Manike... Xtreme milling questions....

[Evil Bob]

I'm looking for a utilitarian mill job on the Xtreme along the lines of the SFL but with the top sight rail grooves removed, leaving enough metal on top to have the sight rail area tapped for a Weaver scope mount at my local gunsmith. Nothing fancy or pretty, just functional and light.

If you have the time, could you possibly put something together?

-Evil Bob

[synreal]

not to be rude, but i wouldn't hold your breath.

"putting something together" in almost every cad program is a substantial undertaking. i think we decided that for a completely custom, one off mill job, roughly $5,000 is a reasonable price. your best bet would most likely be to purchase an extreme and find a local shop that specializes in small run mill work to make the modifications that you want.

[nicad]

..or buy your own small CNC mill for $5000 and do it yourself..

[Evil Bob]

No prob, I know a few guys in silly valley here who have access to a CNC mill who owe me favors.

I don't have access to nor the know how to work with CAD, but that too can be worked around with people I know.

Manike, any chance I can get the CAD files for extreme?

-Evil Bob

[Vegeta]

Let me explain how this works. Manike would have to program the machine with the exact positions to perfoorm the milling on your gun. This takes hours, possibly more. And chances of getting it right the first time are slim to none. So the entire process could take up to as much as a week with polishing and annoing. All for one gun. This would cost an ungodly sum of money, up around 10,000$ USD for all the parts, and labor. Why? Becuase all thsi is only for ONE gun. If you want two of these, you price may go down to about 5,000.... get my drift? The machine has to be programmed. Programming it to do the smae process on 1000 bodies is not taht bad, but for just one.. tht is painstaking. Better to get someone close to you to do it on a manual machine bro.

[RT_Luver]

I say buy a regular Extreme and get someone to mill it urslef. once its done either way...POST PICS...I gotta see it

[manike]

Hey Bob,

I can not release the extreme CAD files, you would need to get that from AGDE (but it's unlikely they will release them).

Do you just want a flat top milled onto it with enough thickness to tap? Or is it more complex than that? If it's that simple you are way better off getting it done manually. The design work and understanding what you want/need is what would take significant time. If you were to give all measurements or even draw it in 2d and give it to me as a dxf it might be possible. The real problem is I don't have a lot of time and something like this would take time to design/model and write the code for, depending on how complex you want it.

Originally posted by Vegeta
Let me explain how this works. Manike would have to program the machine with the exact positions to perfoorm the milling on your gun. This takes hours, possibly more

I believe you are thinking of manual CNC programming. I use a CAD/CAM system. I would need to model up in 3D what Bob wants and then I use the software to generate the NC code (a couple of hundred thousand lines of code for the C&C extreme). If all Bob wanted was a flat top and two screw locations, it would take way less than an hour from start to finish to model and program. If he wanted more shape or a fixture on top for the sight it would take much longer.

Originally posted by Vegeta
And chances of getting it right the first time are slim to none.

Erm, it would be 'right first time' to the CAD model . The only reasons I have had to change the C&C code for the extreme is because people kept changing what they wanted or because they didn't like in real life what they saw on the screen. That happens it's part of the process, but the generated code always did what was expected. That's why people use CAM and our system in particular. Our normal customers are in Automotive and Aerospace and what they machine MUST be right first time. They don't often get (and certainly don't want) second chances.

Originally posted by Vegeta
All for one gun. This would cost an ungodly sum of money, up around 10,000$ USD for all the parts, and labor. Why? Becuase all thsi is only for ONE gun. If you want two of these, you price may go down to about 5,000.... get my drift? The machine has to be programmed. Programming it to do the smae process on 1000 bodies is not taht bad, but for just one..

This is true, and one of the biggest issues is that the body would have to be machined on it's own, which is three set ups, so the machining time and set up costs for one body would be large. Unless you just wanted a normal extreme everywhere else with just a flat top? And then there is also the opportunity cost. It would be stopping C&C bodies being produced... At the moment AGDE who own and run the mill are flat out making stuff, so their aren't many opportunities to get special projects or one offs in.

Bob, next time we are in chat catch me and we'll talk it through.

Nicad, you could get a decent CNC for $5000 to do 3 axis work. I was just looking at some in an auction (not seriously though), but after that you need the tooling (can be very expensive) a way to generate the CNC code (manually is cheap and gets more expensive the more complex stuff you want to do) and you need expertise I think there are cheaper and better ways to get stuff done.

I was at one point seriously thinking about offering one off completely custom CNC mill jobs, but the cost would be at least $2,000 moving upto about $5,000 depending on complexity and mill time. I'm not sure if anyone would actually pay that for a one off, and also at the moment to be honest I don't have the time.

manike

[Timmee]

Hey, Manike, can you recommend any books that would teach someone how to take a cad file and generate the cnc codes? Would the process of generating these codes vary by the cad program used to generate the model?

[manike]

Q. Hey, Manike, can you recommend any books that would teach someone how to take a cad file and generate the cnc codes?

A. The manuals that come with the software... You can get books on how to hand write CNC code but that isn't from a CAD part... see below...


Q. Would the process of generating these codes vary by the cad program used to generate the model?

A. The basic principles are similar but it does vary significantly depending on what software you use. (at least between top end and bottom end software anyway).

manike

[Gecko]

Timmee your best bet to learn this stuff is to check around your local vocational high schools and Community colleges and see what courses they offer. There are 2 main ways to generate code for CNC.
(1 Manually, this has you code in raw form using the language the machine understands. example g00 x0.5 y-2
That has the machine move the head to the right .5 and away 2 from you. Codeing large programs with circular moves and such stuff is a pain but is good to know
(2 Software This is what most cnc programming is done in. There are 8 million different programs available to do this Tebis (Manike works for them), Mastercam, Top Cam etc. In these you generate an actual model in the computer and then the computer looks at the model and writes the neccesary code.
Well that was more than you probably wanted to know but i'm bored at work so thats what you get
Gecko

[Vegeta]

OK OK i was close....

I knew you had to program/draw up soomething, I guess I was thinking of the CAD work.

[Timmee]

Originally posted by Gecko

(1 Manually, this has you code in raw form using the language the machine understands. example g00 x0.5 y-2
That has the machine move the head to the right .5 and away 2 from you. Codeing large programs with circular moves and such stuff is a pain but is good to know

Gecko

Why does this remind me of the little turtle on the C64? Wow, was I good at LOGO.

[Evil Bob]

Manike -

Basicly what I'm looking for is the Xtreme without all the extra metal and fancy swooping lines that the current C&C has, granted it's pretty, but I'm not in it for looks, I want functionality, strictly utilitarian. Ideally along the lines of the SFL from Shocktech, really cut down, with the valve assembly covered more. I don't want grit, sand, mud, dirt, ect. getting in and around the bolt/spring and possibly causing problems during a game or worse causing excessive wear in that area.

I know you have the generic Xtreme cad files, you've posted the axis drawings on here in the past. I can also understand not handing them out without AGDE's permission, no problem, I'll bug John about it via email.

At worst case, I'll buy an unfinished Xtreme body from Tom and do the work myself. Here in Silicon Valley, there are people who will kill to get work, and as I said before, I know guys with the hardware who own me favors, so it won't be too difficult.

I always love asking for info and having all the nay sayers come out of the wood work and say it can't be done. Just gives me more incentive to do it just to piss em off.

-Evil Bob

[Timmee]

Thanks for the info. I think I might just have to go back and take some more classes at the college.