The Cocker guys have all the fun..

[going_home]

If you havent read the thread over on Inception you may not understand this thread.

[TyeStick]

It would be nice to see a body that breaks the mold of the AGD ULE "standard".... Like a body that uses more common and less obtrusive detents and a non-threaded feedneck (see renie's unibody concept).

I agree. 100%.

I like it when you use smilies like this^.

[djinnform]

After just finishing my first Cocker, I find the opposite is true. I think Mags have all the fun. I find a lot less options for my Cocker, and less modularity which limits choices. All the different parts available, new or old, do exactly the same thing. I don't feel the pulling addiction to keep constantly changing Cocker parts. Like, you just buy the Belsales ram and LPR, and you're done. What else do you need beside the MQ2, what would it really do? The E-Blade is perfect, out of the box. Why change it? Once you buy the an Inception body, would you ever swap it?

Let's look at the variety here?


Cockers:

1. mech pump - makes it a pump
2 mech pneu semi - electro pneu semi - shoots faster- no longer pump
3. half block - keeps back block from hitting your mask


Except for the one guy who made the pneumatic pump (very cool), that's all you have to really choose from: 3 things. The sub-categories between these 3 types of Cockers are all very similar, with the only variance being the efficiency, and feeling, such as the feeling of the CCM internals-smooth pulling. No matter what beautiful or new clothes that you dress the new Cockers up, and the new parts, they are not much different from their legendary ancestors in function. I.e. the old Karni body is cool, and the new Inception bodies are cool, but their functions are very similar. So all the variance is purely cosmetic, or aesthetic.

With Mags, the combinations are more extensive in regards to function. These mechanical choices below, all yield totally different guns. Since the combinations are more than just 3, and all parts being modular, you have more total combinations of guns that are totally different. You can spend your entire life, building and testing new Mag ideas --and make completely different guns, while your wife gets mad.

Mags:

1. X-Valve - has RT effect - light - air hog
2. X-Valve - no RT - calms you down
3. Classic Valve - has adjustable velocity thumb knob - heavy
4. Titanium Classic Valve - sparks green with static electricity
5. Pump - classifies gun as pump
6. Pneu or Electro frame - shoots faster - light trigger pull
7. Mech Frame - has bounce in trigger
8. SS body - allows line of sight down the body
9. 45, Angel, Z, Y, shape frames - changes ergonomics radically, and radical change in look of gun
10. twist-lock barrel option, allows insane accuracy have the breach built into the actual barrel - heavy
11. power feed - puts hopper below gun - get's it out of the way

[athomas]

11. power feed - puts hopper below gun - get's it out of the way

This one should be Warp feed.

Powerfeed should be another option on the list though, that AGD actually had a hand in developing. In body styles, you have the option of left or right standard feed, or left or right powerfeed.

[BigEvil]

Simons watermark is selling at least 100 parts.

That is just unrealistic in the mag community.

There were over 100 M90s sold. I think how something sells depends on a bunch of variables. AO is NOT the only or probably even the best place to market something. AGD has a much greater reach than this forum does. If you have an AGD product you know how to contact them, but you probably dont know about this place.

Facebook is another good example. I have been taking work from people on Facebook who have no clue what this is here and really have no interest.

It would be nice to see a body that breaks the mold of the AGD ULE "standard".... Like a body that uses more common and less obtrusive detents and a non-threaded feedneck (see renie's unibody concept).

That all sounds good and would be cool but be careful what you wish for. A perfect example are those stupid sears and axle pins PTP uses. Good luck if you need one now. There is wisdom using parts that are common and readily available. There will always be Angel detents because AGD and a few other places makes them, ect ect ect..

It would be greatly beneficial for figure out how to reduce the complexity of manufacturing some parts. However, by doing so could also decrease their desirability too.

[bowcycle]

I think someone already mentioned this, but with cockers, there is a definite upgrade path of possibilities. On our beloved mags, almost all of these parts are not actually upgrades, but just visual/ergonomic changes.

One other benefit to cockers is my opinion is that i can pick up a block body for $25 and mill the mess out of it. If i jack it up, i buy another one and give it another go. So i have a practice body and the real one all for about $50.
I don't see many people trying custom milling on stock mag bodies (not much material).

[BigEvil]

Yes, and a slug mag body is about $180.

[Spider-TW]

Since I'm directly involved with Niche & the Nemesis. Alot has to do with funding. There isn't a single point of funding in the automag community.

Does that mean there is a single point of funding for cockers?

[BigEvil]

Does that mean there is a single point of funding for cockers?

For those particular ones possibly.

[cougar20th]

I was refering to Nemesis only.

[Spider-TW]

I was refering to Nemesis only.

Ah, single point for a whole new model marker. Thank you.

I see what you mean.

[Xmagterror]

There's really no reason why the AO community couldn't have a new from scratch made automag based gun. We would need to sell at least 50 to make it worth while. That would spread the design cost/setup time across a good number of parts to lower the cost. Maybe cougar could design and Luke and I could split the production to speed things up. Any things possible. A full 3D machined modern looking gun would run about $1400-1600 after you put a valve in it and get good anodizing. It wouldn't be cheap, but nothing good ever is.

[luke]

There's really no reason why the AO community couldn't have a new from scratch made automag based gun. We would need to sell at least 50 to make it worth while. That would spread the design cost/setup time across a good number of parts to lower the cost. Maybe cougar could design and Luke and I could split the production to speed things up. Any things possible. A full 3D machined modern looking gun would run about $1400-1600 though after you put a valve in it and get good anodizing. It wouldn't be cheap but nothing good ever is.

I'm in!

We could call it the:
XLC Automag
CLX Automag
LXC Automag
CXL Automag

Any combination sounds good.

[Xmagterror]

I'm in!

We could call it the:
XLC Automag
CLX Automag
LXC Automag
CXL Automag

Any combination sounds good.

Haha....we need a better name Luke.

[cougar20th]

There's really no reason why the AO community couldn't have a new from scratch made automag based gun. We would need to sell at least 50 to make it worth while. That would spread the design cost/setup time across a good number of parts to lower the cost. Maybe cougar could design and Luke and I could split the production to speed things up. Any things possible. A full 3D machined modern looking gun would run about $1400-1600 after you put a valve in it and get good anodizing. It wouldn't be cheap, but nothing good ever is.

I'm in!

We could call it the:
XLC Automag
CLX Automag
LXC Automag
CXL Automag

Any combination sounds good.

Lets talk, Ill try to get something more private set up for that.

[ScottyBeans]

Lets talk, Ill try to get something more private set up for that.

Well, pretty excited to see if anything comes of this.

For the record, I don't think CLX is a bad name at all.

[Laku]

That would be pretty sweet!

[GoatBoy]

Sorry, haven't seen the Inception thread myself.

That all sounds good and would be cool but be careful what you wish for. A perfect example are those stupid sears and axle pins PTP uses. Good luck if you need one now. There is wisdom using parts that are common and readily available. There will always be Angel detents because AGD and a few other places makes them, ect ect ect..

It would be greatly beneficial for figure out how to reduce the complexity of manufacturing some parts. However, by doing so could also decrease their desirability too.

You mean like press-fitting a normal, unthreaded 1/8" rod into a plastic rail?

Ultimately, the question is: less desirable to *who* though?

I think that AO does represent the minority, and you guys' needs are already covered. If you want expensive, milled, aesthetic stuff, you're already set. There's plenty of stuff for you to choose from. You are clearly the masters of this realm.

What about the rest of the world that just wants a reasonable, functional mag? Not everyone is as polarized as here on AO, crowning over every aesthetic-whatever. Yes, to "appeal" to *this* crowd, you have to pull stuff like that. It's a bit like politics, where to appeal to and win with your own party, you have to kind of go off the deep end and prove you're more extreme than the next guy. But afterwards, to appeal to the general population, you kind of have to move back to the center. Basically, all of you talking amongst yourselves is an exercise in how to go off the deep end.

So consider who exactly would be the target of such a project.

If the target is basically the current audience, then there's no need for anyone else to step in. Your needs are currently covered, and what issues from another party stepping in will not meet your approval.

[blackdeath1k]

I'm interested to see where this goes. Sadly I'm sure I won't be able to buy it.

[luke]

Haha....we need a better name Luke.

Well there was an X-Mag why not an XLC-Mag? I think it flows nicely.

[capt spank]

Make it macroless and people will flock to it

[dodge3500]

I'm very interested in this !!!but macroless doesn't matter to me but a whole new modern mag could be sweet.

[going_home]

Could call it Paragon Mag.

All the lurkers will buy one.

And it will be finished and in the hands of customers before.....

[BigEvil]

Could call it Paragon Mag.

All the lurkers will buy one.

And it will be finished and in the hands of customers before.....

I see what you did there.

[BigEvil]

I'm very interested in this !!!but macroless doesn't matter to me but a whole new modern mag could be sweet.

and SEARLESS!!

Wait, what? HuH?

[luke]

And it will be finished and in the hands of customers before.....

So the idea is 3 hours old and you want a completion date?? lol

My guess is the major hold up will be sales.

[Runamok]

Let's keep it simple and call it Bob.
"that guy with Bob got me again" "Bob never quits" "Bob's a lightweight" "Time to introduce the field to Bob"
"What do you call an Automag that floats?....."
Though I think I'll avoid" I'm going to play with Bob today" Just doesn't sound right.

[dodge3500]

If 50 is a target number and as long as the deposit is 500$ or less to get started I'm in at end of month.just saying.
(Fingers crossed)

[tbaggin]

havin a body milling that flowed into the frame would be sweet too, i have extra Xvalves lyin aroiund, that cuts my cost a lil bit

PLus if Keith was involved (based of his current work), mixed with luke and XMT, you know it will be a super nice mag.

[Skorpion]

"Sorry hun, your birthday has to wait. You see, there's this project I need to save up for."