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Thread: On Gun Unireg Question

  1. #1

    On Gun Unireg Question

    Hi guys,

    Back in the day we used to run the classic mag with an on gun Unireg as a front grip, the high pressure air bottle was 3k I believe with a brass thumb turn on/off valve like in the pic:

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    I donít remember there being any burst disks or a fill nipple. So question is how would you get this type of system up and running today? Just swapping the old bottle out for a modern air system would be an issue as itís then triple regulated?

    Thanks in advance.

    Al....

  2. #2
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    With a classic, running a triple reg system will starve the gun. Add in that with a Unireg, more stainless steel does not makenit any lighter(subtraction through addition). I would bypass the unireg/foregrip and run from the tank to the valve.

    To fill it, i think you would run an ASA with a bottomline, so it could depress the pin valve and full it that way. But i am totally unsure. I do not see any advantage of that to today's better HPA options.

    As for the unireg itself, you can simply run the line past it, gut the internals of the unireg so it is inoperable or, open it up(i.e. run the reg totally open at its highest range) and just adjust pressure at the A.I.R. valve like normal. Double regging with co2 is near ideal for consistency, and even practical for HPA, but adding more to it will only have flow problems and that is no good.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    With a classic, running a triple reg system will starve the gun. Add in that with a Unireg, more stainless steel does not makenit any lighter(subtraction through addition). I would bypass the unireg/foregrip and run from the tank to the valve.

    To fill it, i think you would run an ASA with a bottomline, so it could depress the pin valve and full it that way. But i am totally unsure. I do not see any advantage of that to today's better HPA options.

    As for the unireg itself, you can simply run the line past it, gut the internals of the unireg so it is inoperable or, open it up(i.e. run the reg totally open at its highest range) and just adjust pressure at the A.I.R. valve like normal. Double regging with co2 is near ideal for consistency, and even practical for HPA, but adding more to it will only have flow problems and that is no good.
    I Think he's referencing that specific bottle in picture that had no reg on the tank itself and was more of a co2 style output of all 3000 psi.

  4. #4
    Hi,

    Thanks for the replies!

    Yes so I’d be wanting to keep the setup as original as possible, like in the image. My recollection is that this early air system was a 3k bottle with on/off valve (but no reg on the bottle) that was the purpose of the Unireg as front grip, it must have regulated the bottle pressure down to the AIR valve input level.

    Is that right? Did a Unireg take 3k pressure and what was it’s output range? I’m having trouble finding this info online, 450 - 850psi?

    So I have two thoughts here can you give any feedback on whether these options would be considered safe and would actually work:

    1 - new air system preset super high pressure setup with reg on the bottle, would go straight into the back of the gun. Regulating to say 900/1100. Could flow through the unireg front grip either regulating down to the AIR valve input pressure (650) or can the unireg be dialled out so it acts like a gas through front grip and feeds say a ReTro valve? Is there enough difference in the reg pressures for them to function properly?

    2 - Is there a modern on/off thumb turn valve (with no regulator) that can be used on a carbon fibre bottle? There are 3K CO2 valves like this online with burst disks built in, can these be used with 3k HPA? If this was possible/safe 3K would run to the unireg to do it's original job.

    Thanks in advance for any advice/input.


    Al...

  5. #5
    I don't know anything about the uniregs, but to your other questions:
    1 - the input pressure to an automag valve is much higher than 650. Guys regularly run 1000+ psi into them and on the FN303 version of the valve, it has all 3k blasting straight into it. You don't really want anything regging your input pressure below 800.

    2 - if you can find a tank to an FN303, that on/off will do just what you're asking, but that's going to take some doing.

  6. #6
    Sorry just checking: I thought a regular mag AIR valve was 650 input and the RT types 850 plus depending on how reactive a trigger you want?

    Is that not right?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Smith View Post
    Sorry just checking: I thought a regular mag AIR valve was 650 input and the RT types 850 plus depending on how reactive a trigger you want?

    Is that not right?
    I believe those were minimum required pressures if they were listed. Yeah theres a vid somewhere of a guy hooking a RT valve straight up to a SCUBA and RT'ing the hell out of it.

  8. #8
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    The valves "can" handle higher pressures but its not necessarily good. Putting 800psi in a classic valve or 120p+psi into a RT valve is fine, but when you run 2400psi into a valve, bad thing can happen.

  9. #9
    on the classic valves themselves they say "input rating 3000psi"
    I still wouldn't recommend going much higher than 1000, but TK knows his stuff.

  10. #10
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    I am sure that TK when designing the valve, knowing that his full intent was HPA, that if there was ever a reg fail at the tank, that safety concerns dictate that the valve was able to handle that max input and not blowup. So, max input, burst, and operating pressure are 3 different numbers and never the t'wain shall meet.

  11. #11
    Hi guys, thanks for the replies!

    I’ve managed to get a front grip AA Unireg like the picture but haven’t been able to locate a manual online, does anyone have any information on this reg and it’s parts, also any steps to take to test and get one working again? I’ve read that you shouldn’t separate the reg as the reg seat will not be resealable?!

    Any info. appreciated!


    Al..

  12. #12
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    I have it saved on my phone but I don't feel like uploading the inages to Imgur and then posting each link. So here's where I pulled it from MCB (Vigilante or Black Ice should suffice). Key tip, never screw it in too far or you can bend the pin.

    https://mcarterbrown.com/manuals/

    The 4500psi tank regulators are the ones that shouldn't be opened up as it's a crush-seal seat that can only be reused once by flipping it. After that, good luck finding another (I bought up some cheap 4500 Raptors to cannabalize those seats).
    WTBTunaPack/I.T.body/Omega&HeliumRail/Euro-pf MM/rev "X-Valve"...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Smith View Post
    Yes so I’d be wanting to keep the setup as original as possible, like in the image. My recollection is that this early air system was a 3k bottle with on/off valve (but no reg on the bottle) that was the purpose of the Unireg as front grip, it must have regulated the bottle pressure down to the AIR valve input level.

    Is that right? Did a Unireg take 3k pressure and what was it’s output range? I’m having trouble finding this info online, 450 - 850psi?
    The ones on the mags regulated the pressures down to mag levels at about 800psi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Smith View Post
    So I have two thoughts here can you give any feedback on whether these options would be considered safe and would actually work:

    1 - new air system preset super high pressure setup with reg on the bottle, would go straight into the back of the gun. Regulating to say 900/1100. Could flow through the unireg front grip either regulating down to the AIR valve input pressure (650) or can the unireg be dialled out so it acts like a gas through front grip and feeds say a ReTro valve? Is there enough difference in the reg pressures for them to function properly?

    2 - Is there a modern on/off thumb turn valve (with no regulator) that can be used on a carbon fibre bottle? There are 3K CO2 valves like this online with burst disks built in, can these be used with 3k HPA? If this was possible/safe 3K would run to the unireg to do it's original job.

    Thanks in advance for any advice/input.
    Al...
    The unireg can have the guts removed so that it feeds air straight through without any regulation, so it can be used as a gas-through. You will have a minimal amount of restriction in air flow.

    There are on-off valves that can handle the 3k required. They are heavy and bulky, and I don't know where to find them. Be aware that some of those valves were reverse threaded, so not all of them are interchangeable. The 3k CO2 bottles are tested at 3k but are set protected at 1.8k because CO2 goes to gas at about 850psi. 3k Paintball tanks are rated at 3k but are tested to 5k. They are not the same tanks.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  14. #14
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    I have been running a Unireg on my scuba adapter to regulate the pressure to test guns right off the scuba tank. I have it set at 900 for the last 15-20 years or so. Only had to overhaul it one time.
    Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. tunaman5@verizon.net
    Tunamart

  15. #15
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    Saw this last night and was thinking about it...

    So... I started playing in 96... and worked at the local field for 4 years (while in Highschool).

    Back then compressed air was a relatively new thing... but all the systems were filled using a quick disconnect system (like today).

    The one relevant detail here is that I remember some guys with the old max flo (smart parts) setups... and on those you would have (sometimes) an on gun reg... that a fiber wrapped bottle with a pin valve or on/off valve would screw into...

    The on gun reg would have a port for input (with a one way valve and QD nipple)... and an output port for a hose going to the gun...

    Second image here is the one I am talking about:
    http://www.zdspb.com/tech/mguide/regs/comparison.html

    I remember a couple of them would fill their tanks partially with compressed air (by plugging into the input of the on gun reg)... then they would unscrew their tank and put some CO2 in it (which to me was silly)... they would do it to get more shots...

    That is how you could potentially fill a threaded fiber wrapped bottle with a pin valve with compressed air...

    So basically you find one of those old max flos... and then you would have to hook that up to the fill station as an adaptor... so... you screw your tank into the max flo... then plug the fill station into the max flo... and then take your tank off (full)... and screw it into the mag.

    Also a quick note: Why not just run a raptor on gun compressed air system? Those were basically uniregs I recall (at least when I took them apart they looked the same)... Raptor on the bottom line... and then a gas through grip.

    This seems like a lot of work lol.
    Last edited by Mondoatx; 12-24-2018 at 08:59 AM.

  16. #16
    Hi,

    Thanks for the messages! This has moved along as I’ve found an on gun Unireg (pictured). The raptor manual suggested above is a good reference, the main difference between it and the Unireg looks to be the gas distribution body, the reg components look the same (3k version not the Rex) and also look to be the same as the mag AIR valve.

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    Can anyone confirm the mag AIR valve, Unireg and Raptor 3k share springpack, piston, reg seat and reg pin?

    This would also mean the raptor manual quoted output range of 200-1000 psi would apply to each reg?

    The reg distribution body on the "on gun Unireg" has two threaded inputs one from the bottom line asa and the other was used for a fill nipple. So the original setup was an air bottle with brass on/off valve feeding 3k bottle pressure through to the Unireg grip and filling was done from the reg. The one I have pictured came like that and I’ve found a friend has two set up like this with hard lines (3k rated?) running between the reg and bottom line. Any advice on 3K rated hard lines would be appreciated?

    From the feedback above I think it may be possible to source a new brass valve with 5k burst disk suitable to go on a modern 3k hpa bottle. The system wouldn't have a 1.8k burst disk but I was thinking this could be fitted to the vertical asa above the reg?

    Last question the reg pictured has two outside orings on the distribution body, I read this was for a tournament lock cover, does anyone have a picture of one of these?

    Thanks again,


    Al...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondoatx View Post
    I remember a couple of them would fill their tanks partially with compressed air (by plugging into the input of the on gun reg)... then they would unscrew their tank and put some CO2 in it (which to me was silly)... they would do it to get more shots...
    Yeah, the old CO2/HPA cocktail.

    For those that don't know the reason. As long as the compressed air pressure in the tank remained above 850psi due to volume, the CO2 remained in a liquid state and the gun would run on compressed air. As the air pressure fell below the pressure required to keep the CO2 liquid, the CO2 would release to a gas state at about 850psi until the liquid was gone. This allowed the user to essentially utilize the entire volume of compressed air at a pressure of at least 850psi and then the gas would gradually become CO2, instead of losing pressure once 70% of the 3000psi tank was used.

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