Mag noob, what are my choices?

[trbo323]

So I am wrapping up a autococker build and am in need of a new project. I decided the next thing I want to do is put together a mechanical marker and decided to go with a mag. I'm still new to mags and have seen prices all over the board so I figured I should find some info to start so here are my questions

1) I really want to go with a center feed, I've been seeing prices on center feeds are much higher but are there any reasonably priced center feed bodies I should look at?

2) barrel threading, I have seen plenty of mags that are the twist lock barrel but I have one in the shop right now that had a dye ul barrel in cocker thread, is that common on the center feed bodies or no?

3) what the hell is ule? I see it pop up time to time and people say this is compatible with ule our it is not but I have not tracked down what ule actually is.

4) looking for a double trigger, is there anything I need to know about the frames? Are all frames compatible with all bodies?

I'm sure I'll have more. Thanks in advance

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[Gundam V]

1.) As far as I know, the vertical feed bodies AGD offers are on the more affordable side at about $140.
2.) Most of the vertical bodies use cocker threads, only exception that I'm aware of are the stainless body mags those still used twist lock.
3.) ULE is Ultra Light Engineering, basically aluminum parts. ULE was meant to make the mag as light as possible while still being as reliable as possible. Another term you'll run into is ULT, that's Ultra Light Trigger. That's what we call it, its proper name is the ULE Trigger.
4.) Most of the recent double trigger frames are compatible with all rails, however, the exception are the winged trigger frames. Original Z-Grips and Dye trigger frames had wings if I remember correctly, anything made specifically for mags recently should be to spec.

If I missed anything I'm sure someone will fill in the blanks of what I missed or will correct me if I made a mistake.

[Walking Stick]

A standard 'Mag can be found for $100 but CnC Xmags or Tuna-valved Karta Emags can fetch $1200ish. Whatever your budget don't forget to include a super high pressure (SHP) tank reg from Immortal or Ninja.

1.] ULEs are usually around $100, railed TacOnes $125, DW Chords/Kartas/Dallaras $400-600 - and that's just for a used body. A highly desirable aluminum Xvalve with Level 10 anti-chop bolt (best upgrade to any 'Mag ever) generally commands $200 on the used market; functioning stainless steel classic valves with a simple Level 7 bolt are $50.

2.] There are only a few steel centerfeed body styles and those indeed take Twist-Lock barrels as do all steel bodies. Centerfeed Twist-Locks are hard to come by and have larger bores than what's common nowadays. In that situation an aluminum Twist-Lock Freak or a Doc's Autococker thread adapter is your best bet to handle today's smaller.

3.] Ultra Light Engineering - aluminum bodies and X valves, internally milled rails, milled frames. These ULE and most aftermarket bodies (PTP Micromags, Deadlywind, RPG, XMT) are Autococker barrel threaded but Angel feedneck and detent threaded.

4.] Automag, Minimag and some other rails were chamfered/tapered along the bottom sides which accepted winged frames and foregrips. Winged frames (which came from numerous companies) cannot be put on flat bottomed Emag or RT Pro style rails. Wingless frames CAN work on chamfered rails but aesthetically may have a tiny shelf due to the frame mating surface being wider than the rail's flat mating surface. Most 'Mag triggers are interchangeable - notable exceptions being Zgrip and Emag triggers. Several trigger options are currently available from AGD & Luke's Customs.

FYI, classic RTs and Sydarms are not 100% interchangable with the rest of the 'Mag family so be aware of'em. Look in the picture gallery and MOTM winners thread for inspiration. If you see components you really like show us and we can give you an estimate on it's rarity and price.

[Walker]

Mag Noob, huh?

In that case, if you want to start at the beginning, buy a basic Mag for $100, get that working, and go from there. All that is usually needed is a valve rebuild.

From there, you can start building to match your own tastes. Add a aluminum (ULE) body, no problem. Change the grip frame, no problem. Change the valve or bolt, no problem. Add a cocker barrel adapter to a twist lock body, no problem.

Do you begin to see the pattern? There are a lot of customize options, and when done you can find that you have $1500 into the Mag, easily, or just $400....

Body - from $25 to $300
Rail - $20 to $100
Frame - $10 to $400
Valve - $40 to $300
Vertical foregrip - $20 to $100
Hoses/on off/connectors - $10 to $80
Custom Anno - $100 to $400

It can build up...... Welcome to the insanity....


Walker

[trbo323]

Ok thanks for the info so far, so let's put together a moch setup just so I can get an idea of what I need to save to get this project started

Body : center feed autococker threaded and either has or can have a clamping feedneck, not tac one and not steel, after that I'm not picky

Rail??? (I'm a little confused on the rail still) I like mags that have some space between the trigger guard and front group, is there a name for that? Extended rail?

Frame: double trigger, can I convert any double trigger frame to FLT or does it have to be a FLT trigger from the start?

Valve/bolt: I'm planning on starting with just a standard valve AS LONG AS the body/rail/frame can work with a standard valve and a x valve since eventually I expect that will be upgraded

Anything I am forgetting? I can get Anno for cheap, work for a shop and we build Bob long stuff from scratch so we have a place that does all our anno

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[Gundam V]

Extended Rail is one way to call them. Your looking at an rt rail and not a standard mag rail.

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[trbo323]

So what's something like that realistically going to cost me? I'm not looking for the 1 of 10 exotic milling private lable stuff just something that fits all my needs

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[Gundam V]

This is just an educated guess on my part, but taking pricing averages into account and slightly raising spending price I'm guessing about 400, with the particular setup your looking at. Though I dont know how close that guesstimate is.

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[Walking Stick]

- from here on AO or one of the Facebook groups, buy a standard Automag (steel body, powerfeed, stainless valve, boring Automag rail, single-trigger carbon frameþdouble-trigger Intelliframe, foregrip) for <$150
- buy an ULE body from AGD for $135 or find one used
- buy/find a good Cocker barrel with inserts/multiple bores
- find one of them $15 KAPP foregrip extensions
- for about $250 you'll have a nice ULE 'Mag and it's an opportune time to rebuild the valve so you understand its operation and simple maintenance steps
- then at your own pace you can upgrade to your heart's content as you learn and discover all that's out there for 'Mags

[oneinthebox]

As Walker said, probably best to start with a basic Mag and build on it. I have no experience with an extended rails. I have tried several double triggers and found the AGD Intelliframe to work very well. Purchase a parts kit. Power tube and bolt springs replace easily and seals too with a quarter and a pick. Try different barrels. I have 5 Smart Parts Barrels in 3 lengths. Be aware and inspect valves because there were a few different mods made on them from different shops. Smart Parts magic box , valves drilled with multiple ports etc. Many opinions on these mods. As a factory player I had a "Magic Box" which was a hole in the side of the valve with a 1 inch pipe sticking out which was covered by a black metal housing. This mod was supposed to make the air chamber bigger and pressure could be lowered. This also included the multiple port holes drilled into the valve. I honestly did think the gun shot smoother than previously. The Magic box and valve mod some say is an expensive add on that does nothing. I have heard both sides of that. I do know the gun from 1993 still shoots great. I do know that Tom Kay designed a very high quality gun from the start. Quality parts especially complete anodized or splash kits are becoming pricey and harder to get. Smart Parts and Planet Paintball had very nice anodizing. AGD also had colored rails ,power feed caps etc. There is a very nice Eclipse red splash set on Ebay for 175.00 currently. Long barrel,front grip,power feed cap,lower grip bottle dumpy and a sight rail. Whatever you decide to go with good luck and thank you for keeping a great piece of our sports history alive and well.
AND GIVE A COCKER SHOOTER A WHAT FER!!

[bowcycle]

your basic vert-feed, cocker-threaded body is called a ULE body. They come in a number of different colors, but the most common is black. They run around $110-120 right now used and take angel-threaded detents and feednecks. If you're going to ano everything afterward, you may post up that you're looking for a ULE body in rough condition and see if that can save you some money, but the cheapest I've ever bought a ULE body was $80.

On rails, you have tons of custom options, but you specifically don't want AM/MM-length rails or the RT classic rail. Literally everything else will do exactly what you want it to do. At that point, it's just about looks. With all the hardware you need (sear, bushing, etc.), an RT-pro rail (the most basic rail in the length you want) should run about $75.

The most common double-trigger frames for your setup will be the regular intelliframe (make sure the one you buy doesn't have wings), the benchmark double frame (again, make sure no wings), and Luke's mini-vert. There are other options out there (I love the KAM frames), but at that point you are spending quite a bit more money and it's basically for cosmetic differences. Different frames can be fun, but each of these 3 frames hold their value really well, so if you decide to go fancy in the future, you can easily sell the frame you have to buy the frame you want. Any of these 3 frames will probably be in the $75-150 range depending on what shape they're in.

The ULT (not FLT) is an upgrade to the on/off in the valve and has nothing to do with the trigger itself. The trigger on a mag is just a lever that actuates the sear and on/off gas transfer. If having a super-light trigger pull that isn't meant to bounce is really important to you, then that limits the valves you can use to the x-valve and some emag valves and RT-pro valves. But I highly recommend you don't worry about that here at the beginning. My HUGE recommendation is that you get a normal classic valve with an RT on/off and a lvl10 bolt. The RT on/off does not bounce when installed in a classic valve, but makes the trigger pull light and crisp. The lvl10 bolt is an automag's mechanical anti-chop. It should run you no more than $75.

Everything I've recommended holds value well and is 100% interchangeable should you desire to upgrade/make changes down the road.

[trbo323]

Thanks bow that's a lot of good info

One quotation though, what are the "wings" you are talking about on the frames?

I have not heard of this before

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[Gundam V]

The top of the trigger frame of most frames are flat. But a few frames like the z grip had winglike protrusions on the top of the frame. Just do a Google search and you'll see what they look like.

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[trbo323]

A Google search is not as lucrative as I would have thought


Is the top of this frame what you are talking about?

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[Walker]

Just like a Cocker vertical adapter has "wings" to fit the contour of the body and keep it from rotating, the top of an Automag Winged frame is not flat, it is raised along the outer edges to match the angled sides of a stock AM rail.

A flat top frame will fit any of the AGD rails, but a winged frame will only fit a stock AutoMag/MiniMag rail.


Walker

[trbo323]

Just like a Cocker vertical adapter has "wings" to fit the contour of the body and keep it from rotating, the top of an Automag Winged frame is not flat, it is raised along the outer edges to match the angled sides of a stock AM rail.

A flat top frame will fit any of the AGD rails, but a winged frame will only fit a stock AutoMag/MiniMag rail.


Walker

Cool thanks that's what I needed. I'm familiar with the cocker va

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[Walker]

Cool thanks that's what I needed. I'm familiar with the cocker va

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I figured you were......


Walker

[trbo323]

I figured you were......


Walker

Along with removing them in favor of other options...

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[Billz804]

Good God, what is that abomination?!

[trbo323]

Good God, what is that abomination?!

So much fun.





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