Quesitons about tank pressure with your mags, and with your OTHER markers.

[Abubaca]

So from my reading, it seems that some guys are getting good performance around 650 or 750, but the majority seem to be a good bit over 800, on up around 1100. Ballparking here of course. I ask because my Ninja tank is maxed at 850. A new high pressure reg is easy enough, but then what about using that tank with OTHER markers? The few people I've talked to all said other guns should officially have no problem regulating higher tank pressure, but unofficially they probably would NOT use it, if for no other reason than blowing Orings. I'm no expert, just looking for what experience you guys have had. For those of you, probably most, with multiple markers, do you guys run 'em all high? ...do you have multiple tanks?

[blackdeath1k]

I bought a tank for the Geo I just bought. Output is set at 450 on that tank. Official input on that marker is maxed at 800 or so. Might be able to get away with a shp on it. But you would see faulty Orings quicker.

As far as pressures on mags. Once your higher than effective pressure it's just a matter of how much RT effect you want. On a classic mag any higher pressure than fully functional is really a waste. And it gives you shoot down quicker due to hitting your input pressure at a higher point.

Edited to add. 800 and up have always showed to be 100% reliable for all mags I've used since the early 90s. Likewise under 750 has always been a finnicy nono.

[Abubaca]

What would the symptoms be if my 850 psi wasn't enough? I'm new to mags, and I'm learning the ins and outs. Had at least one bad O ring, and I think the reg. seal in the valve is a little old. ...so I'm going through the valve with a new parts kit, but I'm also concerned about tank pressure. LOL, "first world" problems, right!?

[Beemer]

What would the symptoms be if my 850 psi wasn't enough? I'm new to mags,

850 is plenty. I don't run any of my Mags more then that and they work just fine. Recharge speed is what matters.

[Spider-TW]

I have a few tanks at around 650, 800, and 950.

The 800 is an old crossfire, which flows about like a new ninja (the crossfire is just heavier and long). It will support 14 bps. The 650 is good for non-mag-electros, pump-mags and regular single frame classics. The 950 is good for RT/X-valves that either RT a lot or need more pressure for a little RT. The 950 is good for an occasional experiment on an old blowback marker, and so is the 650.

The low pressure electros kind of drove me to the 650, being finicky with an 800. The 650 is a 45/45, so it fits lots of pumps and smaller setups. I have a 17/3k at 650 also, but it is more specific to markers.

As Beemer said, 850 should be plenty for a mag. I met a CP bottle once that was 850 and didn't supply enough air to shoot over 8 bps. I don't know if that was common or not, but it was in that particular bottle on very different markers and ASAs.

I've had a few problems with bottles over the years and it has been nice to have another one handy, even if it did require some change in play style or marker for a day.

[athomas]

Yeah, 850psi is plenty. It is the preferred pressure for most mag setups.

The higher pressures are desired for valve manipulation and operation outside normal ranges. The higher pressures can overcome airline restrictions that may exist. Lower pressures work fine too, but you need to have an airline without any restrictions.

[Abubaca]

Alright guys, once again, THANKS!!!!! ....because you know...I hate to have to buy more toys! ...but seriously, I appreciate the responses. Thank you.

[Cyco-Dude]

800 psi for my classic valves, electros and other mechs. 875+ for my reactive valved automags, generally.

[captian pinky]

I have pretty much given up on low pressure all together. 800+ is where its at. classic valves, rt valve, x valves, pneumags, emags all of them will run just fine.


you can get them( xvalves/ rt valves) to shoot a bit faster with more pressure but at a certain point it starts to become more uncontrollable.

[Laku]

I run my Geo's, sniper and Ego Mag from ~800psi bottle, rest get shp at 950

[Nobody]

Oi vey...

The truth of thd matter is thst 800psi is all you really need. You do not to put anything more into that. If you mod/shorten the on/off pin, you can get easy, reliable RT effect without ever changing the reg to something that you can not use on anything else.

It really boggles my mind on how many people will try to feed a mag these high pressure when you don't need to. 800psi is all you need, whether it is a classic or RT or Xvalve...

[blackdeath1k]

Nobody. There is good and bad with using input pressure or trigger pin length to adjust RT effect. Personally I like my trigger fully controllable but fast. So the 950 is perfect. But if I wanted a split second change I could just put a lower psi tank on it. To do a change with the pin involves dismantling the valve.

[Spider-TW]

Well, Nobody said "all you really need"... Nobody was somebody....anyway,

It is true that strong RT bounce is too much for many games lately. I don't have much need for 950, but there are a few groups of "operators" that show up to the local big games that I'm happy to turn a good RT toward in return fire. No real need, but fun.

Part of the original question being, what else can you do with an HP bottle; it's pretty thin for my stuff. It will work fine on all stock automags, unless you have some old or wimpy macro line (< 1000 psi WP). The RT effect is manageable on a stock on/off. If your on/off pin is shortened, 950 may be too fast/hard to control. Some people will use them on blowbacks, but a 68ci on a blowback doesn't "fit" for me. As far as deviating from 800/850, I find the 650 more useful than the 950, and that's just being soft on the lower set pressure regs.

[Cyco-Dude]

The truth of thd matter is thst 800psi is all you really need. You do not to put anything more into that. If you mod/shorten the on/off pin, you can get easy, reliable RT effect without ever changing the reg to something that you can not use on anything else.

It really boggles my mind on how many people will try to feed a mag these high pressure when you don't need to. 800psi is all you need, whether it is a classic or RT or Xvalve...

it is my understanding that that is not the correct way to go about it...pressure is the right answer. this is why adjustable regs were nice to have.

[Nobody]

it is my understanding that that is not the correct way to go about it...pressure is the right answer. this is why adjustable regs were nice to have.

1) the use of fully adjustable tanks(not the ninja putting in or taking out shims) is well non-existent for the most part. Whether it is because of lack of parts(seals and such) or the simple fact that old adjustable tanks are like 3 x as heavy and big as a preset.

2) how is it not the correct way? That is the easier, cheaper to mod($8 pin vs $40 tank reg). Plus it is the recommended method to give reliable RT effect.

3) you can use a preset 800psi tank on anything, just about. You can only use an 1100psi SHP on just 1 gun. It is far easier and better.

But please tell me why this is wrong.

[Cyco-Dude]

But please tell me why this is wrong.

does it not change the contact point of the sear? the shorter the pin, the less contact the sear edge has with the bolt lip? i presume that would cause increased wear of the bolt and sear (and chipped sears if it's an rt classic sear). also, who says altering the on/off pin is the "recommended method to give reliable rt effect"? i've got plenty of reactive valves with standard .750 pins that has very reliable, controllable rt effect with 875-975 psi.

[Nobody]

does it not change the contact point of the sear? the shorter the pin, the less contact the sear edge has with the bolt lip? i presume that would cause increased wear of the bolt and sear (and chipped sears if it's an rt classic sear). also, who says altering the on/off pin is the "recommended method to give reliable rt effect"? i've got plenty of reactive valves with standard .750 pins that has very reliable, controllable rt effect with 875-975 psi.

Each valve will react differently on RT effect. Some valves will be lower and some valves will be higher.

No, it does not effect any physical portion of the sear to the bolt. You are effecting how fast the on/off pin comes back into contact with the sear. That is what and how BigEvil told me to do.

Chipped sears, i believe is more from wear and use, than anything else. It could also be metal fatigue or age. I don't know. Never seen one nor experienced a chipped sear. But on my mags, i run about a .720 pin and when i sweetspot my triggers, it can sing.

[blackdeath1k]

The classic RT Sears that would chip had a carbide tip on them. In theory they would last longer due to being harder. But in fact they had a tendency to chip due to brittleness.

As far as how to obtain reactiveness. Do what you want. But I've got 3 markers so having 3 tanks is helpful. It's not hurt me having 2 tanks set at 950psi.

[athomas]

The shorter pin does affect how much of the sear comes in contact with the bolt, because the on-off opens and pushes the bolt forward before the sear is fully rotated forward. The bolt only catches on the tip of the sear. That is why it is recommended that you don't go too short. A really short on-off will work, but the amount of sear catching the bolt is so small, that it puts excessive pressure on that small contact area causing accelerated wear.

[Spider-TW]

The shorter pin does affect how much of the sear comes in contact with the bolt, because the on-off opens and pushes the bolt forward before the sear is fully rotated forward. The bolt only catches on the tip of the sear. That is why it is recommended that you don't go too short. A really short on-off will work, but the amount of sear catching the bolt is so small, that it puts excessive pressure on that small contact area causing accelerated wear.

I have seen a level 10 used with an RT pin that was at the length where the tension on the field strip screw decided if it caught the bolt or not. It had a lot of nibble marks around the edge. I also did that on my pneumag when I was chasing recharge on the classic valve with RT on/off. It very quickly started nibble marks, just with the 800 psi crossfire bottle.

[Beemer]

You can mess with the pin ALL you want if you want but ask yourself this. WWTKD [what would .. do]

Take your perfect working classic and put 1000 into it and see how it shoots.

Wait WTF where is TK.

Hey TK should I mess with the pin or just jack the input pressure up?

Note..........He wont answer that for obvious reasons.

There is really no need to modify the pin from OEM if the rest of your set up is right unless you just want to mess with folks.

[Beemer]

So from my reading, it seems that some guys are getting good performance around 650 or 750, but the majority seem to be a good bit over 800, on up around 1100. Ballparking here of course. I ask because my Ninja tank is maxed at 850. A new high pressure reg is easy enough, but then what about using that tank with OTHER markers? The few people I've talked to all said other guns should officially have no problem regulating higher tank pressure, but unofficially they probably would NOT use it, if for no other reason than blowing Orings. I'm no expert, just looking for what experience you guys have had. For those of you, probably most, with multiple markers, do you guys run 'em all high? ...do you have multiple tanks?

ADJUSTABLE REG...................ONE Tank any gun.........Can you say FlatLine or Dynaflow.......NOT screw in ASA. What happened Here???????

[Nobody]

You can mess with the pin ALL you want if you want but ask yourself this. WWTKD [what would .. do]

Take your perfect working classic and put 1000 into it and see how it shoots.

Wait WTF where is TK.

Hey TK should I mess with the pin or just jack the input pressure up?

Note..........He wont answer that for obvious reasons.

There is really no need to modify the pin from OEM if the rest of your set up is right unless you just want to mess with folks.

And what about your non AGD board and programming in one of your Emags? Does TK know you have Jai-ware in your gun?

With all due respect to TK, as he walked away, he left the door open to any and all to continue using AND modifying his products to ways he never imagined. So just because this is not the way that TK would do it, it does not mean it is wrong. When he saw the various PneuMags, EgoMags and every other mag that was presented to him at Tunaball, i did not hear 1 word saying anything bad about them. Nice try Beemer. See you in June. I owe you a drink