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Thread: Sear not fully catching bolt

  1. #1
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    Sear not fully catching bolt

    I'm having an issue where it seems that the sear is not fully catching the bolt. I have to manually push the bolt back about a 1/16" to make the sear catch the bolt and stop leaking air. The sear and bolt are new so I'm not sure what the issue is. Has anyone had this problem? Thanks.

  2. #2
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    level 7 or level 10? new spring? check your sear rod length, there should only be a gap the thickness of a credit card between them when aired up with the safety on.

  3. #3
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    It's a new x Valve w/ lvl 10 and new spring. There is a good gap. I have a carbon fiber frame on a classic rail (I have the new build posted in the armory under "my main mags competition"). I actually notched out part of the frame where the single trigger would contact if the trigger rod was too long. I has plenty of play. I'm thinking maybe the new sear has to come out and the old lvl 7 clunker sear needs to go back in, but I have no idea. I'm using the gold spring currently. I did try the red spring yesterday and it did not solve the problem.

  4. #4
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    I had to polish the inside of my red spring thoroughly to get a proper fit. Fine grit sand paper. I had to remove all of the paint from the inside of the bolt. The friction was causing bolt stick.

    Also, is it a fresh x valve or NOS? It could need new o rings if the they are original to the manufacture date. Mine needed new o rings.
    Last edited by tucson.az.jbreen; 03-05-2017 at 01:23 PM.
    yes, i could have purchased something new for the same money.

  5. #5
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    Post pics of your old and new sears please.
    Last of the Salzburg Clan
    XT00380

  6. #6
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    Before pics, i would gather that your sear rod is being too long and by you modifying the frame to accommodate this, you are changing geometry of the sear catching the bolt. Basically, you messed this up more yourself. Get the length of the rod from the clevis to the tip (where is pivots to the tip that contacts the trigger).

  7. #7
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    Maybe I should have said the gun does fire but sometimes the bolt doesn't go that extra 1/16" that it needs to, to fully click into the sear, that's when it's slightly leaking, it will still fire when trigger is pulled again. The sear is brand new from AGD along with the x valve and ule body. The carbon fiber grip frame is nos. the classic rail is old and maybe has too much play. I notched the frame above the trigger because it's a metal trigger from an old pot metal frame and it needed the room above it. Notching the frame in this way would not change the geometry of the sear. The trigger rod sticks out approx. 1/8" when gassed up just like on my other mag. A functional mag can be fired without a trigger. I think the comment about the spring slowing down the bolt is a good idea, I'll polish inside of the spring a little bit and see if that helps. I might also put a drop of oil where the trigger rod comes out of the frame, I'm thinking it could be getting held up in some way. I might try a new rail bushing as well, maybe the bolt is sitting to far forward. Now that I think of it, when I first got the valve from AGD it did not have a bumper in place and it was shooting perfect. When tuning I noticed this and threw a old clear bumper I had laying around on it. The bumper did stick to the bolt a few times and came off with the bolt when changing carriers. I bet this bumper is messing with the return of the bolt. Thanks for the help so far everyone.

    I will still take the sear out and get pictures and measure the rod lengths I just did not have time today. Do the old classic rails have any problems with the new sears? The old one is more triangular and the new one is more of a "T" shape.

  8. #8
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    Thought it might be worth mentioning that someone else has told me that red springs being too tight is somewhat of a common occurrence.

    I removed a pretty significant amount of material in my opinion, and it works perfectly now (I think.)

    I had purchased an extra spring before I went at it, but I really took it down. So much so that all of the paint is gone from the inside of the spring, and the inside corner of the spring coil is visibly rounded out. Idk if it was necessary, but I got tired of doing small increments and getting no results. I might polish the new spring less, now that I have some point of reference.

    I'll let you know how it goes.

    Jim

  9. #9
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    The springs fit the bolt properly. They will be tight but only at the very front and very back. The front of the bolt sits beyond the spring when the valve is inserted into the body. The back is a non-issue because it doesn't move inside the spring. The spring diameter actually gets larger as the spring compresses so it never tightens on the bolt.

    You need the bumper on the front of the valve. It protects the bolt and valve from damage.

    The trigger rod should be adjusted so that there is a tiny gap between the back of the trigger and the front of the trigger rod when the trigger is held against the safety with the gun aired up and ready to fire.

    If the bolt is resetting enough to open the on-off to charge the front chamber and fire another shot, then the sear is rotating far enough to catch the bolt. If you are experiencing leaks while the bolt is in the reset position, or if the bolt is just barely catching on the sear, then you may need to tune your level 10 just a bit. Make sure you remove all the shims first. They will cause leaking. Use the largest carrier size that does not produce a leak when in the ready position. Always use the same white carrier oring when changing carriers. Its the oring tension you are adjusting.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for all the replies. I am down to thinking the bolt has something going on. I have thrown on a intelliframe, shadow rail with different sear and the same issue persists. I have put a different x valve on the gun and it works. I did notice the bolt is getting little scratches from the sear on the reset (as well as the sear), so that bolt must be a little big or something. I think I'm just gonna keep on breaking it in and maybe the problem will go away.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mbataska View Post
    Thanks for all the replies. I am down to thinking the bolt has something going on. I have thrown on a intelliframe, shadow rail with different sear and the same issue persists. I have put a different x valve on the gun and it works. I did notice the bolt is getting little scratches from the sear on the reset (as well as the sear), so that bolt must be a little big or something. I think I'm just gonna keep on breaking it in and maybe the problem will go away.
    Send it here and I'll fix it if you cant get it going.
    Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. tunaman5@verizon.net
    Tunamart

  12. #12
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    Hey thanks, That's a good idea. I'll shoot you a pm tomorrow

  13. #13
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    I'm seeing this a lot more now with the red spring..

  14. #14
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    The night I had agd videos going on YouTube while playing with Paintball stuff, and Tom said in one of them bolt stick is always the spring, bolt stick is never an o ring. Maybe someone knows which video that was.

  15. #15
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    I'm actually using the gold spring. I only tried the red to see if more force pushing the bolt back could fix the problem by it still happens. The spring moves completely free on the bolt. I'm pretty much done with this thing and am going to send it to tuna when I have the funds.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tucson.az.jbreen View Post
    The night I had agd videos going on YouTube while playing with Paintball stuff, and Tom said in one of them bolt stick is always the spring, bolt stick is never an o ring. Maybe someone knows which video that was.
    that is not always true. improperly tuned level 10 or also ult issues can cause this aswell.

    i recommend checking to make sure the level 10 is tuned properly and using the correct carrier.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tucson.az.jbreen View Post
    Thought it might be worth mentioning that someone else has told me that red springs being too tight is somewhat of a common occurrence.

    I removed a pretty significant amount of material in my opinion, and it works perfectly now (I think.)

    I had purchased an extra spring before I went at it, but I really took it down. So much so that all of the paint is gone from the inside of the spring, and the inside corner of the spring coil is visibly rounded out. Idk if it was necessary, but I got tired of doing small increments and getting no results. I might polish the new spring less, now that I have some point of reference.

    I'll let you know how it goes.

    Jim
    I have never seen a spring that was too tight in 20+ years of fixing mags...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mbataska View Post
    There is a good gap. I actually notched out part of the frame where the single trigger would contact if the trigger rod was too long.
    Too large of a gap is equally as bad as too short, your trigger rod adjustment may still be out of spec.

  19. #19
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    Now that I have the marker working, I'll test it with the unmodified red spring and see if it continues to work.

    Not sure what else I changed.

  20. #20
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    so ya got it shootin/workin , ya just don't know what fixed it ?? aughh been following to see what it was !!

  21. #21
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    I believe the run away rt effect was caused by dried out o rings in the on off.

    The bolt stick went away after I sanded the inside of the spring down.

    Is it possible that leaking on/off o rings would pressurize the chamber too soon affecting the bolts ability to reset?

    That would be my only other guess.

    Big Evil, did you mean that you've been seeing red springs that are too tight? Or did you mean you've seen people incorrectly assuming their springs were too tight.

    There seems to be disagreement as to wether the spring could be causing an issue by being wound too tightly.

    For the record, when I put the red spring on to the bolt, there was a noticable effort required to get the spring pushed onto the base of the bolt. The gold and silver springs slid right on. The red spring I sanded goes on and off with no effort now.

    Also what would a mag typically do if you did face the trigger rod too short? Would there be performance issues? Or mainly increased wear to components?

    And yes maniacmechanic, I got it to shoot two cases of paint flawlessly in one expensive day. :O

    Thanks,
    Jim
    Last edited by tucson.az.jbreen; 03-18-2017 at 11:08 AM.

  22. #22
    OP,

    First of all, I have to second Nobody's note that messing around with the frame is unwise. If you find a need to modify the frame to prevent bad parts interaction, then there is almost certainly something else wrong in the system that has been improperly diagnosed, and improperly fixed, which improper fix may well have introduced a new problem into the works.

    However, the fact that you put in a new valve and it worked fine hints at the possibility of the culprit being the on/off top o-ring.

    It may sound odd or non-intuitive, but try replacing the on/off top o-ring(s), oiling them up good and plenty, and seeing if that sorts it out.

    While you are in there, you might also take a look at the on/off pin top to see if there are any visible scratches in the polished sealing surface. It may sound like an odd thing to look at, but try it just the same.

    I'd be very surprised if your problem has anything to do with the springs.

  23. #23
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    Leaking on-off orings would definitely cause bolt stick and reset issues.

  24. #24
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    Case closed.

  25. #25
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    Sorry I haven't been on in a while but the issue persists and I give up. I'm sending it to tuna tomorrow, we will see what's up when he gets it. I will post all results and anything learned, thank you everyone that tried to help me out.

  26. #26
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    Soooo, did you get a verdict?

  27. #27
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    Verdict in!

    I sent my mag to tuna and he went through it and he found it had a problem in the on/off area. And the bright idea I had for solving my problem with the trigger rod being too long by notching out the grip frame to accommodate, did not work at all. I think someone in this post tried to tell me off the get go, that-that was a bad idea (sorry to you, shouldn't have thought I had it all figured out). I wish I had more technical information to give you guys for future diagnostics but if I knew that I wouldn't have had to send it to Tuna. Maybe he will chime in with details if needed.


    A big thanks goes out Tuna for helping a nobody on here like me. Thanks to Tim of AGD for your amazing customer service, and thanks to everyone that responed to try to help me out, this gun beat me up that's for sure, Thanks a million, I'm stoked. Gonna try to get some people to go out to fox paintball in Newark IL on Saturday and try this baby out. If anyone's in the area and wants to join PM me.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mbataska View Post
    Verdict in!

    I sent my mag to tuna and he went through it and he found it had a problem in the on/off area. And the bright idea I had for solving my problem with the trigger rod being too long by notching out the grip frame to accommodate, did not work at all. I think someone in this post tried to tell me off the get go, that-that was a bad idea (sorry to you, shouldn't have thought I had it all figured out). I wish I had more technical information to give you guys for future diagnostics but if I knew that I wouldn't have had to send it to Tuna. Maybe he will chime in with details if needed.


    A big thanks goes out Tuna for helping a nobody on here like me. Thanks to Tim of AGD for your amazing customer service, and thanks to everyone that responed to try to help me out, this gun beat me up that's for sure, Thanks a million, I'm stoked. Gonna try to get some people to go out to fox paintball in Newark IL on Saturday and try this baby out. If anyone's in the area and wants to join PM me.
    Glad she is all fixed up and running. on/off pin has got me on a few mags in the past.

    Fox? Nice little field. I would have been at there scenario a few weeks ago but they had it on the same day as Sherwood's 26 hour game.

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