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Thread: Aluminum Classic Valve

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    It's simple,

    I build mags all the time that DO NOT BOUNCE. You can try as hard as you want to short pull, slight pull, tease pull....however you want and the gun will not bounce.

    Bounce is created by setting the firing point as close as possible to the ready to fire point. Most guns can be set-up to do it. I can make a cocker bounce fire too. It just doesn't work as well because the gun is not capable of returning to the ready to fire state as fast as a mag.

    The bottom line is there is no reason to ban mags other than "they"(those making the rules and running the league) are most likely Cocker fans and don't want to compete against a superior mechanical gun.

    I've tried contacting the NXL to discuss this. No one bothers to respond. No ones even contacted AGD at all about the league. The Automag is only the most iconic gun besides the Autococker that started the whole competitive sport side of paintball. And these jokers ban them for no reason at all, other than they have no understanding of the tech and don't want to get beat by them.

    I guess we'll have to start a competing league.
    I will try to see that the fact no one has responded through to the appropriate channels. No promises though... :/

  2. #62
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    Once again, I am not the target audience of tournament paintball, but...
    AGD and her allies need to actively lobby the organization to clarify and grant an audience. This could be a huge revival in semi play. I am sure this is being done.

    On the flip side, the organization should have reached out to effected parties for standards/rules input. This was an utter fail on their part.

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  3. #63
    I don't see anything on the Facebook post or on their website about banning Mags. I did see this:
    "Series Champs Will Win New Mechanical Markers!"

    If AGD wants Mags in the tourney, offering some up as prizes is probably the best way to grease the skids.

  4. #64
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    Donating a marker as a prize should help make sure mags are included.

    I'm willing to Paypal a little $ to help the cause if Tim wants to go that route.

    Anyone else care ?


    "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." Thomas Jefferson

  5. #65
    Sent out another email to NXL...We'll see if they respond.

    I guess I'll address the thread topic.....aluminum automag valves.....We already make one. It's called the X-valve.
    Making a classic valve would cost the same to make. A few parts are cheaper, like the reg pin. but for the most part it's the same cost.

    If we can't make a classic valve for significantly cheaper, then there really is no point in making it.
    AGD is in the house!
    Custom gun builds. All the parts. New Website. Factory Service available!
    www.airgundesigns.com

  6. #66
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    Simon seems to be spearheading this for the NFL.

    Maybe talk to him.

    I'm sure Scott has his number, call him.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    Simon seems to be spearheading this for the NFL.

    Maybe talk to him.

    I'm sure Scott has his number, call him.
    He needs to talk to Tom Cole. I already asked about it.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    How many mag guys do you know that play in the NXL ?

    Mag guys play woods, not balloons in an open field....
    I think you missed the point of my question... I was asking which audience was discussing this.


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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Glavin View Post
    RT ULE mags with an X-valve, when built to spec and ran at normal pressures do not bounce fire. They fire one shot per pull. They do not "run away".

    I have said this many times before. X-valves set up to do that are "modified valves/guns". It's like turning up the BPS on an electro. Any electro is capable of high rates of fire, but it's on the player to follow the rules and set the gun up with the proper settings. We don't ban the gun because of its capability to shoot faster than the rules allow.

    There is no assist in the pull to an X-valve. None. Zero. There is no force besides your finger that pulls the trigger. The force required to pull the trigger can be changed. This is done with the on/off assembly. The Ultra Light Trigger Kit is an example of that. The stock assembly is replaced with a much thinner pin assembly that requires even less energy to pull. A classic valve can actually be modified the same way. You can use an RT on/off assembly to lessen the trigger pull.

    The X-valve guns modified to run away have activation points set so close, that basically any pressure can activate the trigger, and because the gun can return to the "ready to fire" state very fast is can be made to "bounce" with little effort. This activation point can be adjusted again through the on/off assembly by changing the length of the pin. You can shut the gun completely down by using too long of a pin and likewise you can make the gun go full auto, by using a very short pin or no pin at all.

    Bottom line is, X-valves can be built to be legal for these events. Banning them is just plain ignorant and IMO extremely biased and prejudiced based on the people who are writing the rules. Don't ban the guns, penalize those who break the rules.

    In my 27 year history in the paintball business, this is always typical of paintball events. Privately owned leagues with their own agenda that is not necessarily aligned with what's best for paintball. The is a free country and the NXL is a private company. They can do whatever they choose. I can't even tell who owns the NXL, there is no "Company info" on the site. Their agenda obviously is "Cocker" based and competition interferes with their goals.

    If the NXL won't allow the most iconic mechanical gun in paintball history then we will just look for/start/promote alternative events that do. All the money and players who would have supported their events, will have to go elsewhere.
    From the NXL mech thread on PBN.


  10. #70
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    I agree with almost all of the above. The mag and cocker are the most iconic. Don't think either is more so than the other. Also. My classic rt 100% stock other than Iframe with a normal 800-850psi tank still has bounce due to the 0.744 pin that originated in it. Very controllable and would only fire 10-12 bps at best. But it's still bounce.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    I agree with almost all of the above. The mag and cocker are the most iconic. Don't think either is more so than the other. Also. My classic rt 100% stock other than Iframe with a normal 800-850psi tank still has bounce due to the 0.744 pin that originated in it. Very controllable and would only fire 10-12 bps at best. But it's still bounce.

    A couple of new orings, or possible a .750 pin would probably fix it right up.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post
    A couple of new orings, or possible a .750 pin would probably fix it right up.
    Oh I know there are ways to change it. Longer pin mainly. I was just stating that in original from it has bounce. On the flip side didn't they change the pin length not to long after the RT came out to slow the bounce down?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    Oh I know there are ways to change it. Longer pin mainly. I was just stating that in original from it has bounce. On the flip side didn't they change the pin length not to long after the RT came out to slow the bounce down?
    IM pretty sure that a .744 pin is not a stock size. My new ones NEVER bounced.

    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...tomag-Level-10

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post
    IM pretty sure that a .744 pin is not a stock size. My new ones NEVER bounced.

    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...tomag-Level-10
    This is a classic automagRT that I've had since 97. The pin in it is stock. Why it is .744 I do not know. I was on the understanding that the early automagRTs had a shorter pin in them than the latter ones did.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    Mag guys play woods, not balloons in an open field....
    I know a mag guy who always hated playing in the woods, and always preferred balloons (or whatever) in an open field.

  16. #76
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    Woods, there is too much walking. Give me short and sweet, no branches deflecting my shots.

  17. #77
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    Woods??? Only when forced. Back in the day when airball first started I lived in it. Now a few decades later all I play is scenario. But now I live in the villages or other tight quarter areas with bunkers and minimal sticks and brush. I like the aspect of speedball vs the aspect of sniper. Guess I just get bored way to easy.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Woods, there is too much walking. Give me short and sweet, no branches deflecting my shots.
    You got it, brother!

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath1k View Post
    Woods??? Only when forced. Back in the day when airball first started I lived in it. Now a few decades later all I play is scenario. But now I live in the villages or other tight quarter areas with bunkers and minimal sticks and brush. I like the aspect of speedball vs the aspect of sniper. Guess I just get bored way to easy.
    Scenario isn't my favorite, but I definitely concur that structures and small spaces with minimal shrubberies is the way to go.

    Nothing is worse than having an otherwise clean shot with that one branch vacuuming up all your paint.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menace_AO View Post
    You got it, brother!



    Scenario isn't my favorite, but I definitely concur that structures and small spaces with minimal shrubberies is the way to go.

    Nothing is worse than having an otherwise clean shot with that one branch vacuuming up all your paint.
    That's the only time I'd lay a stream of paint down... beat the branches into submission.


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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    Mag guys play woods, not balloons in an open field....
    I like both.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    How many mag guys do you know that play in the NXL ?

    Mag guys play woods, not balloons in an open field....
    Not the NXL, but I know myself and several other guys that DID play in the CFOA (since Larry Motes was a Mag fan) and WANTED to play in other series with variable results. It never was about desire, it was about what they let you do. Most of the issue that I ran into at that time was actually shooting over the allowed 15BPS.....of course it was an RT with about 1200PSI input pressure....

  22. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Most of that comes from uneducated speculation on how they operate. Its too bad. People often jump to conclusions based on misconceptions, not just in paintball. Any mag can be made to operate without being runaway reactive. Its easily tested. Any mechancial marker can be made to go full auto. That would mean all markers would be banned. Not because they are bad, but because they have the capability to be bad. Rule need to be put in place and any marker that meets those rules should be able to be used.
    Amen Brother!

  23. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post
    IM pretty sure that a .744 pin is not a stock size. My new ones NEVER bounced.

    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...tomag-Level-10
    Classic RT's did come with shorter on/off's .745 or even .740's were used to shorten the activation point. At that time that was cool stuff. .750 are now the stock pin again on RT ULE's.

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    Classic RT's did come with shorter on/off's .745 or even .740's were used to shorten the activation point. At that time that was cool stuff. .750 are now the stock pin again on RT ULE's.
    My original one was .750+. I was very underwhelmed at the performance.

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