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Thread: classic RT valve issue or 4500 Flatline reg issue?

  1. #1
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    classic RT valve issue or 4500 Flatline reg issue?

    I've had and used my classic RT for years and years. The last time I played I replaced every Oring and the bolt spring. But today finished me off. I've got to find my problem.

    Basic gun stats. Bone stock classic RT with level 7 bolt and a Ygrip with a 4500 AGD flatline feeding its air. Input set at 900-950.

    New valve Orings. New bolt spring. On off pin is the same 0.744 that its been the last dekade. Good gap on the trigger rod pin and the trigger. I even removed and checked and cleaned every Oring in the valve last night. All perfect. The flatline I have not touched since I bought it last year. And who knows how long its been since it was dismantled.

    On to the issue.
    When I air up the gun it will work fine. But every now and then its reactivity skyrockets. Totally unexpected and uncontrollably. And sometimes in the midst of this it fires on the pull and release of the trigger. But it is firing so fast that it could just be resetting in the blink of an eye. And not an actual trigger return fire. Any help would be great. Like I stated above. ON OFF pin is perfect. Sear looks like new. And bolt looks great. Trigger pin gap is also a credit card if not a hair more.

  2. #2
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    Check the out put on the tank.. the reg could be creeping.. and check the reg pin in the valve and make sure its together properly or there is no crap in it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post
    Check the out put on the tank.. the reg could be creeping.. and check the reg pin in the valve and make sure its together properly or there is no crap in it.
    Reg pin is all together how it should be. And clean. Its been apart a couple of times recently. Last night was a major scrub down borderlining clean room style to make sure that wasn't it.

    The flatline reg creep is what I was really thinking. But since I've NEVER dealt with that issue. Really wasn't sure. The output gauge has never worked satisfactory to me. That's why I put a rough output pressure I keep it set at. But come to think about it. Last night I lowered the reg pressure a lot to get it showing back in the range I always kept it. And with a turny lock it isn't like it spun up. So if the above symptoms can be caused by reg creep on my flatline I would almost guarantee that is the issue. What do you think oll wise one? ;-)

    EDIT to add. I should point out this has been a small issue for the last couple games I played. Maybe just the last game. But it started out being so subtle I basically assumed that I just fat fingered the trigger. But today. Halfway through the last game it was somewhat Awal. May work fine 2 or 3 shots. Then full auto the likes BTs best video has never seen.
    Last edited by blackdeath1k; 03-22-2014 at 10:37 PM.

  4. #4
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    The regulator creep from the flatline would make it more reactive and hard to control. You would be able to feel the increase in trigger kick if that happened. If you are not really noticing any increase in trigger kick back, but do notice it going full auto or firing on the pull and release, it is probably a timing issue where the on-off is releasing air before the sear can rotate far enough to lock the bolt in the reset position. That doesn't mean the on-off is bad or even the on-off orings are bad.

    There are typically three things linked to timing of an automag. The sear/bolt interaction, the sear/on-off interaction, and the on-off length.

    If the regulator on the flatline is creeping, it may be more noticeable as the air pressure gets lower in the tank. The orings don't seal as well at lower pressures, especially if they have a blemish in them.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  5. #5
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    Well following your comments Athomas. I'm guessing the reg seat is the issue. In years past when setting up the marker I played with input pressures to find what I liked. At one time I used 1100PSI on my megareg. But I expected its reactivity because that was how it was set up. Now a days I'm playing with it set at 900-950. So a lot less reactivity. So when it gets sparatic its not planned and my best description is that it acts more like 1100 psi or far worse at times. Well with the reg creep it could be far worse at times? CORRECT? As far as amount of air in the bottle. Fri night when It was bad the bottle had about 1500-1800 in it when I checked. Tore valve apart. Checked and cleaned everything. Topped it off with what was in my scuba so 2200 give or take. It got better. I thought all was well. We got to the field Saturday and got a fill. Think 4k was what my top fill left me. Ran great until the end of the day. Final battle I got down to 2500psi I guess. (Based on what's in the tank now). So that would tell me the issue theoretically got a little worse and starts being a problem at 2500ish vs the 2k it became a weird issue at Fri night.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    So when it gets sparatic its not planned and my best description is that it acts more like 1100 psi or far worse at times. Well with the reg creep it could be far worse at times? CORRECT?
    Yes



    I would say based on your description of the events and when they occured, that it is linked to the pressure in the tank, which would lend credence to the flat line regulator creep issue. It apprears very likely to be the regulator seat oring in that device.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for potentially confirming what I've been worried about all along. This is sad times. I'm breaking down and going to a screw in bottle.

    Yes I know I can fix the flatline. And yes I know screw in tanks now a days are just as nice and lighter than the best tanks of the 90s. But its still burnt in my head only people on an econo budget use screw in nitro tanks. Because the first screw in tanks were cheap and lower quality. Oh how times have changed.

  8. #8
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    Yeah, I have a couple of adjustable regulators kicking around, and yet I only use my screw in tanks now. They actually make it easier to switch multiple tanks between guns. This comes in especially handy if you need to lend a tank or get a loan of a tank for any reason.

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