Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: rt effect

  1. #1

    rt effect

    I have 2 rt classics(well 3 actually but one is still new in the box and staying that way) and neither one will rt on 850psi. just how much pressure is needed to get them to rt reasonably well? I have a 1200 psi coming but want to save it for special occasions plus I can waste enough paint on semi only but it would be nice to be able to get them to rt once in a while without needing that much pressure. also anyone have an idea on about how many shots you can get out of a 68/4500 tank in the 850 psi and higher pressures?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Plymouth, WI
    Posts
    7,194
    the output of the pressure of the tank will not matter with "how many shots will I get" as the same ammount of air will still be behind the ball for each shot. the higher pressure will just make the air flow faster into the dump chamber, thus creating a greater rt effect

    To leave feedback: Click seller/buyers name, Click feedback score, Click leave feedback

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    southern IL
    Posts
    1,873
    BT is correct. Input pressure won't affect amount of shots for the most part. It will affect the pressure at which your velocity will start being affected though.

    As far as RT effect. I used to run my classic RT (97 model if I remember correct) with 1000 psi input. No one at my field could control the trigger bounce except me. Since I started playing again I've been running it at 900. Still easy bounce. But the full on bounce isn't horrid mi d blowing fast. With an 850psi preset crossfire tank it bounces just fine also. So it makes me wonder what the setup difference is with yours that keeps them from bouncing.

  4. #4
    As far as I can tell there is no magic number. Every valve seems to be different. With my Nitro-Duck adjustable and my Crossfire 850 preset I could not get any of my RT's to "RT". Now I'm running an SHP at 1100 and Ninja Pro at 850. My RT's (X and classic) both RT with either tank. The classic was so severe that I decided to pnue it to make it usable again. This leads me to believe that pressure alone is not the only tank side variable. Flow and recharge must also be very important.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    southern IL
    Posts
    1,873
    Valve on/off pin length effects it too. Shorter pin makes it more reactive.... to a point. I know I had read somewhere years ago how the early automagRTs had a shorter on/off pin than the ones sold later on. Don't know if that is true or not. But I do know my classic automag rt is far more reactive than the RTPro I had bought for a backup gun was back then.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Livonia, MI or Panama
    Posts
    81
    Do not mess with the on/off pin length. The RT effect becomes much more easier to find as you increase the incoming pressure into the marker. You need a good "old school" adjustable reg on your tank, like an Armageddon or a Centerflag, that can keep up with the gun. Most of the new regs out there cannot flow enough air to really RT your gun. I have run 1500 psi thru my X-Valve with no issues. To see what I'm talking about, go to youtube and search for Zak Vetter. He has broken down everything you need to do to make your RT go like crazy.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by Patron God of Pirates View Post
    Flow and recharge must also be very important.
    It is. You can put 1000-1100 psi on the valve, but if the tank regulator doesn't keep up, you may be lucky to get a second shot on the reactive bounce. ASAs with pinholes for passages and very heavy wall hoses with narrow passages can starve the valve also. Adjustable regs are nice to play with and dial the rate of fire up and down, but you usually end up setting it in one place. When the ninjas came out, I was happy to shelf my max-flo inline just because of the maintenance around the poppet and cup. Best of all, it just looks like a plain "old mag" with a standard tank on it. Since it can only possibly fool the kids that care about such things, it's perfect.

  8. #8
    1200 psi and its a beast.

  9. #9
    i'm thinking its too restricted by the brass insert in the CP asa, I am thinking about removing the inserts and opening them up as much as possible and see what that does.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    785
    As mentioned be for, changing the on off pin length will greatly effect the RT effect. Easy way to start is go to Airgun designs store and order a few different size pins .740,.728,.712 lengths and see what gives you the bounce your looking for. That's what I did when I wanted more RT effect from my valves. Pressure helps greatly but i use all preset regulator so pins for me.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
    Posts
    7,408
    Quote Originally Posted by vintage View Post
    i'm thinking its too restricted by the brass insert in the CP asa, I am thinking about removing the inserts and opening them up as much as possible and see what that does.
    What brass insert are you talking about? If you put a spacer in the ASA, make sure the pin on the tank regulator is getting pushed in far enough. If not, it will starve the valve. That will cause a loss of reactivity.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  12. #12
    the CP asa's on both have an hour glass shaped brass insert in them that holds the pin. the slots in the sides are not very big and i think if i can open them up it will solve the problem. i'll see if i can get a picture of them to post.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,199
    I like a flow area equivalent to at least a 1/8" diameter hole for RTs. I'll try smaller ports if I like the ASA. If it becomes suspect, I either drill the port out or change the ASA over to a more efficient marker. The other thing that sometimes happens is that the port is across from the flat face of the bottle reg, which sits very close to the bottom of the ASA. Depending on the cut of the bottle reg face and the ASA port, some arrangements can be heavily blocked. Iirc, the CPs have slots in the brass insert near the center.

    The old quarter turn SP ASAs had some tiny ports on them.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW View Post
    I like a flow area equivalent to at least a 1/8" diameter hole for RTs. I'll try smaller ports if I like the ASA. If it becomes suspect, I either drill the port out or change the ASA over to a more efficient marker. The other thing that sometimes happens is that the port is across from the flat face of the bottle reg, which sits very close to the bottom of the ASA. Depending on the cut of the bottle reg face and the ASA port, some arrangements can be heavily blocked. Iirc, the CPs have slots in the brass insert near the center.

    The old quarter turn SP ASAs had some tiny ports on them.
    do you think I should try opening the slots or get a different asa? I really don't want to have to use my 1200 psi tank all the time, just save it for special occasions.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by vintage View Post
    do you think I should try opening the slots or get a different asa? I really don't want to have to use my 1200 psi tank all the time, just save it for special occasions.
    I would make sure they have enough flow area. The last one I messed with was on a classic mag. Now that I think about it, I should go back and look. That setup was trying to run faster than your average classic mag. I thought it had some nice fat slots in it.

    I also forgot we are talking about a classic RT. Try this; pull the banjo bolt and mark the edge with some paint or nail polish at the location of a port on it. Re-install it with the alignment mark facing the air inlet port. The difference should be no more than a quarter of a turn from your normal position (if any). If you are right in the middle, you may want to try tighter or looser. Loose is nice, like a shorter on/off pin (~0.008" at most), but it may vibrate loose later (you'll be able to see the mark move though).

    What kind of reg is your 850? RT'ing at 850 is pretty tricky either way. Not much trigger kick and it feels very slow compared to ~1000 or more. At least that's what mine have done to me, even with good regs. It's funny how 12 bps feels like you are waiting on the trigger.
    Last edited by Spider-TW; 01-29-2014 at 05:06 PM.

  16. #16
    brand new crossfire, newly rebuilt pure energy and a standard ninja

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by vintage View Post
    brand new crossfire, newly rebuilt pure energy and a standard ninja
    Iirc, the standard ninja can be shimmed up to 900psi. I find 900-950psi to provide a relatively "sociable" rate of fire. That might be a nice alternative to the 1200 psi bottle.

  18. #18
    i changed asa's and still the same. going to have to go with Ninja regs. should i get the standard or pro?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by vintage View Post
    brand new crossfire, newly rebuilt pure energy and a standard ninja
    Quote Originally Posted by vintage View Post
    i changed asa's and still the same. going to have to go with Ninja regs. should i get the standard or pro?
    I thought you already had a standard ninja. The pro-standard just has a wider (lower) output range. For RT, you need an SHP (high output). Use the "catalog" button on the ninja web site to get all the details in a pdf. I had to look again since I got lost in the newer variations. They don't have a plain or standard SHP anymore, they are all "pro".

  20. #20
    I do, I have a standard hp ninja and a fixed 1200 plus ninja. I was wanting to get some effect with my 850 psi crossfire and pure energy regulators. the standard ninja will rt to some degree its harder to find than the 1200. there are two kinds of ninja hp regs on ebay. the pro and the older hp which is about $15.00 less, the only difference I see between the two is the bonnet rotates on the pro.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •