Ironball?

[caylegeorge]

I have a recollection of reading an article somewhere years ago about the Ironmen in the late 80's early 90's, where it talked about how they were using a special run of paint from their manufacturers that they deemed "ironball." Apparently it was a larger caliber paint, and measured out at about .70 - logic being a larger/heavier/more force = more range and more breaks on target. Made a lot of sense. Was this real or just a tall tale?

It made me think about the recent trend of shrinking ball size and caliber and raised a question - Why aren't we seeing a brand out their today marketing and pushing a "larger" ball? (or at least a normal "old size" ball)
It seems with all the pseudo science that is often in paintball marketing, there would be actual real reasons why a paint manufacturer would be able to say "bigger=better so buy ours for a premium price".

...I guess i'm just annoyed with shrinking paint

[Nobody]

The size of the ball is an easy answer. Smaller the ball more paint can be made from a single sheet, thus deemed "more cost effective". Also, the smaller the ball, the less potential energy it has, less possible breaks on target, means you shoot more, thus making more money for the paint distributor.

Sometimes its not sfience but financials that cause a global change.

[caylegeorge]

Yes I agree, its obvious how the smaller balls are a cost savings.

But I find it odd we dont see a premium large ball product, as paintballers always seem happy to pay a premium for performance.

[blackdeath1k]

Yes I agree, its obvious how the smaller balls are a cost savings.

But I find it odd we dont see a premium large ball product, as paintballers always seem happy to pay a premium for performance.

True. But what percent of current players even remember the true 68 caliber balls. I'm guessing most only know of the baby balls.

Back when this sport started if I'm not mistaken there were 3 different size balls. 68 being the middle of the road. And ultametly the one that won out for the l long term.

[wetwrks]

Back when this sport started if I'm not mistaken there were 3 different size balls. 68 being the middle of the road. And ultametly the one that won out for the l long term.

Off the top of my head I have messed with .68, .62, .50...of the early sizes.

[vintage]

Nelson still makes small runs of .62 caliber paint.

[uv_halo]

I have a recollection of reading an article somewhere years ago about the Ironmen in the late 80's early 90's, where it talked about how they were using a special run of paint from their manufacturers that they deemed "ironball." Apparently it was a larger caliber paint, and measured out at about .70 - logic being a larger/heavier/more force = more range and more breaks on target. Made a lot of sense. Was this real or just a tall tale?

It made me think about the recent trend of shrinking ball size and caliber and raised a question - Why aren't we seeing a brand out their today marketing and pushing a "larger" ball? (or at least a normal "old size" ball)
It seems with all the pseudo science that is often in paintball marketing, there would be actual real reasons why a paint manufacturer would be able to say "bigger=better so buy ours for a premium price".

...I guess i'm just annoyed with shrinking paint

Back in the early days of paintball (and for some time after) there were a lot of misconceptions about what would make paintballs fly farther or more accurately. While I've never confirmed whether or not .70ish (I heard and crunched numbers about .71) paintballs existed, some time ago, I was able to extrapolate their performance, assuming that they had similar fills, and were similarly smooth. Here is the short form of what I found (assuming muzzle velocity of 300FPS, @ 1kft altitude, 70deg air temp, and avg humidity):

A .683, 3g DXS Silver paintball:

Maximum Range: 94 Yards
Angle for Max Range: 26 Degrees
Terminal Energy: .453FtLb

A theoretical .710, 3.4g paintball:

Maximum range: 96 yards
Angle for Max range: 26 Degrees
Terminal Energy: .526FtLb

The reason why the larger ball doesn't do proportionately better is because while the .71 is bigger, it also has more drag. I don't have the numbers in front of me at the moment but, this also causes the larger projectiles to drift very similarly to the smaller projectiles.

So, this in itself may explain why they didn't persist or expand beyond those alleged uses. A custom run of paint that only brings roughly two yards of range (and the same amount of drift) would probably not meet the best cost/performance point.

If you increased the density however, that's where real gains come in (but, that also will cause harder hits at any distance).

True. But what percent of current players even remember the true 68 caliber balls. I'm guessing most only know of the baby balls.

Back when this sport started if I'm not mistaken there were 3 different size balls. 68 being the middle of the road. And ultametly the one that won out for the l long term.

Nope. Wetworks got it right. In the early days, there were three potential competitors: .50, .62, and .68 (however none of these projectiles were accurate to the thousandths place and they were mostly larger than their advertised size (i.e. .689).

[ghost flanker]

The reason why the larger ball doesn't do proportionately better is because while the .71 is bigger, it also has more drag. I don't have the numbers in front of me at the moment but, this also causes the larger projectiles to drift very similarly to the smaller projectiles.

So, this in itself may explain why they didn't persist or expand beyond those alleged uses. A custom run of paint that only brings roughly two yards of range (and the same amount of drift) would probably not meet the best cost/performance point.

If you increased the density however, that's where real gains come in (but, that also will cause harder hits at any distance).

Thank you for pointing this out. You hit the nail right on the head. A larger ball provides a larger surface area which will manifest as drag, thereby virtually canceling out the advantage of the increased weight. To get a paintball with a better effective range, meaning it maintains more of its velocity as it travels downrange, then we need a heavier/denser paint, not a larger shell.

[blackdeath1k]

Thank you for pointing this out. You hit the nail right on the head. A larger ball provides a larger surface area which will manifest as drag, thereby virtually canceling out the advantage of the increased weight. To get a paintball with a better effective range, meaning it maintains more of its velocity as it travels downrange, then we need a heavier/denser paint, not a larger shell.

Isn't that more of what fsr rounds are for. They found better aeros are needed for distance and accuracy. A joker pistol with a 20 round clip of FSR rounds could be great for scenario players

[JKR]

I recall back in the day, when Marbs were my go to paint, it generally ran about .686 to .688. I do believe we have seen a change in the quality and quantity of paint being used for a run of paintballs. It seems to me that the old paint was a bit more dense and perhaps the widespread change away from PEG fill had something to do with this. Certainly the tiny paint so common today (.680 and below) would translate to a measurable savings given the millions produced.

If a manufacturer could produce a .685 ball at the ASTM max weight of 3.5g that was consistently round and could maintain its shape this through use of the proven corn starch shell material from the RPS Advantage days, I would pay a premium for this paint. The RPS Advantage paint stored extremely well and when this technology was in development for Hydrotec paint, they claimed a shelf life of a year...or maybe two years...can't recall now.

At any rate, with that kind of shelf life given the above specs, I would pay $75 a case, all day long.

[ghost flanker]

Isn't that more of what fsr rounds are for. They found better aeros are needed for distance and accuracy. A joker pistol with a 20 round clip of FSR rounds could be great for scenario players

Yes, but FSRs come with some serious drawbacks that render them impractical for most players. Mags take up a lot of space for what little ammo they hold, loading mags with FSR is tedious, and FSRs and lots of mags ain't exactly cheap. They have their niche, but they are a different animal, altogether. The real trick here is to achieve the best accuracy and effective range possible without sacrificing the inexpensiveness, ease of loading, and high capacity that traditionally-shaped paint offers.