With the NXL starting a mechanical division, can you see AGD making an aluminum, non reactive, classic valve to satisfy their rules?
New Age Mag Man
With the NXL starting a mechanical division, can you see AGD making an aluminum, non reactive, classic valve to satisfy their rules?
Registered User
Nope. But stranger things have happened.
Registered User
it would be nice but I figure Tim will try to lobby them to allow X valves.
Registered User
Can you put a classic on/off inside an x-valve to eliminate reactivity?
New Age Mag Man
I think UWL rules disallows 'Mags as a whole. People seem to believe that will be the template. A non reactive valve seems to be the answer and a lighter one may bring some customers.
Registered User
Define reactivity. A classic valve still uses air to reset the trigger. It's just regulated air, instead of unregulated air like an RT/X-Valve. Changing a classic valve to aluminum wouldn't change this. I would think with lower input pressures and tuning the on/off pin length, on/off o-rings, and trigger rod on an RT/X-Valve setup, all the bounce could be taken out of any of them. I cannot get my mechanical Automag with stock X-Valve to bounce with 800psi input. Change to a quad o-ring and up the input pressure, and that's a different story.
Unfortunately, I think it would be easy for some to skirt the rules (admittedly, I haven't seen the rules) and get an Automag to bounce after it's been checked. I think a traditional mechanical disconnect is required (blowback) or an Autococker or other mechanical pneumatic where the pneumatics simply don't allow the marker to fire without a complete trigger pull and reset (that I'm aware of anyway).
Last of the Salzburg Clan
U R techno-literate!
Sounds like they need a "Blowback Division".
Registered User
With what I think they're trying to accomplish, I still say "gravity hoppers only" is the easiest way to go.
mech warrior
Reactivity is any force that resets the trigger which is greater than the minimum force required to pull said trigger. It shouldn't matter how the trigger is reset. Whether it's done with a spring, with air pressure, or with magic pixies is irrelevant as long as the reset force is less than the minimum force required to fire the gun.Originally Posted by nak81783
Registered User
I'll buy that, but putting an RT/X-valve on/off assembly in a Classic Valve would meet that definition, wouldn't it? Sure, it doesn't provide the reset force of an RT/X-valve, just like I can't bounce my X-valve, but it would still violate the definition. A simple way to skirt the rule for a small performance gain, namely a lighter trigger pull. So where is the line drawn? Letter vs intent.
www.BigEvilOnline.com
Yes, but the trigger pull is really hard. Since you have direct line pressure acting on the pin in an Xvalve, the pull weight is probably 2/3 harder than a classic mag.
Hebrews 13:8
It will probably not be a blip on the radar, the large majority of mech players play woodsball not speedball.
So yeah, no one cares.
Registered User
I still think someone will need to come up with a way to test for trigger pull and return force--that would be the only way to ensure a given marker doesn't violate the RT rules.
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Hebrews 13:8
Rely on 19 year old refs to get it right ?
Not going to happen.
They will either have to allow or ban Automags.
If they ban them it will be all cockers and a few Tippmans.
And will be short lived like the pump games they tried.
Registered User
My .02 (never played in a tournament, but started playing in late 90s)
I believe the Genesis of this rule/school of thought starts back when electros started becoming mainstays in tournaments. ROF caps and the like are obviously able to be regulated. AGD cornered the market on performance (high) mechs that could achieve uncappable ROF. Everyone can remember playing with/against guys who had a cheater or workaround on their marker to achieve a higher rate of fire in those days.
^this speaks to the letter of the law, no matter how misinformed it is and all the talk about force returning the trigger, and one pull one shot, etc
Now to the spirit of the law. I would imagine the rules committee wants non-RT/runaway mechs. This is easily achievable. And should be an easy clarification. Talk about reviving a segment of the market and some old rivalries.
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AGD
It's simple,
I build mags all the time that DO NOT BOUNCE. You can try as hard as you want to short pull, slight pull, tease pull....however you want and the gun will not bounce.
Bounce is created by setting the firing point as close as possible to the ready to fire point. Most guns can be set-up to do it. I can make a cocker bounce fire too. It just doesn't work as well because the gun is not capable of returning to the ready to fire state as fast as a mag.
The bottom line is there is no reason to ban mags other than "they"(those making the rules and running the league) are most likely Cocker fans and don't want to compete against a superior mechanical gun.
I've tried contacting the NXL to discuss this. No one bothers to respond. No ones even contacted AGD at all about the league. The Automag is only the most iconic gun besides the Autococker that started the whole competitive sport side of paintball. And these jokers ban them for no reason at all, other than they have no understanding of the tech and don't want to get beat by them.
I guess we'll have to start a competing league.
AGD is in the house!
Custom gun builds. All the parts. New Website. Factory Service available!
www.airgundesigns.com
Bearded Works
there were many ways they could have set a bps cap and they didnt even bother.
500 balls per player
gravity feed or no force feed hoppers
rting penalties
but instead they chose to cut off a whole chunk of the people that would have/wanted to enter/travel play and give them money.
While i see a big surge in people wanting to shoot mech's again, i wish the industry wasn't so one sided.
Hebrews 13:8
Did they exclude Automags ?
Is it official ?
Registered User
It's almost like the tournament side of the industry blacklisted AGD after the original RT was released and they have never allowed the thought of reconsidering there stance on the subject.
www.BigEvilOnline.com
I will try to see that the fact no one has responded through to the appropriate channels. No promises though... :/
Registered User
Once again, I am not the target audience of tournament paintball, but...
AGD and her allies need to actively lobby the organization to clarify and grant an audience. This could be a huge revival in semi play. I am sure this is being done.
On the flip side, the organization should have reached out to effected parties for standards/rules input. This was an utter fail on their part.
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~pgop1.0
I don't see anything on the Facebook post or on their website about banning Mags. I did see this:
"Series Champs Will Win New Mechanical Markers!"
If AGD wants Mags in the tourney, offering some up as prizes is probably the best way to grease the skids.
Hebrews 13:8
Donating a marker as a prize should help make sure mags are included.
I'm willing to Paypal a little $ to help the cause if Tim wants to go that route.
Anyone else care ?
AGD
Sent out another email to NXL...We'll see if they respond.
I guess I'll address the thread topic.....aluminum automag valves.....We already make one. It's called the X-valve.
Making a classic valve would cost the same to make. A few parts are cheaper, like the reg pin. but for the most part it's the same cost.
If we can't make a classic valve for significantly cheaper, then there really is no point in making it.
Hebrews 13:8
Simon seems to be spearheading this for the NFL.
Maybe talk to him.
I'm sure Scott has his number, call him.
www.BigEvilOnline.com
He needs to talk to Tom Cole. I already asked about it.
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