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Thread: Hybrid RTP Rails

  1. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    I'll need the length measurements, preferably pulled from center line of the thumb screw and front grip screw holes, forward and back.

    If anyone wants one of these speak up. I'll probably only make these once, they wont be a stock item, and I doubt I'll make extras...

    Attachment 100251

    Attachment 100250

    Attachment 100249
    I'd be in on a Deco rail

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    The party trick of the mag is 2 screws and the gun comes apart. Allowing the user to switch out bodies, rails, frames, foregrips, whatever. It was not a design feature but people have taken that to be able to have 1 gun but a pump rail and/or emag lowers where the parts are swapped out as needed. Small minority, but people will do this.

    Also, by being in spec, that means people can swap parts around as they wish. I am sure that most people will forget to adjust the plunger length, months or years down the line, as well as on the second hand market thus causing problems. Who wants that?
    While I only own 1 mag right now (use to own more than most) I have always appreciated the ability to swap parts from markers to make them meet my needs. Everyone complaining about adjusting the solenoid plunger length should just not purchase a hybrid rail and quit *****ing. I know for me when I swap a valve to an emag I always had to pull out calipers to find the correct on/off pin so it really is not that big of a deal to adjust the solenoid if need be (basically if you own an emag you should own calipers). Luke has always stood behind his products and I cannot recall a single other 3rd party that has produced quality parts continuously for AGD markers. I hope you are still around in 4ish years Luke when my kids are old enough to play. I would love to get back into paintball regularly.

  3. #273
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    Thanks Mann. My current plans will easily take me past the 4 year mark and beyond or at least as long as people are interested in what I'm doing.

  4. #274
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    I know I'm looking forward to whatever other plans you may have in the future.

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  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANN View Post
    While I only own 1 mag right now (use to own more than most) I have always appreciated the ability to swap parts from markers to make them meet my needs. Everyone complaining about adjusting the solenoid plunger length should just not purchase a hybrid rail and quit *****ing. I know for me when I swap a valve to an emag I always had to pull out calipers to find the correct on/off pin so it really is not that big of a deal to adjust the solenoid if need be (basically if you own an emag you should own calipers). Luke has always stood behind his products and I cannot recall a single other 3rd party that has produced quality parts continuously for AGD markers. I hope you are still around in 4ish years Luke when my kids are old enough to play. I would love to get back into paintball regularly.
    Magnus, KAM, Tuna, to name 3

    Its not a question of quality. I never question that. Though i never held a frame, trigger, or foregrip from Luke. I actually want to, just to see.

    To put it mildly, it makes no sense to have everything to spec in an entire line of parts but 1 part. A specification that was provided by the manufacturer (or copied, not getting into semantics here) so that anyone could make something, so that part can work with everything. Yes the RT valve and body are effectively proprietary but notice AGD returned to modularity with the Emag, RT Pro? So, you can part swap from a classic mag, pump mag, minimag, Emag, RT Pro, and all the other body, valve, frame and rail combos, except this. Now i have been meaning to pick up a digital caliper for myself, but haven't gotten a cheap one even. So should everyone have to? You now would have to buy the rail, and a $50 set of calipers? What about 2nd hand buyers. Should they have to remember that this rail, if used upon an Emag, needs to have a digital caliper included with purchase?

    It is far easier to stay in spec and work around that, so everyone can use these rails, many more years down the road, than having to worry about 5thousandths of an inch. I have a feeling that this kind of warranty work will go to the wayside from Luke, nor would i want to not be able to use my Emag for 3 weeks or more as it is shuffled off to Luke, in the mail over 5thousandths of an inch...

  6. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Anyone interested in a Hybrid Slimline rail? I have a customer that just ordered one so if your interested LMK. I'll be making them this week.
    I dont have current plans to stock the Slimline rail.

    Image borrowed from Capt Spank


    Just ordered the 9" one, but I think my pump chord would look better on the smaller 8" rail. Any chance you are going to make one?

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Magnus, KAM, Tuna, to name 3
    Magnus who is a ghost shell that is a "regular" that is not willing to come forward about their identity. That is comforting that he/she is going to be around for awhile. Starting making parts in 2015ish, and is not now.

    KAM makes a couple of frames (I know he made several designs for XMT), but has not really a company that produced much.

    Tuna. while great at fixing mags doesn't really produce parts.

    So again who has lukes reputation of producing quality parts for 10+ years, and continues innovate his products?

    Ciberous (sp)...nope
    Jay (although that might have been ciberous) .... nope
    PTP....nope
    Logic....nope
    GA devil...nope
    VD.....nope
    Rouge...nope (although great products while they lasted)
    DW.....nope
    XMT .... maybe... I know he started out rocky with his first few bodies, but has done well in the past few years. I know he is in the process of moving, but he has not been around nearly as often as luke.

    I am sure there are more. Those are just off the top of my head.

    I would have assumed with an early 2000 join date that you would have been around for long enough to have seen all the other people come and go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Now i have been meaning to pick up a digital caliper for myself, but haven't gotten a cheap one even. So should everyone have to? You now would have to buy the rail, and a $50 set of calipers? What about 2nd hand buyers. Should they have to remember that this rail, if used upon an Emag, needs to have a digital caliper included with purchase?
    you can buy a set for 10.00 off of amazon prime. Not that big of a deal. I figure that if you are owning enough markers/parts to be interchanging parts that you would own a few tools to work on them. I would suggest a decent set of allen wrenches (std), a few small crescent wrenches, and maybe a screwdriver or two. This rail is not for your standard 50.00 marker.

    You are complaining just to complain. Find another forum or facebook to be a keyboard warrior on.

  8. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by MANN View Post
    Magnus who is a ghost shell that is a "regular" that is not willing to come forward about their identity. That is comforting that he/she is going to be around for awhile. Starting making parts in 2015ish, and is not now.

    KAM makes a couple of frames (I know he made several designs for XMT), but has not really a company that produced much.

    Tuna. while great at fixing mags doesn't really produce parts.

    So again who has lukes reputation of producing quality parts for 10+ years, and continues innovate his products?

    Ciberous (sp)...nope
    Jay (although that might have been ciberous) .... nope
    PTP....nope
    Logic....nope
    GA devil...nope
    VD.....nope
    Rouge...nope (although great products while they lasted)
    DW.....nope
    XMT .... maybe... I know he started out rocky with his first few bodies, but has done well in the past few years. I know he is in the process of moving, but he has not been around nearly as often as luke.

    I am sure there are more. Those are just off the top of my head.

    I would have assumed with an early 2000 join date that you would have been around for long enough to have seen all the other people come and go.



    you can buy a set for 10.00 off of amazon prime. Not that big of a deal. I figure that if you are owning enough markers/parts to be interchanging parts that you would own a few tools to work on them. I would suggest a decent set of allen wrenches (std), a few small crescent wrenches, and maybe a screwdriver or two. This rail is not for your standard 50.00 marker.

    You are complaining just to complain. Find another forum or facebook to be a keyboard warrior on.


    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  9. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by MANN View Post
    Magnus who is a ghost shell that is a "regular" that is not willing to come forward about their identity. That is comforting that he/she is going to be around for awhile. Starting making parts in 2015ish, and is not now.

    KAM makes a couple of frames (I know he made several designs for XMT), but has not really a company that produced much.

    Tuna. while great at fixing mags doesn't really produce parts.

    So again who has lukes reputation of producing quality parts for 10+ years, and continues innovate his products?

    Ciberous (sp)...nope
    Jay (although that might have been ciberous) .... nope
    PTP....nope
    Logic....nope
    GA devil...nope
    VD.....nope
    Rouge...nope (although great products while they lasted)
    DW.....nope
    XMT .... maybe... I know he started out rocky with his first few bodies, but has done well in the past few years. I know he is in the process of moving, but he has not been around nearly as often as luke.

    I am sure there are more. Those are just off the top of my head.

    I would have assumed with an early 2000 join date that you would have been around for long enough to have seen all the other people come and go.



    you can buy a set for 10.00 off of amazon prime. Not that big of a deal. I figure that if you are owning enough markers/parts to be interchanging parts that you would own a few tools to work on them. I would suggest a decent set of allen wrenches (std), a few small crescent wrenches, and maybe a screwdriver or two. This rail is not for your standard 50.00 marker.

    You are complaining just to complain. Find another forum or facebook to be a keyboard warrior on.
    why is this rail not for your standard marker?
    seems like it would work. or is there something wrong with it that i cant put it on a standard automag?
    you confused me with that comment. do you know something about this rail that hasnt been already explained?
    just checking not stirring.

    Edit*
    KAM has made more than a couple frames
    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...RKM-3D-Designs"You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes." RU

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    why is this rail not for your standard marker?

    Edit*
    KAM has made more than a couple frames
    I am not saying that this would not work for a standard automag. I am saying that more than likely someone who purchases this part is not upgrading their "knock off spyder clone" they are not upgrading a rental automag. They are more than likely building a custom body/rail/frame marker.

    My bad on KAM. I thought he only designed bodies for XMT and had 2 or 3 frames (I know there were a few versions of each frame with little upgrades/changes).

  11. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by MANN View Post
    I am not saying that this would not work for a standard automag. I am saying that more than likely someone who purchases this part is not upgrading their "knock off spyder clone" they are not upgrading a rental automag. They are more than likely building a custom body/rail/frame marker.

    My bad on KAM. I thought he only designed bodies for XMT and had 2 or 3 frames (I know there were a few versions of each frame with little upgrades/changes).
    ok cool i get where you are coming from now.

  12. #282
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    Still around—not as active—in hybernation. Paintball itself is a ghost of what it once was, sadly. The market is struggling to support itself.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANN View Post
    Magnus who is a ghost shell that is a "regular" that is not willing to come forward about their identity. That is comforting that he/she is going to be around for awhile. Starting making parts in 2015ish, and is not now.

    KAM makes a couple of frames (I know he made several designs for XMT), but has not really a company that produced much.

    Tuna. while great at fixing mags doesn't really produce parts.

    So again who has lukes reputation of producing quality parts for 10+ years, and continues innovate his products?

    Ciberous (sp)...nope
    Jay (although that might have been ciberous) .... nope
    PTP....nope
    Logic....nope
    GA devil...nope
    VD.....nope
    Rouge...nope (although great products while they lasted)
    DW.....nope
    XMT .... maybe... I know he started out rocky with his first few bodies, but has done well in the past few years. I know he is in the process of moving, but he has not been around nearly as often as luke.

    I am sure there are more. Those are just off the top of my head.

    I would have assumed with an early 2000 join date that you would have been around for long enough to have seen all the other people come and go.



    you can buy a set for 10.00 off of amazon prime. Not that big of a deal. I figure that if you are owning enough markers/parts to be interchanging parts that you would own a few tools to work on them. I would suggest a decent set of allen wrenches (std), a few small crescent wrenches, and maybe a screwdriver or two. This rail is not for your standard 50.00 marker.

    You are complaining just to complain. Find another forum or facebook to be a keyboard warrior on.
    Magnus has been absent, but does that mean what was made bad? I look at the market and its not like parts from anyone are flying off the shelf for anyone. The market ebbs and flows, i am waiting for a follow up myself.

    Tuna does make new things, or has things made. You just don't know it. Need a charger cord, a charger block? Those are not from AGD. Also, i equate service work as parts. Getting the things together, fixing the guns with new parts. Also Tunablades have always been a top seller.

    KAM, you realized later on that you were wrong. No problems there.

    DW: specifically, there has never been a problem with the work that was done, just that Colin came in, did the work and got out. I think that as AGS and the mag community had shrunk down that, it made no sense to stay in a place that would become a sinkhole of money, so he stopped.

    The others either burntout, failed to meet demands on products, or all had fiancial failures that caused them to leave.

    Again, never questioned quality, or Luke's commitment, far from it. I question his methods, his mistakes(as i see them) and his lack of making what the market wants versus what he wants to.

    Methods: stay in spec, make something that is good looking, make something that is for all. Hell, i would love to test something of his. As his biggest critic, if i can't say anything bad, then it would be good, right?

    Mistakes: its subjective. I am biased, so is Luke.

    Design: this is one of the biggest things i have a problem with. Not only the flip-flopping of, "I'm a hobbiest", "I'm a manufacturer ", but if you want to improve not only yourself in pushing design, but getting the market to want and to buy your new designs. I judge his designs on what is in paintball in general, and what i personally like. If the entire market is going to say lever lock feednecks, then he puts out a screw lock. I will tell him its stupid to do so. I also have tried in the past to influence designs with what would or cpuld sell. Luke has not taken up with anything i have said. His prerogative, but that doesn't mean i won't stop talking.

    Hmmm, i may have to look at Amazon. Tha ns for the suggestion. I always forget to look through Amazon and Amazon through world domination will have everything. But i have also learned that you can put 1 to 2 pieces of masking tape on the rail and get the 5 to 7 thousandths. Though, staying in spec would elevate this, but it is far easier to do than messing with the plunger.

    Far from a keyboard warrior. I will gladly meet you at the field and settle differences there.

  14. #284
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    Not only the flip-flopping of, "I'm a hobbiest", "I'm a manufacturer "
    I never once said I was a hobbyist, in fact this has never been a hobby, this is how I make my living. But I'm not driven by corporate greed or mind set.

  15. #285
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    and his lack of making what the market wants versus what he wants to.
    That's more than a little presumptuous to say the least, there is no way you would know what my customer base is.

  16. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    To put it mildly, it makes no sense to have everything to spec in an entire line of parts but 1 part. A specification that was provided by the manufacturer (or copied, not getting into semantics here) so that anyone could make something, so that part can work with everything. Yes the RT valve and body are effectively proprietary but notice AGD returned to modularity with the Emag, RT Pro? So, you can part swap from a classic mag, pump mag, minimag, Emag, RT Pro, and all the other body, valve, frame and rail combos, except this. Now i have been meaning to pick up a digital caliper for myself, but haven't gotten a cheap one even. So should everyone have to? You now would have to buy the rail, and a $50 set of calipers? What about 2nd hand buyers. Should they have to remember that this rail, if used upon an Emag, needs to have a digital caliper included with purchase?

    It is far easier to stay in spec and work around that, so everyone can use these rails, many more years down the road, than having to worry about 5thousandths of an inch. I have a feeling that this kind of warranty work will go to the wayside from Luke, nor would i want to not be able to use my Emag for 3 weeks or more as it is shuffled off to Luke, in the mail over 5thousandths of an inch...
    For the record the plunger is shortened by 0.0714"

    The following list is what dictates the operating specifications of an Automag rail. It does NOT matter what the platform is, Automag, RTP or Emag.

    1. Thumb and front grip frame screw, size and spacing.
    2. Valve lock groove, location, width and depth (If the rail has one)
    3. Recess body mount cavity. Location, depth and width.
    4. Twist lock pin, location and size.
    5. Foregrip mount provisions
    6. Rail bushing compatible
    7. Sear pin size and location. Dimensions must be based off the thumb and front screw holes. Height based off the bottom of the body.
    8. Proper size cavity for the body to sit in.

    The Emag solenoid has it own operating spec independent of the rail. Proper spacing between the sear pin and solenoid body is achieved by adjusting the plunger.
    This is the very definition of modular. Adjusting the plunger in no way disqualifies it from that designation.


    I'm still trying to figure out what you're trying to get out of this argument?

  17. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    I never once said I was a hobbyist, in fact this has never been a hobby, this is how I make my living. But I'm not driven by corporate greed or mind set.
    Then it is asinine on making products that you only want to make. You can not truly say where one market will go but you can certainly make intelligent conclusions as to what people want or could want. The more people buy, the more you can live by it. Having a product line that is sustainable then can afford you a basis to which to build off of.

    No one is saying greed, or flooding the market, but come out with something that does not inflate your ego(only making stuff you like) and is a benefit of the community, that we need, like new bodies.

  18. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    That's more than a little presumptuous to say the least, there is no way you would know what my customer base is.
    I am a customer. I am part of your base. This is why we get together as a community on this forum to show, discuss this thing called paintball. It is very simple. Look at what people are building, look at what you can do, put the 2 together and come out with something better than what is out there. Hell, with XMT being shut down, i would be putting out a body, instead of trying to reinvent the rail.

  19. #289
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    You are not a customer, but you do have a knack for reassigning meaning to sentences that you don't have a come back for.

  20. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElGringo View Post
    Just ordered the 9" one, but I think my pump chord would look better on the smaller 8" rail. Any chance you are going to make one?
    I didn't really have plans to do an 8" version but I can. There would be a small one time fee to do the CAD and programing. If I can sell a few up front I can wave the fee completely.
    If anyone wants an 8" Slimline chime in. ElGringo, if you just want to move forward we can discuss pricing in a PM.

  21. #291
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    I'll need the length measurements, preferably pulled from center line of the thumb screw and front grip screw holes, forward and back. Unless its either a standard 8 or 9 inch rail. (I'm definitely not going to do both, there's way too much work in this design)

    If anyone wants one of these speak up. I'll probably only make these once, they wont be a stock item, and I doubt I'll make extras...

    Quote Originally Posted by Apathetic_Chaos View Post
    I'd be in on a Deco rail

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  22. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElGringo View Post
    Just ordered the 9" one, but I think my pump chord would look better on the smaller 8" rail. Any chance you are going to make one?
    Hey ElGringo, I reviewed the CAD and the change really isn't that much work and I dont have a problem adding it to my standard inventory list. So hit me up if you decide you want one.

  23. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    I'll need the length measurements, preferably pulled from center line of the thumb screw and front grip screw holes, forward and back. Unless its either a standard 8 or 9 inch rail. (I'm definitely not going to do both, there's way too much work in this design)

    If anyone wants one of these speak up. I'll probably only make these once, they wont be a stock item, and I doubt I'll make extras...




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    Personally I'd be good with a standard 8" rail, though personally I would love to see the front portion converted into a picatinny style section. But either way I'll be in for one

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  24. #294
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    The over-all design is really up to JBF since its his vision, the only changes I'll make to the final design are little ones that are tooling and machining related. The basic idea is really a little to complicated to offer variations so you guys need to settle on a single design and I'll pick it up from there.

    Side note:
    I'll deal with the design around the sear pin since I have the specs on what is the cleanest way to deal with it.

  25. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    You are not a customer, but you do have a knack for reassigning meaning to sentences that you don't have a come back for.
    I play paintball. I buy stuff, ergo i am a customer. Just because i never bought anything from you, only means that you have never had anything i wanted.

    Here, you want another part you could design? How about a pump kit? Pump rods, mounting blocks, pump handles. All in one kit or by pieces. There is always a call for it, you can even vary the mounting block to include a vert adapter, foregrip or even clean with no attachment. Since you always get calls for pump milling on your rails, why not have an all in one kit? Only makes sense. Love to see your version of that...

  26. #296
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    I'm not interested in making pump kits or parts, but you may eventually see a complete pump marker from me.

  27. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    I'm not interested in making pump kits or parts, but you may eventually see a complete pump marker from me.
    Would this be completely your design including the valve or would it be an automag variant?
    ......You know you want one!!

  28. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loguzzzzzz View Post
    Would this be completely your design including the valve or would it be an automag variant?
    I'm not ready to elaborate any further at this time, it's way to soon.

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