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Thread: barrel kits, correct bore. idk

  1. #1

    Question barrel kits, correct bore. idk

    ok im used to barrels being one bore all the way older ones you would call it now lol, i picked up a kit a year or so ago and i cant wrap my head around on how it starts off perfect then goes to a larger bore down the barrel, that doesnt seem like im getting the best air to ball ratio or whatever. so these new dw cf barrels u freak sleeve them and one barrel with a sleeve does the job? wouldnt u want the barrel to be one size the entire way? like a barrel kit come with 10 barrels? i dont like the sleeve idea where its perfect part of the way then larger done to the tip!?


    thoughts? good kit to use?

  2. #2
    the way I understand it is the first 8 inches is your actual barrel and the rest is to let the ball recover its round shape before it leaves the end.

  3. #3
    Inserted barrel kits, like the freak barrels, are simple and economical way to bore match. They aren't as efficient as a barrel that is the same bore all the way through. Or one that has a longer control bore. There are a few barrels out there that do offer a control bore that is significantly longer. The barrel kit from the Empire Sniper and Resurrection has a longer control bore. Can't recall the exact length. Lurker makes a really nice barrel kit that also has a crazy long control bore. I've used both and have been pleased with both. I think Lurkers kit is probably the best kit out there for the money. Inception's Stell kit also has longer control bores and offers tips in a couple of different sizes to try and match paint as much as possible. I haven't personally used one, but they look real nice.
    Last edited by dboggs79; 07-22-2014 at 01:11 AM.

  4. #4
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    If you can find a bore kit where the id is not so large on the rest of the barrel, it will still give you pretty good acceleration if the porting isn't too heavy. I use the Equation kits. They only have a 0.695" id for their barrel extension and tips. That's pretty small given the fact that I use a 0.696" back on my competition X-ball gun with an Empire kit. I get really good efficiency with the Equation kits and the sound is nice and quiet. Unfortunately they don't make them anymore.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  5. #5
    So how many sizes does one need on a full kit, I know there is small bore and large bore....paint these days r small bore right?

  6. #6
    How about the dye ultra light and/or cp kits--those look like the backs are a decent length.

  7. #7
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    depends on the size of the paints available locally to you and / or what paint you use. in general, most barrel kits will accommodate .679-.693. for a freak kit, that's seven inserts. if paint is fresh, go with an underbore (barrel bore equal to or slightly smaller than the smallest diameter of the smallest paintball), as that will give you consistent shots over the chronograph, and be the most gas-efficient. if you have really crappy paint (old and brittle, very oblong, etc) or it's very cold out (cold will make the shells more brittle), an overbore is fine (barrel bore a couple sizes larger than the largest diameter of the largest paintball). it will be consistent, and help prevent barrel breaks, but an overbore is less gas efficient as more air bypasses the ball, instead of pushing it down the barrel.

    avoid ball "matching", as there is no such thing. paintballs all vary in size within the bag, and all paintballs are slightly oblong. you can have one paintball be a snug fit in a bore, and be able to blow it out (slight underbore), and then turn it have either have it jam hard in the barrel or roll right down. or one paintball is a snug fit, and another rolls down the barrel, or another jams hard. this is what causes ball to barrel "matches" to be the most inconsistent in velocity over the chronograph. some balls will be larger, and fit tighter thus result in higher fps, others will roll right down the barrel resulting in lower velocity. even if the paint is all the same size, you still have the two differing diameters that every paintball has...it will be loaded into the barrel at random, and can either be a press fit or roll out depending on how it's loaded.

    this is why i have a ball sizer, and get at least a 30-ball sample. i measure the paintballs largest and smallest diameter over that sample. that way i know the exact size to use for an overbore (for ideal conditions), or the size i need for an overbore for less-than-ideal conditions. if you're properly underboring, every ball is at least a snug fit, regardless of the relative size or how it was loaded into the barrel. or if you're overboring, every ball is rolling down the barrel.

  8. #8
    So, I just looked up the lurker barrels--they really are some of the longest backs I've seen! But, they only come in a .679 and a .684 back. They come in one that is .69X (don't remember, but irrelevant for me, because I can't even find paint that large anymore). I've got a full freak kit but have always been curious about the longer backs (dye ultra light, CP, and definitely now the lurker). I have a CP one piece at .689 that I use on my mag, but I like to get a decent match with the freak kit on my CCM T2. Wonder if a .684 lurker would probably handle most of what my .689 CP is slightly too big for.

    Anyone know after how many inches the bore widens on those one piece CP barrels?

    --Edit--

    I'd like to ween myself away from the freak kit and invest in longer backed barrels or even a set of one-piece barrels if they'd come in various bore sizes, but I can't find a kit out there that accommodates as many bore sizes as the freak kit. Thoughts?

  9. #9
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    the lurker comes in .678, .684 and .690 sized backs. i could see the .690 getting use for an overbore during winter play, or with really bad / oblong paint.

    another worth looking into if you want longer backs are flasc barrels.

  10. #10
    So is there really nothing to be said for longer controlled bores? I mean, the companies that make them of course say they are more effective. If that is the case, wouldn't there be more kits out there with longer backs?

    Maybe freak kits are fine--rock a 12" tip and there can't be a big difference, right?

  11. #11
    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ncy-Tech-Tip-1
    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ing-Tech-Tip-2
    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...lls-Tech-Tip-3

    People smarter than me have done the research. As for why so many companies stray from what's been proven, who knows?

  12. #12
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    You will get more efficiency with a longer control bore. If you are not worried about efficiency, then don't worry about the length of the control bore. If you want the best shot to shot consistency, use a control bore that is only 1". Your efficiency will be really bad, but your balls will shoot really straight and consistent. This is because the short control bore does not have as much contact with the ball to impart any spin.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    You will get more efficiency with a longer control bore. If you are not worried about efficiency, then don't worry about the length of the control bore. If you want the best shot to shot consistency, use a control bore that is only 1". Your efficiency will be really bad, but your balls will shoot really straight and consistent. This is because the short control bore does not have as much contact with the ball to impart any spin.
    i'd like to see that tested. you'ld have to hand-sort the paintballs to ensure they're as consistent in size as possible to mitigate that variable. and bench-mount the marker. probably try to test indoors if possible; don't want the wind screwing with you. where is cockerpunk when you need him? hey cockerpunk, come test this!

  14. #14
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    I use my extra long Freak tip.









  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude View Post
    i'd like to see that tested. you'ld have to hand-sort the paintballs to ensure they're as consistent in size as possible to mitigate that variable. and bench-mount the marker. probably try to test indoors if possible; don't want the wind screwing with you. where is cockerpunk when you need him? hey cockerpunk, come test this!
    The reason you get better shot to shot consistency is because you are eliminating or at least reducing one of the variables, which is the control bore. Years ago, if we had paint that was really bad and you couldn't get any accuracy, we just went to a shorty 5" barrel. Efficiency went out the window, but accuracy increased dramatically. After that I played around with the lengths and found that a barrel just long enough to actually accelerate the ball, produced the best accuracy for any given paint. You could shoot with a 2" barrel. It worked really well, but it was loud as heck and you couldn't get any amount of shots out of a tank. You are always going to find the anomoly in your paint that is going to be bad no matter what. But for average paint that you cannot control, a short control bore proved to be quite good. We surmised that the lack of a barrel and the rapid acceleration in such a short distance couldn't impart any unnecessary spin on the ball. You are always going to get some spin, but you don't want to actually accelerate one side alot more than the other.

  16. #16
    well i remember on older barrels that were the same size through i could get some serious distance.... what can i do to recoup this loss?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    I use my extra long Freak tip.
    thats all the length you use allen?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT Lover View Post
    well i remember on older barrels that were the same size through i could get some serious distance.... what can i do to recoup this loss?
    this is not true. regardless of barrel (with the exception of flatline / apex and different projectiles; first strike, etc), a paintball leaving the end of a barrel at 280fps will travel the same distance. so 18" single bore, or freak with a 5" control bore and the rest .7 overbored...doesn't matter, if the velocity is the same the distance will be the same. it's basic physics.

    now, if you were remember greater distances from paintball guns say...in the mid-ninties, you have to keep in mind that the field limit back then was 300fps. so in that case, yes, those paintballs would fly farther, because they are moving faster and cover more ground before gravity (which is constant) pulls them down into the dirt.

  19. #19
    field we ran 280, i know for sure i worked there... i was paid with paint lol!!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT Lover View Post
    well i remember on older barrels that were the same size through i could get some serious distance.... what can i do to recoup this loss?
    It is a myth that one barrel gives more distance than another. You can't beat physics where the horizontal speed is equal in all barrels and gravity pulling the ball down is also equal. Therefore, all barrels shoot the same distance. The exception are barrels that impart a controlled bottom spin on the ball to cause the magnus effect and provide extra lift. These balls will travel farther but at the expense of impact power and accuracy.

    Certain guns seemed to shoot farther than others, but that was just perception based on the location of the barrel positioned in the body, causing the tip of the barrel to be elevated from level giving the fired ball some extra arc.

  21. #21
    right now it doesn't seem I have very good accuracy I have a barrel kit!!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT Lover View Post
    right now it doesn't seem I have very good accuracy I have a barrel kit!!
    well, paintballs are an inherently poor projectile. the best you can do is make sure your barrel is clean, make sure your paint is clean, and try to get the best paintballs possible. higher end paint has smoother seams, and is generally more consistent in size and shape (there are exceptions as always).

    for shot spread, the smoother the seam the better. the air will catch a larger seam as the ball slows down and it'll end up in a larger shot spread. rntlee did some pretty cool tests that were posted on the milsig forums (long gone, which is a shame). in a nutshell, crappy paint with large seams that catch the fingernail had a larger shot spread. he took the same paint, shaved the seams down smooth with a razor and shot them through the same bench-mounted marker. they had a much tighter shot spread, comparable to marballizers (which have very smooth seams).

    paintballs that are consistent in size and shape will have consistent velocities over the chronograph. meaning, they will all travel about the same distance, and fall in the same general area. paint that is less consistent will have a wider velocity range, which means some paint will exit the barrel faster (and travel farther), thus overshooting your target. meanwhile, the smaller sizes will exit slower (and travel a shorter distance), thus falling short of your target.

    the ideal is a perfectly smooth, perfectly round paintball, where every paintball is the exact same size.

  23. #23
    i remember years ago on the crono it being damn consistent with numbers, now i notice a +/- 20 fps on my markers that would usually run +/- 10 fps

    so should i run a slightly tighter bore on my barrels?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by RT Lover View Post
    i remember years ago on the crono it being damn consistent with numbers, now i notice a +/- 20 fps on my markers that would usually run +/- 10 fps

    so should i run a slightly tighter bore on my barrels?
    Sounds like you've got some bad paint if its jumping +/- 20 fps. That or you need some maintenance and tuning done on your marker.

  25. #25
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    it could be your paint. especially if you used high-end paint years ago (however long ago that was). for example, the marballizers you could get 10+ years ago are not the same marballizers that you get these days...unfortunately.

    it could also be your bore though. if your barrel bore is an average of your paint size, it will be less consistent. you either want a slight underbore based on the smallest dimension of the smallest paintball, or an overbore based on the largest dimension of the largest paintball. a ball sizer is handy here, and a large sample size.

  26. #26
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    Under boring is more efficient, but one brittle ball can cause a big mess when it gets mashed into a barrel that is too tight.

    Over boring gives up efficiency but pretty much guarantees no barrel breaks.

    Both provide excellent consistency averaging. I personally use over boring.

  27. #27
    so just snug right at the top? how far down the barrel b4 it gets bigger?

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