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Thread: ******** First LVL 10 Video!! **************

  1. #121
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    *BOTTOM JAW ON FLOOR* GULP... did I see what I think I saw? I Actually did this when I first got my mag to see how forceful it was.. and it bent the rolled dollar exactly where the bolt went. I see this.. and I'm like WOW! This would be great if only I chopped paint. I don't have problems so it will be likely to wait. Nice work though

  2. #122
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    aright..... sorry to burst your bubbles but IMO this isnt a big deal? maybe in a mag it is? my friend owns a black magic and we set the front reg to where it would normally be and we folded a dolar bill JUST LIKE the video and put it in the feed tube and shot more then just 2 times. NOTHING HAPPENED TO THE BILL! then i got home and went to my freeflow, set the pressure. then put the dolar bill in and folded it the vertical way so it only overlapped once and we shot it multiple times and nothing happpened. we also then tried the vertical fold way on the black magic and it was fine. this really isnt a big deal if it doesnt tear apart a dollar bill. but eh, thats just me. and once i get my camera on my compouter working and my cable goes back up. ill post a video if you would like.
    -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-




    I'm sexxy and so is my gun

  3. #123
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    Please do, i would like to see a video of your cockers bolt bouncing off the dollar bill roll without denting it.

    PS- The point wasnt that it didnt tear the bill up, it was the the mere resistance of the roll being there made the bolt bounce back and barely moved the bill at all. A freeflow cocker at 35psi ram pressure would still displace a rolled up dollar bill.
    Last edited by Kaiser Bob; 06-14-2002 at 05:09 PM.

  4. #124
    YOU SIR are completely out of control and are about to get a ban on you! Thak kind of language is not tolerated here. ONE AND ONLY WARNING TO YOU. cphilip
    Last edited by cphilip; 06-14-2002 at 08:04 PM.

  5. #125
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    It would appear that while Rob was moving the MPEG to his webspace it was corrupted.

    The Divx Version should work fine, I just tested it.

    If you need the MPEG version and cannot wait for it to be repaired, send me a PM with your email address and I'll email it to you.

  6. #126
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    *blink blink blink*

    Holy.....

    And here I was considering getting a cocker.....

    I see the light!! I know know the truth. I'll promise, I shall never sway from AGD ever again!!!

    Me definately getting Mag ASAP!
    ~The Wanderer~

  7. #127

    ??

    ok i have been confused with the entire lvl __? with any kind of mag (lol i prolly sound like a newb) but anyway would that lvl 10 upgrade be available for my minimag? and can someone help me out with the whole lvl thing? and o yeah that video is freakin sick! gj tom! u rule!
    Last edited by canibus; 06-14-2002 at 05:43 PM.
    Chromed Y-Mag

  8. #128
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    Maghappy: I admit other markers could probably do this(ive never seen it before) but the point is that its an easy on paint mag that doesnt chop and can still shoot 20bps+. I know no other marker(especially a cocker with the reg pressure that low) that can hold any rate of fire like that with the same non chop benefits.
    -Minimag Body HR
    -Retro Valve
    -Z grip with extender
    -12V X-Boarded Revvy
    -6 barrels including:10 Inch DYE SS, 8 inch Steel Wind, 8 inch stock minimag barrel, 12 inch BOA barrel, 12 inch Lapco Autospirit, 16 inch SPAA
    -68/3000 Flatline

  9. #129
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    got it to work... im sold and so are two other people who live near me who have mags

    To leave feedback: Click seller/buyers name, Click feedback score, Click leave feedback

  10. #130
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    Okay everyone.. sorry, but I never even saw Shartley's posts (which you all are responding to) at all, and really, reading everyones responses to his posts gives me only clues and half-truths in terms of what the hell he said.

    So yeah, could you repost what he said or just drop the subject?
    Cuz it's really cluttering up this topic
    ***************************************
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  11. #131
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    basicly he said he didnt understand why tom would post a video demonstration of a paintball gun mod that wont even shoot paintball.

  12. #132
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    guys.... lets get something crystal clear.

    The automag in that video, can not shoot a paintball at that bolt setting.

    I doubt those cockers that cant squish a rolled dollar bill can't shoot a paintball either.
    [img][/img]
    Honda NSX 2.0 - No Rival Exists

  13. #133
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    lets see a cocker do that i can't wait for lvl 10 to go into production
    We are all like raindrops falling from the sky, eventually landing on this sandy star and drying up from the heat of the sun. Even if protected by a huge umbrella, we never know what tomorrow may bring. Someday we will be blown by the wind and absorbed into the sandy earth. -Trigun

  14. #134
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    Actually it will shoot a ball just fine, it just wont push it past the ball detent

    Remove the detent and it works just fine. That video is to show what is possiable with the differnt settings that you can use.

    Quit trying to think around Tom's design. People piss and moan about everything before they even know what the hell is going on.

    Shartly jumped on something trying to show that someone is trying to "fool" people about what the product will do. I would really like to know why the hell people seem to think that Tom or AGD is trying to "trick" people. He has to be one of the most open people in the indrustry when it comes to what he is working on, what he thinks of the faults of his products are and what he plans to do about it. For christ sake get the hell off his back.

    -Robert
    Serving AGD customers since 93, wishing I could beat some common since into some of them about 5 hrs later.


  15. #135
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    Best possible answer to everyone's fears: wait.

    If level 10 sucks you lose nothing by waiting. Like many people have brought up, not everyone is chopping every other ball. An extra month without lvl10 isn't going to determine the rest of your paintball life.

  16. #136
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    LOL

    If I was in the paintball business(and I am not) I would hate Tom. You know why? cuz he always comes up with stuff that threatens to put other paintball gun companies out of business.

    Good stuff Tom. I bought a mag and never doubted that it was money well spent.
    Red Chord V2 RT Pro

  17. #137
    ****ing great work Tom and AGD !
    I am pretty impressed, can´t wait to put that stuff into my AutoMag !
    *squirt squirt*

  18. #138
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    i think this was already mentioned, its like a compound bow. the power tube must be tapered some how so that the further the bolt advances the higher the pressure gets.

  19. #139
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    I bet the valve stem will have two diameters, a smaller
    diameter that seals against the o-ring and acts as the
    low pressure piston, and then the old original diameter
    that acts as the high speed piston.
    the low speed length would be just long enough to bring the
    bolt in contact with the (pinched) ball, but be short enough to vent
    the air charge if a ball is pinched. this is probably the
    reason for the shims and the "tuning".

    Should I tell you about what I think the Stainless superbolt is going to look like, I did once,
    Butter might remember.

  20. #140
    Originally posted by steveg
    Should I tell you about what I think the Stainless superbolt is going to look like, I did once,
    Butter might remember.
    ... I can remember too I´m really looking forward ...
    Greets Manuel
    .:| levelx retro z-minimag |:..:| spearhead #192 |:.
    .:| ---> looking for Flatline 4.5K or AA Apokalypse 2K <--- |:.

  21. #141
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    i cant see the video in the 1 mpeg video...
    Someone took away my cool sig. *cough*mod*cough*

  22. #142
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    Shartly jumped on something trying to show that someone is trying to "fool" people about what the product will do. I would really like to know why the hell people seem to think that Tom or AGD is trying to "trick" people. He has to be one of the most open people in the indrustry when it comes to what he is working on, what he thinks of the faults of his products are and what he plans to do about it. For christ sake get the hell off his back.
    I would appreciate it if people would give an accurate indication of what I was trying to express. THIS is not. What I DID state was the following:

    1) Tom Posted a Video and Text to go with it.

    2) The Text in itself does not state what others keep posting ( i.e. Tom stated in PAST posts, that he will be posting “extremes” in development), or that the marker is not set up for actual field use. The text clearly leaves that information out.

    3) If you take the post and video as it is posted, MANY people (to include some who NOW state they did not) thought the marker was a fully functioning marker (i.e. shoots a paintball as it was DESIGNED to do, detent and all).

    4) Tom ran to the Chat Room after making this thread, and boldly stated “Of course noone would want to set up their marker like that. Does anyone know why?” and then he stated because it would not push the ball past the detent. To all of us who KNOW that AGD Markers use a ball detent, it means the marker will NOT fire as designed. So now saying you can remove the detent and it will fire is silly. I asked Tom if he sells ANY Markers without detents or if removing them was part of the Level 10 Upgrade… he would not answer me.

    5) He stated in the Chat room that this was only the first of a series of videos, and that he just wanted to stir the pot. Well, he IS doing that. He posted one thing, went in the Chat Room and made Disclaimers, but then did not come back to the Forums to Post those SAME disclaimers. Now pointing them out and saying this would indicate some sort of deception on Tom’s part is a bad thing? What rational reason could ANYONE have for not posting ALL the facts so that people would not get the wrong impression…. Unless you WANT them to get the wrong impression? And THAT is called being misleading, or “fooling” someone.
    actual post quote from Tom
    Ladies and Gentelmen of AO,

    As all of you know we embarked on one of our famous research projects more than 6 months ago. The goal was simple, to find out why paint chopped and broke down the barrel more in our marker than others. The journey took a new direction when we discovered that it was not the air blast that was hard on the paint but the bolt speed itself.

    Slow speed bolts are friendly on paint, this is the new fact we had to work with. Slow bolts have another problem though, they slow down your rate of fire. The genius of the Level 10 configuration is it’s ability to combine the best of both worlds. The bolt moves slowly where it needs to be gentile on paint but changes gears once it’s in the clear. This “shifting gears” approach is a new and innovative idea in the world of paintball. We predict that you will see this approach spread across marker designs in their attempt to catch up with our technology. More details on this with the next video.

    At no time did AGD ever try to deny that we had a problem. We went out and methodically researched to provide a new product that had real benefits. What we are trying to say is that the title of this video represents how we feel about our work. For you viewing enjoyment, we present, “The Buck Stops Here”

    From all of us at,

    AGD
    I would like someone to point out in all that, ANY indication that what you are about to see is not (as Tom stated openly in the Chat Room to a LIMITED amount of people) how anyone would want their Marker actually set up because it will not even move the ball past the detent. Yes, it says more details will be show on the next video, but I am pretty sure most people who saw this post and video were under the IMPTESSION that what they were seeing was indeed a marker that was in full working order…. Again, you can argue about the ball detent issue all you want, but unless you CLEARLY post that information, it is misleading… either by design, or by flaw.

    You can lie or mislead without making actual false statements, at no time did I say Tom made FALSE statements. I said by the omission of information needed to get an accurate picture of what is being seen, and KNOWING that people would get the wrong IMPRESSION and draw a false conclusion, THAT is the misleading part. And I don't need to tell you how many times this has been proven in court.

    And I was going to let the whole thing drop until others wanted to dig it back up and try to make ME look like the “bad guy” for asking a logical question…. “If Tom is NOT trying to fool people, why didn’t he post the same disclaimers that he so proudly posted in the chat room?” Only pure Tom Kay and AGD worship would allow someone to NOT see that by not posting that information it is misleading.

    Tom Kaye can NEVER make a bad decision? Tom Kaye can NEVER have questionable motives or actions? Tom Kaye is ALWAYS correct in what he does and shame on anyone who points out faults even if they back it up with logical and rational arguments?

    You can lynch someone else. I will not put MY neck in the noose for you. I have reposted the points I made in my original post (which I deleted so that it would not cause further “problems”). But I clearly had to post it again so that MY side would be shown, and not only those who come in now AFTER I deleted my posts and make accusations against me.
    Quit trying to think around Tom's design. People piss and moan about everything before they even know what the hell is going on.
    WHAT? That is EXACTLY what Tom wants people to do. In ALL his posts and Chat sessions it is clear that Tom WANTS people to be chomping at the bit, getting excited, discussing it, and even arguing about it. Why else make the statement that he is trying to stir the pot?

    Tom is now working the HYPE mill, trying to make good marketing bread. But this time, without clear disclaimers, the information given is quite obviously deceptive. And EVERYONE I talked to in PMs, Chat Room, etc. all thought the same thing. This is NOT an attack on TOM, but on the manner in which he is unveiling the Level 10 upgrades. He is trying to be a showman. He is trying to create suspense. He is trying to create interest. But in doing so, he also created a very misleading thread. And to try to cover that up, or claim it didn’t happen is pure unadulterated “cover our rear and make those pointing it out look like the bad guys”.

    All that was required to prevent any misunderstandings was one simple line added to the post indicating exactly what Tom did so clearly in the Chat Room… but no such line was added. And there is no logical reason to NOT add the disclaimer, unless you want to mislead the readers. That is not MY fault, nor is it my fault for pointing it out.

    I would appreciate any further comments about what I was “trying” to do, or my “intent” be kept to yourselves. I am behind the Level 10 all the way, and openly state that it will do what AGD claims it will do, when at proper adjustments… but that video is not an indication of anything but a base setting that NOONE would even want because it does not allow you to even use the marker as it was DESIGNED to be used. And clearly many thought it WAS.

    I would be willing to state that I believe most people thought that if they were to pick up a Level 10 TODAY and have it installed in their marker, and then had it set for actual Paintball Play Use, that if they took off their hopper and did the same test, it would produce the same results seen in the video. Thus they were extremely impressed at what they saw, but were not seeing what they THOUGHT they were. And I am saying that is AGD’s fault directly, and not the viewer’s fault as many are trying to claim.

    I am not some evil guy trying to ruin AGD’s reputation or bring down his company. I was simply giving the membership the information Tom has NOT given them, and stating WHY I thought he did not. And I have not seen ONE logical argument opposing those views. I have only seen emotionally charged “save Tom Kaye from the evil SHartley” posts. So please if you would like to argue the issues, fine, but if you want to argue how “bad” I am, or what you think of me personally I am not interested.

    But that is much more interesting and “fun” than admitting that adding the following lines (or similar) to the opening post in this thread would eliminate any misinterpreting of what is being shown: “The Marker shown in this video will not push a paintball past the detent. It is at its most soft setting and noone would want their marker set to this level since it would not allow them to use the marker as designed, to shoot paintballs. If you took out the detent, it would actually shoot paintballs, but we at AGD do not sell markers that do not have detents and removing the detents are not a part of the Level 10 Upgrade.”

    However, I admit, adding such a disclaimer would make people look at the footage in quite a different light.

  23. #143
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    woooh that post took a while to read
    rt mag

  24. #144
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    wow thats a long post. i think you out did Shartley (yes i did say that)

    EDIT: sorry shartley by the time i finished reading your post i forgot who wrote it whoops
    Last edited by BTAutoMag; 06-15-2002 at 10:52 AM.

  25. #145

    ?

    ok that helped me quite abit about this upgrade well at least i know im getting it the first chance i get but now it is availiable for minimags coorrect?

  26. #146
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    Re: ?

    Originally posted by canibus
    it is availiable for minimags, correct
    Yes

  27. #147

    perfect

    im gonna buy one of these son as they come out!after this comes out man mags will rule! gj agd!

  28. #148
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    totally agree with you Shartly. no one is perfect, ppl make mistakes. it happens. obviously if the gun in the nid was in working order to use as designed, then mod 10 would be out.
    so.

  29. #149
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    I am quite impressed. But have a concern

    Its pretty clear whats going on here (in principal) I've seen other attempts to design something that did this, and even came up with a 2-stage ram idea to accomplish the same thing (Manike might remember my diagrams posted to the Tinker board)

    So the pressure ramps up as the bolt traverses forward. I'll assume the patents are already filed, can you tell us any kind of details just yet?

    Specifically-

    1) Is it a two-stage design, where the surface area is drasticly increased after the bolt has travelled X distance (like the two-stage ram I designed) Or is it a gradual increased based on some kind of flow-throttling.

    2) does this design at all mitigate the blowback associated with 'mags, their other Achillies heel.

    The reason I ask, and I am sure Tom has already considered this, Is that the dollar-bill presents a relatively stiff wall at the very back of the bolt, which is a wonderful graphic demonstration but not a good simulation of an actual paintball, what is the force like after the first 1/8"?

    Thats an important question, becuase hoards of 'ball players who are not quite stupid enough to stick their fingers into 'mags are going to stick their fingers into the '10.

    And if the bolt pressure increases quickly enough, or reaches the second stage before encountinering the surface of the paintball/finger, its going to cause a lot of hurting.

    I'm quite sure Tom will address this point

    -Curt

  30. #150
    blowback is solveable, very easily, anyone who is interested in hearing how just im me
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