Gun Trade - Lost Gun Advice

[Dayspring]

So I'm in a bind...

Traded my Freeflow Eblade to a guy in Cali for his Eclipse Geo 2.0. He got his gun (verified by USPS). He shipped mine out a day or so later. However the USPS says that they have no record of it ever being picked up (even though we have an email from their system saying it was). I submitted a claim for the insurance, but was originally denied b/c they say they can't verify the method of shipping. I've appealed that decision with some PDF paperwork from the shipper, but haven't heard anything back yet.

So my question is this - if they deny the claim, what recourse do I have with the shipper? In his eyes, the gun left his possession, but according to the USPS, it never was picked up. He's already modified the gun (think he halfblocked it) so it's not like I can ask for the gun back.

If the USPS denies the appeal, am I pretty much screwed out of a gun? Can I go to the shipper and get some sort of financial compensation for the lost article?

Thoughts?

[ScottyBeans]

That really sucks. If you have .PDF proof that the package was accepted I don't see how they can deny an appeal. Just keep complaining and making a fuss and you should eventually get soemthing (insurance, I'd imagine).

As far as getting anything from the shipper, I'd imagine there's no real recourse you can take. It sounds to me like he shipped it, which completes the deal on his part. No reason he should be on the hook for this that I can see.

[Dayspring]

See, the thing is, when you load the tracking # for the package, it says that it only generated the tracking number, and no pickup happened.

Not sure which they give more credence to - their tracking system (which says nothing was picked up) or an email from their system that says it was.

[knownothingmags]

where in California?
I had to press my usps for an item from PTP it to a month to find but finally found it,
and this was after 20 days of them saying no it doesn't exist.
other then that im sorry I don't know what other options you have.
I hope you get lucky and it just shows up.

***the guy is a trusted trader, or you have done business with him before?

[SoulCoffin]

dang, you mentioned this happening a ittle while back on beo. can't believe they're still pushing back, even when you have an automated email from their system. what was their counterargument against that?

[knownothingmags]

it was the automated notice from the usps,
and not the notice that the shipper just got a tracking number, correct?

[Dayspring]

Guy had significant positive feedback on Customcockers.com.

Shipped from Santa Maria. (Picked up from his house.)


Now, I went through their customer affairs group, and they forwarded a "find this package" to their mail recovery service. Though, according to them, it may take up to 3 months. There would be NO communication about it - the package either shows up or it doesn't.

Their argument against the claim was "no verification of your method of mailing."

[Dayspring]

it was the automated notice from the usps,
and not the notice that the shipper just got a tracking number, correct?

We have a PDF copy of an email from CarrierPickup@usps.com to the shipper saying "this is to confirm that a successful Package Pickup was made." Included some information on that as well.

Their tracking system, however, shows nothing but a tracking number being generated.

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfi...99300032858966

[Frizzle Fry]

First off, I take issue with the guy modifying YOUR marker. It's not his marker to modify, not until you receive the marker you are owed. Modifying/milling/parting/selling a marker received in a trade deal before the deal is completed raises a big red flag to me about this person. I know on PBNation and TechPB there are specific B/S/T rules covering this. How is this persons feedback? Did you agree to let him ship first or is that just "how it worked out"? Very fishy.

Secondly, can you be sure that the USPS confirmation email is genuine? Did you receive it, or did he? Are you sure that the email specified that the marker was picked up, or is it just the "shipping printed" notification and "pickup scheduled" notification which can be sent when shipping labels are printed out at home from Stamps.com or PayPal... That's pretty thin evidence of having been shipped either way, since automated USPS notifications are sent based on the tracking database, not vice versa, and you must sign up to receive them.

Third, and most important, you need to tell him to make things right. He (the shipper) is the customer; he hired USPS to deliver something to you - it is his responsibility to file claims, make phone calls, and fill out paperwork. All you should be doing is passing along any forms that need your signature; he purchased the insurance, not you. If he left the package on his doorstep and it got nicked before the postman showed up, that is his responsibility, not yours and not USPS, and he needs to make things right (or receive a big negative feedback, and possibly be taken to small claims court).

If he truly did fulfill his end of the deal, and he can give compelling evidence that the package was delivered into USPS custody (CCTV of the postman picking it up, a live confirmation from USPS that they did receive it, etc) but for some reason USPS chooses not to pay out, I don't think he deserves a negative feedback rating or should be held responsible. In that unlikely event, however, a good person would do SOMETHING to make things right.

That said, I think you're being hoodwinked.

[knownothingmags]

We have a PDF copy of an email from CarrierPickup@usps.com to the shipper saying "this is to confirm that a successful Package Pickup was made." Included some information on that as well.

Their tracking system, however, shows nothing but a tracking number being generated.

you know what I would keep my hopes up,
they have a way of just getting things to people, and going "oh you were waiting for this, oh I have all the info about it right here" in the end.

how long have you been waiting?

[Dayspring]

12/14/2013

[Frizzle Fry]

We have a PDF copy of an email from CarrierPickup@usps.com to the shipper saying "this is to confirm that a successful Package Pickup was made." Included some information on that as well.[/url]

Didn't see this as I was typing.

If you didn't receive the email personally, I wouldn't put much faith in it being real.

[Dayspring]

First off, I take issue with the guy modifying YOUR marker. It's not his marker to modify, not until you receive the marker you are owed. Modifying/milling/parting/selling a marker received in a trade deal before the deal is completed raises a big red flag to me about this person. I know on PBNation and TechPB there are specific B/S/T rules covering this. How is this persons feedback? Did you agree to let him ship first or is that just "how it worked out"? Very fishy.

Secondly, can you be sure that the USPS confirmation email is genuine? Did you receive it, or did he? Are you sure that the email specified that the marker was picked up, or is it just the "shipping printed" notification and "pickup scheduled" notification which can be sent when shipping labels are printed out at home from Stamps.com or PayPal... That's pretty thin evidence of having been shipped either way, since automated USPS notifications are sent based on the tracking database, not vice versa, and you must sign up to receive them.

Third, and most important, you need to tell him to make things right. He (the shipper) is the customer; he hired USPS to deliver something to you - it is his responsibility to file claims, make phone calls, and fill out paperwork. All you should be doing is passing along any forms that need your signature; he purchased the insurance, not you. If he left the package on his doorstep and it got nicked before the postman showed up, that is his responsibility, not yours and not USPS, and he needs to make things right (or receive a big negative feedback, and possibly be taken to small claims court).

If he truly did fulfill his end of the deal, and he can give compelling evidence that the package was delivered into USPS custody (CCTV of the postman picking it up, a live confirmation from USPS that they did receive it, etc) but for some reason USPS chooses not to pay out, I don't think he deserves a negative feedback rating or should be held responsible. In that unlikely event, however, a good person would do SOMETHING to make things right.

That said, I think you're being hoodwinked.

When speaking with USPS Customer Affairs, they said that EITHER party can handle the paperwork - shipper or recipient.

As for the pickup email, I see nothing in it that makes it look bogus.

[Dayspring]

Here's a redacted copy of the confirmation email:

2013-12-19 204000_redacted.pdf


I do email marketing on a daily basis - I see nothing here that would raise a red flag that this is bogus.

[Frizzle Fry]

When speaking with USPS Customer Affairs, they said that EITHER party can handle the paperwork - shipper or recipient.

That's technically true, but there's no reason you should bear the burden of fighting to get the insurance payout - it should be his responsibility.

As for the pickup email, I see nothing in it that makes it look bogus.

It's a template/formletter, right? Sent automatically?

Anybody who's ever received one before (or seen one before) can mock it up with whatever information they want using image edition software, then do a PDF capture. Not hard.

By the way, you HAVE seen something to make it look bogus; these notifications are sent out when USPS scans the item at pickup - they didn't scan the item, or it would appear on the tracking page.


***EDIT***

I do email marketing on a daily basis - I see nothing here that would raise a red flag that this is bogus.

That looks like a scanned printout of an email - very easy to fake! I could make that with MS Word alone, print it, and scan it.

Of the errors I can see, it lists the number of packages under "Pickup Time", the weight under "Total Packages" and the location under "Weight".

Beyond that, "any other use of the email by you is prohibited" doesn't sound authentic.



Ask him to forward it to you... Not a scan, not a screengrab, forward the actual email.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Ask him to forward you the original e-mail. Why he would go to the trouble of turning it into a PDF is odd.
The suspect thing to me is the subject line:
(No Subject)

I just looked at the 20+ e-mails I have on file from USPS and none of them have no subject.

[Frizzle Fry]

Ask him to forward you the original e-mail. Why he would go to the trouble of turning it into a PDF is odd.
The suspect thing to me is the subject line:
(No Subject)

I just looked at the 20+ e-mails I have on file from USPS and none of them have no subject.

This one I just got does!















I did that on my cellphone using GIMP. It took four minutes. And I got the categories lined up properly, too!

[Levi]

That looks like a scanned printout of an email - very easy to fake! I could make that with MS Word alone, print it, and scan it.

Of the errors I can see, it lists the number of packages under "Pickup Time", the weight under "Total Packages" and the location under "Weight".

Beyond that, "any other use of the email by you is prohibited" doesn't sound authentic.



Ask him to forward it to you... Not a scan, not a screengrab, forward the actual email.

This is definitely a scanned image. If you zoom in on any of the text or images they have "fuzzy" edges, this is called aliasing, it is an a artifact of taking an image of a physical copy. If you took a pdf copy of the email you should be able to zoom in and still have crisp defined edges on everything. Not to mention, there are a couple spots that are either stains on the paper or spots on the scanner glass, and I see at least one hair on there too.

While not a smoking gun, this looks fishy to me too. I would not accept this as proof of shipment. He needs to forward the actual email to you.

[Dayspring]

Keep in mind guys - not everybody has a full version of Adobe - he printed the email & scanned it in.

[Dayspring]

Ask him to forward you the original e-mail. Why he would go to the trouble of turning it into a PDF is odd.
The suspect thing to me is the subject line:
(No Subject)

I just looked at the 20+ e-mails I have on file from USPS and none of them have no subject.

He forwarded it from Hotmail to his Outlook account so far as I can tell.

[Flatliner333]

FYI...I feel your pain, though not a marker I recieved my USPS package from a trade deal only to find Major parts missing and the box looks like it's been through hell and back and then re taped. The shipper estimated $30 shipping in the deal but only spent $18 and he did not get insurance on it .

[Justus]

Yeah, on top of that the email says there were 3 total packages picked up by USPS on that date. Any of them could have been your package, or NONE of them could be your package. There's nothing to link the confirmation number on that email to your package tracking number.

Best bet is that your package never got picked up. It wasn't one of the 3 boxes with a total combined weight of 15 lbs.

Only the seller knows how many boxes he set outside on his porch, and whether any of those boxes had an address label with your name on it.


EDIT: And if those emails are automated at the time of pickup, then why did it take two days for it to get sent? Pickup date was allegedly 12/14, and the email was allegedly sent to him on 12/16. When USPS sends me emails, I get them within 2 minutes of a scan or tracking number issuance, not 2 days.

[Frizzle Fry]

Yeah, on top of that the email says there were 3 total packages picked up by USPS on that date. Any of them could have been your package, or NONE of them could be your package. There's nothing to link the confirmation number on that email to your package tracking number.

Best bet is that your package never got picked up. It wasn't one of the 3 boxes with a total combined weight of 15 lbs.

Only the seller knows how many boxes he set outside on his porch, and whether any of those boxes had an address label with your name on it.

Let's see the tracking #s for the OTHER two boxes.

[Justus]

Dayspring, we're not hammering on you for this. Hope you know that. We're just extremely skeptical of this seller's claims to you. It's not adding up.

I'm afraid you're giving this guy a pass because you really hope you haven't been scammed. But the fact that he's apparently making it your problem, and isn't being proactive about making it right, speaks volumes.

I've been in those shoes before. Mine's not a Nigerian Prince story, but it's close: Ages ago when I was selling off my Playstation2 on eBay, a guy from New York bought it. In an email he told me that he was going on a mission trip to Nigeria and wanted it shipped to the Mission there. He sent me a bogus Western Union Moneygram and told me to ship. I was naive, and the confirmation email looked okay, so I shipped. There was something off about it, but I didn't want it to be off. I wanted the deal to be done. So I overlooked it. Luckily, my postal carrier didn't. Instead of shipping it off to Nigeria, he brought it back to my apartment and had a chat with me about all the scams he had been seeing. I waited another couple days and the scam flushed out. Due to a very observant postal carrier, I didn't lose my PS2, and was able to file a claim with eBay for sellers' expenses and then relist it. I got lucky.

Regardless of whether this is a scam or it's just a case of USPS gone stupid, I want it to come out okay for you.

[Frizzle Fry]

Justus, good point.

Dayspring, we all love you man, and we're worried you're getting screwed for being a nice guy. I'm sorry if that came off as anything else.




Basically what we're saying is you don't mess with the Day Wang.

[OPBN]

Who the hell leaves packages sitting on their porch to get picked up??? I live in BFE with little to no traffic by my house and would never dream of leaving a (assuming) $400+ package sitting waiting on the postman. I run most packages up to the post office regardless of value. Only exception being, I will occasionally put things in the mailbox, but I can literally see them from my desk as I'm working. Other times I will just put the flag up and the mailman knows if nothing is there I have a package inside the house that won't fit and he waits for me to bring it out. Small town convenience I know but still....

I also agree about the modifying the marker prior to you getting your part of the deal. Seems fishy. Too many things scream BS to me.

[Levi]

Dayspring, we're not hammering on you for this. Hope you know that. We're just extremely skeptical of this seller's claims to you. It's not adding up.

I'm afraid you're giving this guy a pass because you really hope you haven't been scammed. But the fact that he's apparently making it your problem, and isn't being proactive about making it right, speaks volumes.

Yep! Same here.

Even if he's not scamming you, it was his responsibility to deliver the package into the hands of the USPS. If your package disappeared off his doorstep before USPS picked it up that is his responsibility. He could have made the choice to go into a post office and hand it across the counter, it sounds like he left it unattended on his doorstep instead. Unless you were told beforehand that this was going to be the case, that was his choice and it should follow that the responsibility and consequences for that choice should also be his.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Keep in mind guys - not everybody has a full version of Adobe - he printed the email & scanned it in.

I'm with the rest of the pitchfork and torches mob here. Why on earth would he print an e-mail, scan the printout, then e-mail it again? I'm sure there is an explanation for it. But that is the problem here, many things that require an explanation.

[skipdogg]

I agree with others. Sounds sketch.

[Dayspring]

Yep! Same here.

Even if he's not scamming you, it was his responsibility to deliver the package into the hands of the USPS. If your package disappeared off his doorstep before USPS picked it up that is his responsibility. He could have made the choice to go into a post office and hand it across the counter, it sounds like he left it unattended on his doorstep instead. Unless you were told beforehand that this was going to be the case, that was his choice and it should follow that the responsibility and consequences for that choice should also be his.

Not giving ANYBODY a pass here. He's actually be very communicative w/ me over all this. (though, not much to talk about at this very moment)