Tear that puppy up and swap out o-rings, and it sounds like you should be good! And Vantrepes over there is a great dude to listen to. He knows what he's doing.
Registered User
Tear that puppy up and swap out o-rings, and it sounds like you should be good! And Vantrepes over there is a great dude to listen to. He knows what he's doing.
Registered User
One thing the Resurrection has that no other autococker has is a warranty. This is crucial when your a first time cocker owner, only having a couple of Trilogy's in the past and those being pumps, after shooting one at a scenario game, I was hooked. I don't care about the lack of upgrades for it as it shoots perfectly fine to me. Docfire on customcockers.com did an in depth review on it and although mine pinched a bolt oring the first day I used it, it has been my go to gun over my Axe just about anytime I play now a days.
Haters Gonna Hate
trilogies get a bad rep, but they were actually a great setup. in some ways much better than normal cockers, and for new folks to the platform, very very good.Originally Posted by [NA]WARLORD
"because every vengeful cop with a lesbian daughter, is having a bad day, and looking for someone to blame"
Nobody's Perfect
Not really. One of the main attractions of a cocker is the ability to change parts to suit the user. With the fixed 4 way, you lost one point of contention, then the gun specific LPR was another. Plus you had the look of them, well the look of all the later cocker where just ugly. So, it might have been a good gun, yet because they changed so much from the previous cockers, they will never be regalled as a good platform.
www.BigEvilOnline.com
Because this is MUCH LESS COMPLICATED....
Registered User
I agree with this point. Big fan of the 11/16th valve chamber and you never have to worry about the 3 way getting out of time. When you get board with it you can just do what I did, lol
Haters Gonna Hate
if you do not need or want to upgrade things that don't really effect the performance of the gun, they are perfect.
i think kevin has the best video proving the point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HgGFiNWsGg
6X Porking Sloppy
Autocockers can be as much fun and reliable as Automags. When those were the top guns on the market, the thing that caused the most grief to an Autococker owner, was the lack of knowledge and a handy set of Allen wrenches. I regularly used make good money unscrewing up Autococker timing for those who thought they were improving their gun's performance. A lot of the upgrades were either equal to what was in the gun stock, or not that much better. Once set as long as the orings hold up, the timing does change, making them reliable, kind of like an Automag.
The Cocker Haiku:
Did it work Before?
You messed with it didn't you?
Got what you deserve.
When trolls run scared. Mrs E, " Doug I will effin cut you!"
mech warrior
Vantrepes on CC is doing his best to help me, but this project is proving to be a pain in the ass. Can't get the 3-way to stop leaking and it won't fully cock half the time. Looks to me like the ram's piston o-ring might be shot but I don't see how you gain access to the piston...they must've loctited the hell out of the ram body. And for all I can tell, it could be two separate leaks, or the leak could be intermittent - the symptoms I'm experiencing don't really match any of the troubleshooting guides. Now it turns out the non-slotted aftermarket trigger wasn't really meant to be used with the older style 3-way, so now I gotta either buy a slotted trigger plate or a newer 3-way. I know it'll be a reliable shooter once it's set up properly, but what I don't know is how you cocker guys do it. I've put in hours and emptied nearly three full air tanks trying to troubleshoot this thing...I'm about ready to just ship it off to an airsmith and let him deal with it because it's only sucking up all my free time.
Last edited by ghost flanker; 06-11-2015 at 04:44 AM.
Hebrews 13:8
......
Nobody's Perfect
Yup, this is exactly the bad of cocker ownership and what i was talking about 1 part effects the others. Take a deep breath and walk away for a bit. Its harder fixing the unknown because you are trying to undo what the previous owner did, but more worth while in the long run.
Haters Gonna Hate
says the guy who doesn't think the trilogy is a good gun.
you cannot simultaneously condemn cockers for being complicated and unreliable, and then condemn trilogies for not being real cockers. the trilogies solve many of these common setup problems. and less adjustments might be less cocker like, but less adjustments and upgrades, means less for people to mess up.
mech warrior
Nobody's Perfect
If you want a fishing trip, go to the ocean. Try reading what i said then understand what i wrote and come up with a valid argument.
They are complicated. There is a balance of different parts that need to work properly and simultaneously together. Never said they were unreliable. Did say they that if parts were changed on the gun that care needs to be maintained as it can take a working gun to a headache.
The trilogy is a horrible platform. As well as it did to solve the problems to make it easier, it condemned it to be a dead platform. The lack of aftermarket parts, the changes to the body that required new parts to be made specific and proprietary made the platform poor and cheap.
You are so wrong, on so many levels its pitiful...
mech warrior
Honestly, the thing that would keep me from buying a trilogy is the 1.5 finger trigger frame it has on it. Clearly made for nine-year-olds with small hands. Good ergonomics is one of my biggest priorities in a gun.
Haters Gonna Hate
they made ones with a true double, same as all the other swing frames.
Haters Gonna Hate
repeating yourself isn't an argument.
you cants argue a gun is too complicated, then say the less complicated version sucks.
Nobody's Perfect
If by saying that every fact that i have written before is repeating myself. Then i guess the truth hurts.
Yes, cockers can be complicated. Just as some people think carburetors are less complicated than EFI. It is all in what you know and what you are willing to learn.
If the Trilogy was "such" a good gun, why do people:
1) sell them for cheap/can't give them away
2) less upgradable/literally no aftermarket parts
3) ugly
4) going against the basis of what made cockers great(the ability to change every part)
5) the last gasp of WGP before they sold everything to Kee/Empire
Need more reasons?
mech warrior
Cocker punk;
Oh, I didn't know they came in a full double trigger. Still though, I'm a one finger kinda guy
Nobody;
1. Low resale doesn't necessarily mean that a gun is bad. Level 7 mags typically sell in the low $100's and I think they're great guns. Also, Trilogies retailed for basically nothing to begin with.
2. I do like modularity in a gun design. Lack of aftermarket upgrades, though... that is more a reflection of what was popular at the time - namely achieving ever faster rates of fire. To a considerable degree, you're totally right. But a good gun to me is one that doesn't need upgrades. As to whether the Trilogy qualifies, I'll let you two argue opinions over that.
3. I admit, I think they're ugly, too. But I feel the same way about the Autococker SR.
4. I totally get the "build your own cocker" thing. But I'm weird. I like things stock. Bone stock means history and value retention. Also, it's pretty difficult to outsmart engineers who design truly quality products off the bat. Take wheels on a car for example; Mechanical engineers take the time to design OEM wheels to best suit the car they are tailored for. So why then do people swap out their OEM wheels for stupid 22" rims only to diminish their vehicles' performance and resale? Style? Quite often, upgrades aren't really upgrades. There's been untold millions made off snake oil products sold to paintball customers (aftermarket barrels, anyone?), and unless an aftermarket upgrade accomplishes something revolutionary, then what's the point?
5. Pretty much. They knew they could no longer compete with the likes of Dye, Bob Long, and Planet Eclipse in the ROF arms race, so WGP rolled the dice with an unfortunate business decision that had them compete for another market dominated by an even larger competitor, Tippmann. Trilogies were also made in China, no?
Of course I say all this without ever having shot a Trilogy before. Playing devils advocate, more or less. For all I know, I could fall in love with them or hate the holy hell out of them.
Last edited by ghost flanker; 06-11-2015 at 09:17 PM.
www.BigEvilOnline.com
There are thousands of lvl7 mags out there and have been out on the market since the early 90s. Different economic forces at work.
Haters Gonna Hate
there are not thousands of trilogies? and as pointed out, with an initial price starting in the 120s, where do you think would end up nearly 10 years later? nowhere to go but down.
and i can't imagine how cheap price, simplified operation, and ease of use could ever be bad things for a guys first cocker. its like i've entered the bizzaro world of AO again. where folks are so happy to argue against me, that they loop back on themselves and now there arguments conflict with each other. lol. i thought we didn't like cockers because they were overly complicated and unreliable? solve these problems, and add in a cheaper price and the guns are still bad? what. the. actual. ****.
and as far as upgradbablity, they are actually fairly easy to upgrade, if you know where to look and want to actually upgrade one.
www.BigEvilOnline.com
There might (and I stress that word) have been a large number produced, but if they sold they would not have been the dismal failure that they were. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a container of them sitting around somewhere it 'thousands' were produced.
Haters Gonna Hate
there were certainly thousands sold, even back then.
didn't know resale price was such a ego builder around here .... all the more reason you two don't like my 60 dollar azodin thread .... haters gonna hate
6X Porking Sloppy
While Trilogies were not completely horrible as a paintball gun goes, they definitely were not one of WGP's finer moments. They never had the favor of the market like the original Autococker platform did. Everyone and their brother made parts to fit an Autococker. By the time the Trilogy hit the market, the space ***** had come into favor. Had WGP released them a few years prior to that, people might have looked at the Trilogy in a better light. Market timing is everything, miss the window of opportunity and a diamond of a product, becomes an unpolished turd.
www.BigEvilOnline.com
Sometimes I think you just put random words together in sentences and hit "REPLY"
Haters Gonna Hate
yup, it was competing against used ions, and electro blowbacks. both were clearly superior from a firepower standpoint. when the electro trilogy finally came out, it was far far too late. although that gun again, was kinda of quirky and fun gun in and of itself too. WGP simply relied on 'closed bolt accuracy' for too long, and the market moved on. and then even worse was the buy out, at exactly the right time for bud orr, but exactly the wrong time for cockers. im sure that caused at least 6 months to a year of lost development time, making it again, even tougher to catch back up. and by the time they did release those guns, they were past there market prime by 2-3 years.
IMO WGP was not a very well run company even its heyday, but its demise was a particularly bad set of circumstances, with bad product engineering, and a bad market.
still, the trilogies were not bad guns, and for what they cost, what they are, is kinda amazingly good. and, pretty much perfect for a first time cocker user.
6X Porking Sloppy
The thousands of Trilogies produced didn't move in the market. They collected dust on the shelves of many shops and were blown out on Ebay for pennies on the dollar later. If they had caught on in a big enough way, there would have been more aftermarket parts produced. As it was though, they were looked at as a market failure. While an Autococker is noted for being complicated vs a Mag, the tolerances for a Mag to work under are tighter out of the box than the Autococker. Mags also have less knobs to turn to get them to work normally. The Autococker just has more readily available knobs that can be easily user adjusted for good or bad.
Part of the fun for someone playing with a Cocker is that same overly complicated way of getting it to cycle, and what was a virtual unlimited variety of parts available. The Trilogy doesn't have that.
U R techno-literate!
The trilogy pro with the forward slanted reg had a double. You can fit a slider frame on there; some may need a little work to get around the valve retention screw.Cocker punk;
Oh, I didn't know they came in a full double trigger. Still though, I'm a one finger kinda guy
My cockers, working or not, keep turning into pumps. I could put one together with the parts I have now. Whenever I see one, it reminds me of playing tournaments in 1990/1. There was a guy with either a Palmers nasty hurricane or its predecessor (maybe homemade being in San Antonio); a double barreled concoction of rams and valves. Most of the rest of us had F-1 illustrators or unibody phantoms. The double barrel was impressive, but the rest looked like a pain.
As long as your dinking around as a hobby, an autococker can suck up your time as well as anything. Half the fun is trying to make a Rube Goldberg machine work reliably.
Hebrews 13:8
By far the best description of a cocker yet !
Nobody's Perfect
Sorry, this got buried and did wish to explain.
Resale is a double edged sword. It shows that the market is barely there and you can pick them up for next to nothing but because there is no market the prices go down because they aren't very good. L7 mags are a bad example because the valves aren't bad nor are the "mods" just for a certain type of AGD valve(ULT being the exception to not being used in classic valves). Its just that the Xvalve is more desirable, being lighter, able to RT, anno'd and faster. It is a better argument using ReTro or Emag valves, as they can do everything an X can but will sit at price.
But the market does dictate the price at which it sells at, regardless of how good it might have been. If no one wants them, then they get cheap are not as good as standard cockers, then the market shows the truth.
This is where the nostalgia factor is wrong and stock is best be looked through rose coloured glasses. By 99, the stock pneumatics were usable. Gone were the timing rods that were not threaded(slip fit. A round rod tightened with 2 sets screws, often would come undone), taking the frame off to access the sear lug, the threaded IVG, rams that had a life of 1000's of cycles, 4ways that would leak out of the factory, hoses that would blow off and just unreliable HPRs.
The cocker, you can say was pushed by the pro-teams for performance and reliability. Many vuns of that era needed aftermarket parts to achieve performance but also made the gun reliable and consistent. So it is more of how you want to go with it, which is the greatest ability of changing the parts you want.
It is subjective. It is hard to see where the market will go to. Days ago, companies actually milled guns to make different models, now its lasering and colour combos.
See above. Stock was trial and effort and the people putting them together nor made them, were engineers. They were people who made things in their garages. We are spoiled using the children of Tom Kaye. The design doesn't need to be changed cause it was a homerun from the onset, then improved on, in house with the L10 & then the ReTro/Emag/Xvalve. The cocmer had every bit of it changed and improved upon, with better rams: valves, pneumatics, bolts, frames(the 45 mainly), hammers. You can build a totally aftermarket cocker, including the body. That goes to say something.
Partly true on RoF. Remember, you did have Karnoivres in 2004, but it had to do with the lack of sponsorships and top teams that could show case the guns. It is superby easy to shoot an electro over mechanical gun. Then add in the sponsorship deals for a team that just came from cockers and those teams lost a year with the possibility of further years for guns/sponsorships. When a company that looses its flagship teams, and can no longer be top and it can not gain new people shooting them.
WGP also tried to get into the spyder-clone market. It is harder to expand in a market unless you have a great product. PE did with the GEO, AGD not so much with the Emag or Xmag. Without the flagship team, its hard to sell products to the masses. Add in the new flavor of the month guns and either you can compete or you get out of the way. Which what WGP did when they threw in the towel when they soldout to Kee.
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