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Thread: Baltimore PB Ban

  1. #31
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    Dec 2001
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    New Hampshire
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    I would personally prefer that if anything be done that something simular to what PA has.
    Thanotos

    http://www.factcheck.org

  2. #32
    shartley Guest
    i dont care if they ban paintball everywhere, i will never stop playing. i wont give up my gear, and as long as i can find paint somewhere (dont care if i have to drive to Canada) then im gonna keep goin. useless goverment, its become to big, to cluttered, and to useless for the people....this country needs a good old revolution (hope when it happens i will be younge enough to help storm the white house myself...)
    I wonder if anyone knows how serious this type of statement is......

    I will not even go into what I think about things like that. Most of you who know me, know exactly what I am thinking anyway.

  3. #33
    I know what you mean shartley but I think hardrock has a point. As the saying goes; "A little revolution everynow and then is a good thing."

    Of course I do not mean revolution in the terms of 1770 revolution. As always the Revolutionary war was a last resort by the colonies. They tried at first to peacably (?) talk with the European governments but they would not ahve it and so a need for war arose.

    Enough about the history lesson though. Hardrock has a point. For the most part, the American government system is just a useless huge machine. It rarely accomplishes anything other than good for special interest groups or at elaast those groups with enough money to ensure that their voice is heard.

    However, with that inmind I must say that I do not blame the government for becoming a mindless machine that existsmeremly for its own existence. No, I blame us. That's right. The citizens.

    For every single person on these boards who reads this thread and says "That's awful. Poor Baltimore. Wish there was something I could do but I don't live there so it's not my problem." and they do nothing I will hold those people responsible for this law being passed.

    It's up to us to change the system if we don't like it and that is why, for the first time, I am done saying "Aw, shucks. That's to bad. Wish I could do something." and I'm getting off my keister and doign something. If you do not try to evict change then you lose your right to complain and I enjoy complaining far to much to simply sit by and do nothing.
    Return to the free market. Get rid of all government regulations and let society make it's own decisions. Time and again the relaxing of government regulations has increased profits, innovation and the economy.

  4. #34
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    Well..

    While the councilwoman responsible for this law apparently knows a decent amount about paintball, the law still demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how paintball is played and who plays it.

    As it stands, there's already a college paintball club *IN* Baltimore, at John's Hopkins University. The JHU ROTC program (which also incorporated students from at least 4 other area colleges, including others within the city) also takes their cadets on paintballl outings. These are two respectable groups WITHIN Baltimore who would be turned into criminals by this law.

    Add on top of that anyone making a delivery at Wal-Mart or Dick's Sporting goods who also has paintball equipment for another destination, any postal or carrier company employee handling or transporting packages which contain paintball markers through the city, anyone going through the city to get to the airport to fly to a tournament, etc, etc, an you've impacted thousands of people for... what? What does this law accomplish exactly?

    What we have to do if figure out why these councilmen think banning sporting goods equipment is acceptable, and demonstrate why it isn't. I looked at the Baltimore Sun and found at least two instances of people using baseball bats to murder and vandalise just in the past two weeks of article available. If that's justification for banning sporting goods equipment, baseball bats need to go WAAAAY before paintball markers.

    I think people in the city council are starting to realize the number of people they're impacting here - partly because when I asked for the most recent copies of the bills (there are TWO of them that would ban paintball equipment, 02-0703 and 02-0713) she said "Let me guess, the airgun and paintball gun ones?". It's going to come down to the hearing - we need to put as many bodies of *LOCAL* people in that meeting as possible to let the city council know who they're impacting - and also know that while they won't win any votes with this law, they sure will lose quite a few. That means store owners, field owners, players, RELATIVES of players. If you play in Montana but your mom lives in baltimore, get your mom to that hearing to talk about all the fun her son has playing paintball.

    I'll be getting the college clubs there.

    Also, please keep checking up on www.paintball-players.org. The people talking here need to coordinate with those talking on r.s.p. with those on paintball city with those on pbnation with those on Warpig etc. I'll keep the information there up to date within 24 hours as well.

    I hope to have a script set up by the end of this weekend to allow everyone to sign up with their emails and phone numbers so we can make sure everyone gets there.

    Thanks,
    Chris
    National Collegiate Paintball Association, Inc., President
    www.college-paintball.com - "A Club for Every Campus"
    www.high-school-paintball.com - "We Create Newbies"

    American Paintball Players Association, Director
    www.paintball-players.org

  5. #35
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    Mar 2002
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    Richmond Va
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    As far as the NRA is conserned I think they could and would be a very good supporter of paintball. I personally am a member of the NRA and I know of several other NRA members that play paintball. If the NRA recieved enough letters from members that were concerned about the campaigns against paintball I think they would be very helpful in protecting paintball.

  6. #36
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    Oswego NY
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    in my defense, i am a history major and i do understand what happens in revolutions, espacally ones that would split a nation...ushally lots of violence aginst people who dont deserve it. However i have 2 points

    1. This nation has its damn hands in the affairs of to many other nations, our goverment has to many offices, councals, orginizations, and people in it...all trin to prove they are useful to the machine...so to prove there use they create bills that ban paintball, or ban smoking in public places...America the "land of the free" has more restrictions than afganistan (boy will that cause a flame)

    2. this goverment is afraid to tackle any issues that mean something....national health care is to leftist....doing away with income tax (dose anyone know that is was imposed on the american people as a TEMPOARY measure to raise funds for reconstruction?) is to right; well they would be left or right if the conservitaves and liberals actually belived in change these days...

    i know my spelling blows, im a history major not english so please understand, also i am still learning i dont know everyhing im just young and bitter at a machine that dosnet work for me, my parrents, and probably wont work for my childern...as my family makes the slide from upper middle class to middle and i have a feeling no matter what my income or college edu. my childern will be lower/poor....
    Tom was the last of a now extinct breed, a breed of players who build a community, a breed of owners who gave to the sport never taking more than what they deserved. I hope to see you at the feild again some day....

  7. #37
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    You guys are missing the point....

    For some reason all the NRA members seem to think the NRA is going to somehow step in and miracles are going to happen. Why? What is the NRA going to do?

    If the Baltimore were trying to ban water balloon launchers, would you call the NRA? Of course not. If they were banning lawn darts, would you call the NRA? No. Baseball bats? No. The concerns this legislation is trying (not quite effectively) to adress have NOTHING to do with gun issues.

    While it's great you all believe in the lobbying power of oyur organization, it has nothing to du with the issue at hand.

    It is dangerous to get the NRA involved because the people we are dealing with don't like the NRA to begin with. Even if people were trying to get paintball banned because they pair it with guns, the LAST thing you want to do is bring in the gun lobby! It's also dangerous because you don't want to put yourself in the position where you are reliant on someone else for your welfare because the second your interests arn't their interested you're screwed.

    Paintball needs its own lobbying organization with its own funding and its own goals and representation. Snow mobilers have them, off roaders have them, hunters have them, fishermen have them, pretty much any sport which is heavily impacted by legislation (like all those sports are) have lobbying groups to air their grievances and protect their interests.


    When we went to the hearing in Wisconsin, we had to wait over two hours while they discussed the first issue: How soon a new elk herd would be open for hunting and how many licenses would be issued and who would get them. Small herd, licenses starting out at less than 10. There were HUNTING associations there to make sure that the interests of hunters were preserved. Do you know who was NOT there? The NRA. Why? Because even though these elk were going to be shot with guns, whether or not people got to shoot elk with guns had nothing to do with the NRA, and if the NRA had showed up, the most they would have gotten is a chuckle.

    It's the same here - except there arn't even any guns involved.

    Is the NRA a powerful lobbying organization? Sure. Does this have anything to do with them? No. IF you're going to make that kind of argument, you could make a MUCH stronger argument for getting the ACLU or some other civil liberties group involved - the kind of groups who routinely act in NUMEROUS ways to fight government intrusion on private lives. (not saying we should rely on them either, just saying that paintball isn't any more of an NRA/republican thing than it is an ACLU/democrat thing. It's PAINTBALL.)

    If you want to have an affect on this legislation, you need to be able to demonstrate that the number of people adversely affected by the law and the way they are affected far outweighs any consideration for maybe perhaps preventing illegal activities in the future. (I.e., we need to show that permitting possession of paintball equipment has many more benefits than restricting it. A fairly easy case to make.) "We have the NRA, now surrender!" isn't going to work.

    - Chris

  8. #38
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    Complete text of BOTH proposed Baltimore Bans


  9. #39
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    arcata Cali
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    do we know if its passed yet. this is pissing me off i dont live in baltimore but it still makes me mad becasue they have no resoning to do this
    giblit

    AO member 4 life

  10. #40
    First off giblit, calm down or you'll blow a gasket.

    No, this legislation has not passed. IT was meremly introduced last Monday. It will now be reviewed by the committee assigned to it and they will be holding a public meeting within the next 30 days.

    As for them not having a right to do this they most certainly do have a right to ban these types of items. I think we can all agree where that paintball markers are inno way covered by the Second Ammendment so that is a non issue.

    Secondly, Ms. Horton, one of the originators of the bill proposed this legislation after hearing about several paintball vandalism incidents across the country. While this is a somewhat typical and knee-jerk reaction that we see from most politicians it is understandable.

    Baltimore, or any municipality, can be held to very large, nay gargantuan, civil penalties if one of their citizens, or a visitor to their fine city, should get injured or worse from the negligent use of these paintball markers.

    They are just protecting themselves and they have a right to do so.

    Conversely, we have a right, afforded us by the Constitution, to oppose this legislation in its current language and ensure that while it becomes illegal to use one of these items in any area other than a properly designated paintball area it should not be illegal to own one. Also, we need to make sure that it is not illegal to fire such a device on ones own property because I often use my back yard as a testing area when I have worked on my marker. Howeverm that being said we will also have to work with the governing body to ensure that language is included in the new legislation that allows for a stiff fine and possibly even coniscation of the marker if use in the home setting causes serious and grevious property damage or personal injury of a neighbor.

    We have to be careful with the things we say because we think how we speak. I understand that you are upset. I am too but these people are not acting out of a malicious nature. They are merely trying to protect the citizens that elected them to office. The fact that they may be supoprting the legislation out of ignrance of the facts puts a responsibility upon us to show them the truth and to work to a mutually agreeable decision.

  11. #41
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    Thumbs down

    They should enforce the laws already in place. Banning them is just going too far.

  12. #42
    That's the thing Mango. As of right now there is no real legislation inplace regarding the use and ownership of paintball guns.

    This is just a classic example of someone with out enough information making an uninformed decision. Luckily we live in a place that allows us to poenly (and politely) inform out elected officials as to the true circumstances of the issue.

    I have absoultely no doubt whatsoever that this is not the end of paintball in Baltimore. I firmly believe that when we rationally and maturely show paintball for the team building sport that it is the BCC will enact the proper laws which will ban illegal use of these markers on city property except when in the confines of a properly designated paintball facility.

    Take note everyone. This is the best legal system in the world at work here folks.

  13. #43
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    Apex, North Carolina, USA
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    where is Baltimore?

    and what is the population of it?
    You did it now osama bin laden!! NOW GALLAGHER IS AT WAR

  14. #44
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    Chippewa Falls, WI
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    Well...

    We're not arguing that you should be able to shoot them in the city (at least not outside of a field were one to be created), but that doesn't mean you should get 60 days in jail for owning one - or are you saying no one in Baltimore should be allowed to own their own paintball equipment? That's ridiculous.

    - Chris

  15. #45
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    So you're saying...

    If someone lives in baltimore, but plays at a field near balitmore, they shouldn't be allowed to own a paintball marker? Someone who drives through baltimore to play at a field should be arrested and put in jail for 60 days? That's what this law does.

    - Chris

  16. #46
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    Mar 2002
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    Cincinnati OH
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    This is stupid, you know I can hurt someone a lot more with a baseball bat, wonder if they want to ban that sport too. Well, maybe I'm being a little irrational but come on.

  17. #47
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    THis is the most stupid thing i have ever read,it was probly some moron teenagers trying to imitate a drive-by that pushed this issue over the top.

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  18. #48
    I'm seeing a lot of posts on this and other message boards that baisclly say things like "what's the difference if there is no playing field in the city." "or " So what if they do it there."

    Seeing posts like these reminds me of the words of the German theologian, Martin Niemoller.

    "In Germany, the Nazis came for the Communists, but I wasn't a Communist, so I didn't speak up.
    Then they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew, so I didn't speak up.
    Then they came for the Labor Unionists, but I wasn't a Labor Unionist, so I didn't speak up.
    Then they came for the Catholics, but I was a Protestant, so I didn't speak up.
    Then they came for me...By that time there was no one to speak up for me."

    If we allow a total ban of ownership in one city then it is quite logical to assume, without slipping to far into MacArthurism, that it may happen else where until we are not able to own or play.

    We must understand that a city or a state or a federal government has the right and the duty to protect it's citizens but this must be done responsibly.

  19. #49
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    GO REPUBLICANS

    Involving the NRA will not help paintball. First of all, the last thing a paintball player wants to do is to put paintball (a sport) into the category of guns. We're not fooling anybody by calling them markers, but if the NRA supports paintball, Democrats (some hating the NRA anyway) will throw out an "I told you so" to the American public about paintball markers being guns. Second, the NRA is supporting an idea that was established years ago. The NRA is trying to defend our constitutional right and safety. They have enough time on their hands, and I would much rather keep my second amendment to protect myself than play paintball.

    What we need is a new organization. Something designed specifically for the defense of paintball. I know many people have the power to do so, so lets jump on it!

    I doubt this bill will pass even in Maryland anyway, but lets stay on our guard?
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  20. #50
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    correction

    *** They don't have enough time on their hands. Sorry ***

  21. #51
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    That new organization you were referring to....

    American Paintball Players Association
    www.paintball-players.org

    We'll have petitions in paintball-related locations in and around Baltimore in a couple days.

    Also, there's the Paintball Products Manufacturers Association, similar thing only for paintball companies instead of players. They're at www.paintballassociation.org.

    - Chris

  22. #52
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    We must speak up about this issue!!! I agree with Hasty 100%, If this one passes, they will cram down the rest of our throats, no matter what state we live in!!! It is something paintball indutry as a whole, the players, manufacturers, field owners, etc.. must fight tooth and nail!!! This is where we must make ourselves heard!!! Everyone needs to call or write the legislators now, remember, the more professional you make your letters, the more likely it will be read!!!
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