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Thread: Classic Valve Leaking Hard out the Reg back

  1. #1
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    Question Classic Valve Leaking Hard out the Reg back

    I just purchased a classic valve and I've oiled everything well but Gas continually leaks out the back of the marker through the valve velocity adjust. If I turn it down enough that it stops leaking it doesn't fire period. It also will not fire when it's leaking and the velocity is turned up. Anyone know what I should do?

    btw, it has the standard lvl 7 bolt installed.

    Reg spring is in the right way. If I turn it up all the way it seems to be releasing full input pressure 850 out the back.

    I already tried adding shims to the regulator piston I put 3 in and it showed no improvement. I'm really stuck on this one.
    Last edited by CatoRockwell; 01-09-2010 at 04:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatoRockwell
    I just purchased a classic valve and I've oiled everything well but Gas continually leaks out the back of the marker through the valve velocity adjust. If I turn it down enough that it stops leaking it doesn't fire period. It also will not fire when it's leaking and the velocity is turned up. Anyone know what I should do?

    btw, it has the standard lvl 7 bolt installed.

    Reg spring is in the right way. If I turn it up all the way it seems to be releasing full input pressure 850 out the back.

    I already tried adding shims to the regulator piston I put 3 in and it showed no improvement. I'm really stuck on this one.
    the reply in post 2 really worked well for me.

    http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246743

    If post 2 doesn't work post 3 might be your only option.

    Ando posted pictures of the disassembly somewhere but i can't find the thread now

  3. #3
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    Ck the BE forums. Just posted on the thread you opened over there.

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    I can't tell ya what the fix is, but I can tell you to let me know if it don't work out... I'll get the fix figured out...

    Aight??

    I'll also look around and see what I can find about fixing it... as far as I know the o ring that's on the reg piston is the only thing back there to change out... I'll see if I can find the answer as well...

    DM

  5. #5
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    Yeah, like DM said, check that the regulator piston O-ring is in good shape. It sounds like it might not be there at all.

  6. #6
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    What I posted on BE.
    I'm making a vid tonight at work on how to disassemble it. I'll have it uploaded tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ando View Post
    If your strap for cash you can fix it. Get a allen key (7/32) and open up the brass piston. First thing that will come out is a spring, a metal plate and a rubber seal. That seal is your problem. If you look closely you'll see circular groves in the center of it (can also feel it). Just turn that seal around so the groves are against the metal plate and not against the front of the piston then reassemble. Install the allen set screw all the way down tight and reassemble the marker. You should be rocking.


    That's a temp fix till you get a new one. Get with Tuna and buy one cause once it starts leaking again. That piston is Tango Uniform. I wouldn't replace it with the new one till that one starts leaking again. How long will it last is UNK

    EDIT: Found a pic. This piston is from a RT valve but the internals are the same for both. The rubber seal is sec to last on the right.

    Last edited by Ando; 01-09-2010 at 11:52 AM.

  7. #7
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    So I did take the piston apart and did just that, now it is leaking out the front have of the valve hard and is no longer leaking out the back of the reg. What do I do now?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatoRockwell
    So I did take the piston apart and did just that, now it is leaking out the front have of the valve hard and is no longer leaking out the back of the reg. What do I do now?
    Do you mean it's leaking down the barrel? You can check this by pulling and holding the trigger. If the leak stops then it's probably something in your power tube, most likely the power tube o-ring.

    Here's the link to part 1 of 10 of Tom Kaye's videos on the mag. I think it's around part 6 or 7 that he gets into troubleshooting and teching the gun.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vehPc7vuK20

  9. #9
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    Using a level 7 bolt with a red spring will result in a higher operating pressure in the chamber. A higher pressure will probably exceed the pressure release of the regulator piston assembly so the pressure will never get high enough to push the bolt.

    I see you have the problem fixed by altering the reg piston assembly. If the problem persists, try the valve with a standard level 7 bolt spring.

    As for the leak out the front, you may need to replace the powertube oring and/or use a shorter spacer. This is of course, if the problem is in the powertube and will stop when you hold the trigger in? If the leak doesn't stop when you hold the trigger, then the problem is in the on-off area.
    Last edited by athomas; 01-10-2010 at 08:29 AM.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  10. #10
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    The problem does not go away when I pull the trigger

  11. #11
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    Cato, did you put an oring in the powertube???

    DM



    The O ring shown here, between the BLUE BUMPER and the L7 SPACER is what that valve needed.

    Did you pop one in there???

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    The video unfortunately won't be uploaded till tomorrow but I'm happy you were able to get it open.

    Everyone covered the basics for fixing the other leak so good luck bro.

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    yes there is an oring in the power tube

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    Is everything on the valve stock? If not make it so and start adding what ever aftermarket parts you had on it till it starts venting. Then try fixing that part.

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    Ando, when I had it, I took it apart and the best I could tell/saw/know it was all stock. I only knew that it was missing the powertube o ring. I know I took the on/off out as well and cleaned everything. I know there has been no oil in it since I cleaned it, so I know it could use some though, I'm not sure that it'd fix the leak.

    Cato, pull it apart and check it against that pic I posted, and see if all of the parts are there and are in the right places. I can't imagine that I would have missed something major, but I very well could have. I had no air to check anything with.

    Let me know what pans out man... I feel bad that you got that from me and it's giving you fits...

    DM

    Only other thing is I'm thinking that one has the .235 spacer in it. Try a different bolt if you have one handy, or swap out the spacer to a smaller one, as that's the top of the size range for those I think.

    I also often had one of the small teflon/white washers that I put in the powertube under the o-ring...

  16. #16
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    I think BE said you can use lvl 10 shims. Slap some in there and see if it goes away if you don't have a larger carrier. You'll want to put them between the power tube cap and spacer.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatoRockwell
    The problem does not go away when I pull the trigger
    The problem going away relates to holding the trigger, not just pulling the trigger and releasing it. Were you holding the trigger? If so, then your leak out the front problem is not powertube related. The only way there can be a leak out the front, is if the air is getting by the on-off top orings and into the front chamber. There are two orings that seal here and they lie on the top of the on-off top. In a classic valve, they are a smaller white teflon oring inside a yellowish white urethane oring.

  18. #18
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    It's still looking bad, it leaks hard out the back it also leaks out the front I have a question for the piston pictured above: is that the order the parts should go in? because the rubber seal thing is actually in after the metal disc. When i swapped it around so that the rubber seal was in first and the disc in after and then the spring, the leaking out the back continued but was reduced drastically, but the leaking out the on/off and the bolt was slightly increased.

    All parts as far as I can tell I've well lubed and put in the right order. Do I just need to replace the piston? maybe the input pressure from the 850 output crossfire tank is high. Even so, why is it leaking out everywhere?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatoRockwell
    It's still looking bad, it leaks hard out the back it also leaks out the front I have a question for the piston pictured above: is that the order the parts should go in?
    Yes that's the order it's suppose to be in. All your doing is flipping the rubber seal around so that circular grove on the rubber seal is facing the metal plate. The smooth side of the rubber seal should be lying against the front of the piston.

    The order of instalation should be the rubber seal, metal plate, spring and set screw.

    Quote Originally Posted by CatoRockwell
    because the rubber seal thing is actually in after the metal disc. When i swapped it around so that the rubber seal was in first and the disc in after and then the spring, the leaking out the back continued but was reduced drastically, but the leaking out the on/off and the bolt was slightly increased.
    Didn't you post that the leak out the back was fixed How high do you have your velocity at? If it's set too high, the valve it's designed to vent out the back.

    Quote Originally Posted by CatoRockwell
    All parts as far as I can tell I've well lubed and put in the right order. Do I just need to replace the piston? maybe the input pressure from the 850 output crossfire tank is high. Even so, why is it leaking out everywhere?
    The piston needs to be replaced. It's a temp fix but will keep you in the game till your new parts arrive. How long the fix will last is unknown. The few that i fixed are still working but I have spares in case they do decide to give up the ghost again. The 850 output pressure isn't a problem. The valve can take 3k.
    Last edited by Ando; 01-11-2010 at 05:48 AM.

  20. #20
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    Well the input is fixed at 850. So I have absolutely no idea what is going on. I thought the leaking out the back was fixed, but that's simply because the leaking out the front end increased so drastically that I didn't hear it coming out the back still. but when I went back out there to check on it, it indeed still was leaking.

  21. #21
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    ok so I got it fixed so that it isn't leaking out the back. Oddly enough, it is now leaking where the two reg halves come together. I'm guessing that replacing that oring will fix that, but it is also leaking hard down the barrel. What do I do about that? It slows down to a trickle if I hold down the trigger, but it still leaks slightly even when the trigger is held down.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatoRockwell
    ok so I got it fixed so that it isn't leaking out the back. Oddly enough, it is now leaking where the two reg halves come together. I'm guessing that replacing that oring will fix that, but it is also leaking hard down the barrel. What do I do about that? It slows down to a trickle if I hold down the trigger, but it still leaks slightly even when the trigger is held down.
    Leaking between the reg halves can be fixed with a new oring there. Perhaps the oring got pinched or a piece of dirt got lodged in it.

    Your leak down the powertube while holding down the trigger is a result of a bad oring combination on your on-off top. Again, either you have a bad oring or a piece of dirt is lodged in there.

    Your leak down the powertube while the trigger is released is usually a bad powertube oring or a spacer that is too long. The spacer being too long can be a result of a slightly worn sear. It can be cured by using a shorter powertube spacer.

  23. #23
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    Mook, If you don't have access to your AGD rebuild stuff you can have him send the valve to me, I'll fix it, then send it back. LMK......

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    I have the 235 spacer in. Is that the largest one? because it comes out pretty easy it's not snug like my carrier for my xvalve lvl10

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    Thanks ando, thats what I did and it fixed the leaking out the back problem. Just need to fix the other issues.

    Another question for the group my on/off top part does not look like your standard on/off top the groovs are along the top of the piece rather than having holes down the center. Could this be a problem?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatoRockwell
    Thanks ando, thats what I did and it fixed the leaking out the back problem. Just need to fix the other issues.

    Another question for the group my on/off top part does not look like your standard on/off top the groovs are along the top of the piece rather than having holes down the center. Could this be a problem?
    It looks like a castle turret correct??? Flip it over and see if that helps. I honestly can't remember which way I put it in there man... grrrr... I'm so sorry... I don't have any air here or anything to check that stuff with... damnit...

    I've got some pics in my photobucket of various types of on/off tops. There have been sooooo many different ones made that I don't know if any are any better or worse than the original.

    Let us know if that changes anything. The flat side should be at the top against the orings I'm pretty certain.

    Does it look like the one shown here that is in the middle on the bottom row ~>

    As you can see there are quite a few variations, and this is just the set of pics I've taken when I had 6 valves handy... who knows how many other variations are out there.

    DM
    Last edited by DevilMan; 01-11-2010 at 01:33 PM.

  28. #28
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    Yes, the flat part of the top faces the two orings. That top will work well. The newer top that AGD sells with all the newer classic valves is universal in that there is no way to put it in backwards.

  29. #29
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    well I just ordered a full oring kit to rebuild everything, a new reg piston, and a powertube spacer kit. If that doesn't fix everything then I'm just screwed.

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    Its a mag. Of course it will work.

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