far superior to ball detents
    5) if this works, can anyone think of a good and decent way of retrofitting existing bodies when the angel detents "dry up"?
    forget the retrofit, as much as i would love to retrofit this into my chord body, it is not feasable. Do this for all new bodies made

    i am not trashing a good idea, just asking for some thought into the mater.
    thanks for the input. More ideas please I am very open to suggestion

  13. #13
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    ccm owners dont complain about them because most are underboring anyway. i havent had working detents in my s6 in years. this detent system has already been done.doc machine uses them on his mag to cocker adapters. i would rather have the ball detents than the nubbins. but if you are trying to make them. i would mod a rebuildable detent to work if it came down to it. use one of these http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/misc/v2/ fill in the part that threads in and redrill a hole for the nubbin and put it back together. saves you having to do machining to the body and will fit all mag bodies.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    4) though its a good idea, does anyone know how the detent fingers react with the mag bolt? does anyone know if or how long a finger detent will last with a mag?
    Doc's adapter uses finger detents. They would last at least 3 cases (under loader tension), then I lost track with my spares.

    You could build a finger detent into an angel detent body for testing.
    Last edited by Spider-TW; 12-12-2013 at 09:20 AM. Reason: 5? 3

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW View Post
    Doc's adapter uses finger detents. They would last at least 3 cases (under loader tension), then I lost track with my spares.

    You could build a finger detent into an angel detent body for testing.
    eBay search "angel fang detent" they work well I have two

  16. #16
    this detent system has already been done.doc machine uses them on his mag to cocker adapters.
    This is what I was thinking the whole time reading this thread. Take away the nubbins and the weight, and the speed of stripping out a twist lock barrel wins over cocker threads. Only problem then becomes availability, as a lot of manufacturers already fail to make TL barrels.

    But making ULE bodies designed for TL barrels and without detent holes, and then integrating a lightweight aluminum version of the TL-cocker adapter is feasible and a more cost effective way of doing this.

  17. #17
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    I think Luke has made everything except a body...


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW View Post
    I think Luke has made everything except a body...



    XMT's on it but IF there is interest I'm getting it cut to test... i'll post up results

  19. #19
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    CCM bolts have slots milled into them so that the bolt doesn't cut the detent off. I don't think there is any one perfect way but I personally would go for having to do more work to replace a hidden detent and have a more visually appealing body.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rukh013 View Post


    XMT's on it but IF there is interest I'm getting it cut to test... i'll post up results
    I already paid for a Ripper body only. If you and he come up with a good way of doing this let me know. I'm definitely interested and I would get a Ripper rail and the mod.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancecst View Post
    CCM bolts have slots milled into them so that the bolt doesn't cut the detent off. I don't think there is any one perfect way but I personally would go for having to do more work to replace a hidden detent and have a more visually appealing body.
    Thats what i want as well hench the S6.5 I took it from. It is the best design i've seen for the detent, it gives the detent finger somewhere to go

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancecst View Post
    I already paid for a Ripper body only. If you and he come up with a good way of doing this let me know. I'm definitely interested and I would get a Ripper rail and the mod.
    ASK XMT... I'm hoping to lower the cost stated by getting more "testers" onboard

  23. #23
    Didn't someone do a draw up a new body that had hidden/flush detents on the sides? It was sick looking design too.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rukh013 View Post
    ASK XMT... I'm hoping to lower the cost stated by getting more "testers" onboard
    I'd possibly be interested in a Ripper body if the pricing was able to be reduced. Also not looking to be a guinea pig either. Someone needs to prove the validity of the design before I would be fully onboard.

    Edit: Question as I am not familiar with these types of detents. Is the only part that sticks through the "finger"? If so, wouldn't all that needs to be done is to drill a hole through the body and mill a shallow pocket in the rail?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
    I'd possibly be interested in a Ripper body if the pricing was able to be reduced. Also not looking to be a guinea pig either. Someone needs to prove the validity of the design before I would be fully onboard.

    Edit: Question as I am not familiar with these types of detents. Is the only part that sticks through the "finger"? If so, wouldn't all that needs to be done is to drill a hole through the body and mill a shallow pocket in the rail?
    You also need a little slot on the bore side for the finger to fold into (or other space), so it's usually three operations with some small tool bits.

    I did just pick up a classic mag with a power feed body...do you smell money burning?

    ***

    You may need to be careful about the rail you use with this. Something like Luke's ultra light at least may not cover the detents fully.
    Last edited by Spider-TW; 12-12-2013 at 10:32 AM.

  26. #26
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    That's why I suggested the oring type detents. I would imagine it should be easier to machine. A groove on each side of the front frame screw in the rail and matching grooves in the body.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW View Post
    You also need a little slot on the bore side for the finger to fold into (or other space), so it's usually three operations with some small tool bits.

    I did just pick up a classic mag with a power feed body...do you smell money burning?

    ***

    You may need to be careful about the rail you use with this. Something like Luke's ultra light at least may not cover the detents fully.
    Ok, so a drill bit, a couple of files to make the groove for the finger to bend in and that should be it right? Wondering if something like the Armada rail would work? Think the ULE milling would be too severe. But if that was the case, it could probably be rigged in by taping it or bunching up something under it to keep it in place right? Part of my fear would be the bolt sheering it off.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW View Post
    I did just pick up a classic mag with a power feed body...do you smell money burning?

    ***

    You may need to be careful about the rail you use with this. Something like Luke's ultra light at least may not cover the detents fully.
    I got one of those $110 ULE classic mags from Hawaii. I think I need t go send a PM or 2 to some people on MCB.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancecst View Post
    That's why I suggested the oring type detents. I would imagine it should be easier to machine. A groove on each side of the front frame screw in the rail and matching grooves in the body.
    like the ASP phantom detents?

  30. #30
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    Exactlly

    Here is a quick picture showing where I think they would be. I attached a picture of the CCM T2 milling for reference.



    I sent a PM to someone on MCB, I'll let you know what comes of it.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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