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Thread: Offical LVL10, Reports from the Field Thread

  1. #1
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    Offical LVL10, Reports from the Field Thread

    Beta testers,

    Report your results here now that we have some units out in the field. We had a first report from Brian123 on Swarm and he said the system rocked in another thread.

    AGD

  2. #2
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    Do not post in this thread unless you're reporting results from testing LVL 10.

    Things we'll be looking for:

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    -Efficiency

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    -Any problems you encountered

    -Other general comments
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 06-28-2002 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Elgin, IL USA
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    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    It took around 15 minutes to setup.

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    E-mag #00601

    -Efficiency

    Seemed to be around the same maybe a little LESS efficient.
    (flatline tank pressure guage was wrong)

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    0 chops 0 breaks Nelson Anarchy Paint. Over 6,500 rounds run through the marker on Fri + Sat.

    -Any problems you encountered

    OCCASIONAL tiny leak down barrel that went away when I 'hit' the side of the mainbody near the bolt.



    THIS GUN IS SWEET!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #4
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    <b>-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly </b>
    The guys from Pride that went to the factory to get their lvl 10's installed spent about 3 hours fine tuning everything. This was before Tom had the "tweeners" so we had to go thru about 7 carrier o-rings each to find the right fit. Once we had the parts down, I'm able to install the kit within 5 min.

    One thing you will have to keep in mind is that you will need to have your output pressure from your tank set to approx 800psi and you may have to crank your velocity nut up much further than you had it set at using the old internals. I found that since my tank was set at initally 600psi output, it was starving the gun when I rapid fired. Easily fixed.

    <b>-The type of gun you're using it on </b>
    E-mag w/ Warp + 12volt Revy. 4500psi 68cu Flatline

    <b>-Efficiency </b>
    I'd have to agree with the123 on the efficiency. It seems that the gun is a little less efficient but this is not very noticable, perhaps a loss of 100 - 200 psi overall.

    <b>-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used </b>
    I played today at Paintball Sam's scenario game and I had 2 breaks down the barrel, no chops with about 1000rds shot. This was using Diablo Blaze that had a pretty thick shell. It was roughly 3+ bounce paint.

    <b>-Any problems you encountered </b>
    One of the issues that I had was that when the barrel would flex, (ie. resting your barrel on top of a chrono), I would get a small leak down the barrel. This was fixed by replacing the o-ring in the carrier to another with a tighter fit and replacing the barrel o-rings.

    <b>-Other general comments</b>
    All in all, I am amazed with the way that the lvl 10 worked today. I managed to place my gun in weird positions that I knew would chop a ball using the old internals (ie. all the way on its side), only now to hear a "pssst" whenever the bolt caught on a ball.

    Using an E-mag in combination with a warp and the lvl 10 upgrade is definately going to give any player an advantage over their competition.

  5. #5
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    It took me aproxamately 1/2 hour from start to finish to get the level 10 running, and working well.

    the level 10 was installed ina 1995 micromag 2, running a PVI maxflow, shredder, and an oldschool lapco barrel.

    I didn't get any efficancy numbers...

    As for chops... I did manage to get the gun to fire 2 balls at once a time or two due to short stroking... but that's it. not a broken ball in the 500 I shot tonight. Half the paint was paint from blitz... tough paint. The other half was Polar ice that didn't get the last step done to it so it was disgustingly fragile. it would crack from a 4-6' drop.

    There has to be a better way to get the o-ring carriers out of the gun. At least in my AIR they stick in there REALLY REALLY well...


    Update: I took the micromag to badlandz this weekend (the 14th) And I handed my micromag to a newbie for the day. As if it's a change :-) the only thing that was dirty was the OUTSIDE of the mag. So that puts another 1000 rounds through the level 10. this time chronyed at 290. medium spring too :-)
    Last edited by nerobro; 07-17-2002 at 02:17 AM.
    To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

    Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

    "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."


  6. #6
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    May 2001
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    Elgin, IL USA
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    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    About 20 minutes.

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    Automag #CF02704 AGD double trigger, Halo-B on top

    -Efficiency

    I could get at least 4 pods and a hopper with a 45/4500psi tank. Same as before.

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    0 chops 0 breaks, 1500 balls shot, Nelson Challenger paint

    -Any problems you encountered

    I short stroked 1 time and had 2 balls come out. No biggie.

    -Other general comments

    I feel special being on the field without a squeegie.
    Less weight to hold me down

  7. #7
    SteveD Guest
    It took about 10-15 minutes to get it installed and running properly in my E-Mag on Saturday. I had to work the booth all day so I didn't get the chance to put it to the test 'til Sunday.

    I couldn't comment, yet, on the efficiency but I was throwing tubes of paint in the ice chest to get the paint as brittle as possible and then hammered on it to TRY to pinch some paint. That's hard to do with a Warp but I managed a few with NO ball breaks. This gun just rocks.

    Steve D
    AGD Lions

  8. #8
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    Wow! I just spent the last three days at AGDE going through some milling stuff and fine tuning the new C&C's (saw the first production intent anno'd one BTW and it looks stunning!)

    Anyway some beta test level 10 kits arrived on Monday Morning and I got the first one out of the box (my arms are longer than Johns's and anyway he was slow from having been up until 4.00m running test files on the mill)

    John installed it on my old original RT (with vert feed body) and with a stock CF grip frame (I'll put my sprung loaded trigger frame onto it at some point... ). It took him about 20-25 minutes because he wouldn't RTFM and because too many cooks were trying to get their hands on the parts (John Bonich was over also)

    I think he tried 3 different carriers and two bolt springs (used the stock one by mistake to start with) before getting it up and running properly. Ended up with the longest spring and it was shooting at just under 300fps.

    No idea on the efficiency because we were low on air. It definitely runs out of power more abruptly though. You don't seem to get as much shootdown when using the gun as it runs out of air. It's all seems ok, and then suddenly you are out of air and don't get any more shots.

    So onto the shooting test (s). We were using some very brittle paint which would break first time from waist high. The gun shot it fine when used normally, so the hopper was turned off and I tried to shoot as fast as possible while tilting the gun from 90 degrees on one side over to 90 on the other. It shot several hoppers of the paint without a break. It must have stopped on about 20 balls at least and you hear a little 'pst' sound but it makes little difference to your rhythm when you keep firing. Sometimes when a ball is pinched it would then double load but fire both out cleanly on the next shot. (a small price to pay!)

    My Vert feed RT is a very early prototype body and it has a vent hole on the side where you can look into the feed tube and breech. I could hold the gun on it's side, roll a ball half way into the breech and then pull the trigger Usually resulting in soup with any paint... not this time. I would pull the trigger 3-4 times resulting in several pinches before the ball would be pulled in and fired straight out without breaking! And this with paint that would break first time when dropped from waist height...

    So onto some even more brittle paint... This would break first time from knee height! same test with hopper turned off and tilting the gun on it's side. Again lots of nice 'pst' noises and no chops! We put several hoppers through of this paint until I finally managed to get a chop, It was after pinching probably 20-30 of the balls that I found one fragile enough to break.

    So we wondered how some other guns would fair shooting the same paint? Out comes a Sov II and my Spearhead Autococker, both set up to be as gentle on paint as possible. They would both shoot loaded balls fine but when tilting the gun over and purposely causing misfeeds the Autococker got out about 5 shots before chopping a ball. The Sov was shooting it fine but as soon as a ball didn't feed it made one hell of a mess!

    When taking the hopper off the Sov some paint fell from about 4 feet onto the grass... and broke! We put the remainder through the RT with quite a few 'pst's but no breaks!!!

    Ok, so now we were scouring around for some very brittle paint. All the old crap and rubbish that we could find... and then John put it into the freezer A few hours later we took it out to see how brittle it was (it was freezing my fingers). A ball dropped from waist high, broke first time, A ball from knee high broke first time, a ball from 1 foot broke first time and a ball dropped from 6"! broke first time! In fact all balls would break from just over a foot. If it didn't break on the first contact, on the second smaller bounce back up it would... So into the gun it goes and I let lose. The RT is shooting it all fine so we try and force misfeeds. The now familiar 'pst' was heard but then we did eventually chop one. I laid the gun on it's side and tried misfeeding balls one at a time, it would stop on 2/3 balls that would otherwise break when being dropped from less than a foot!

    You should have seen the grins on our faces! John had to almost restrain me from emptying the rest of his paint store through my RT!

    For the next 'scientific test' I sacrificed my finger to science. To get an idea of the bolt force in the different guns. I must admit I was suprised by how much force the RT still had on my finger, it was more than I was expecting but not enough to hurt. And then I put my finger in the Sov II, which had significantly more force than the RT now! My cocker, which will normally stop on Hellfire paint also had significantly more force than the RT. (my cocker is normally comparable to a matrix with trinity mod). WOW!

    So anyway I want to check what velocity we are getting, so we take an e-mag with the kit over to the chrono... first shot was 299 and John goes to turn away happy that we were at tourny velocity levels, and I'm like 'no fire some more' second shot was 299... and john goes to turn away before I complain again, he turns back and the third shot is 300fps! I was simply stunned.

    We must have shot at least 4 cases through this gun, trying to chop the whole way!

    All in all a great day and my RT has a whole new lease of life. Can't wait to put an Iframe on it and start handing it out for others to try. Any Europeans who want can try and find me in Toulouse and you can use it for yourselves!

    problems encountered? They wouldn't give me enough kits for all my guns and all my friends that have mags

    Oh and we also put it to use in conjunction with the eye on an Extreme. This is the ultimate combination in my opinion, no breaks and no 'psts'. Just one long stream of extremely brittle paint... Can't wait to get my gun, some hellfire and go play a tournament!

    manike

    p.s. the manik-e-magbody got machined on Monday also and boy does it look better in real life than the virtual image. No piccies till it's annodised and finished though The body now weighs 5.5oz It started off at 11.25!

    Boy was that a long post! Shartley eat your heart out

  9. #9
    I got my LX today too! (Thanks Manike!)

    I think I'm the first one who's posted who's actually putting it on an old (REALLY OLD) PF Mag instead of an emag/RT/Pro.
    Edit: NeroBro put his on a Micromag, but I'm still sure this is the oldest mag so far... (SN: ProMag0271)

    I have air & paint to try, but no chrony. Hmmm. That'll have to wait until sunday!

    We managed to get the LX mod installed in about 20 mins. We used the 2-stripe o-ring carrier, the biggest mainspring and 2 shims.

    Some things we noticed from dry-firing...

    1. The trigger pull seems a little harder than before.

    2. It seems a little less efficient, although I only had about 1.2k in my dive bottle to test on... enough for maybe 100 or so shots on a 0.9l tank.

    3. We still get the odd little hissing leak when there's no pressure left in the tank.

    We dont know the velocity 'cause we dont have a chrono (and also 'cause jon forgot to bring some barrels!), but it feels like it kicks the same as before.

    We tried the 'Dollar bill' test but it's a little hard with a powerfeed.

    We also tried the 'Dangle-ball' test, and it worked flawlessly; didnt break a single ball.

    So Far, so good.

    More after we try it on-field this sunday.

    Jan.
    Last edited by JanStah; 06-25-2002 at 04:12 PM.
    He's not the messiah! He's a very naughty boy!


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    Milwaukee, WI
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    -30 min to install in emag/warp

    -1.5 carrier and middle bolt spring

    -efficiency seems to be the same

    -shot 3/4 of a case of blaze, 0 chops. The paint was not very brittle but I shot the gun gangsta style the whole time. This kind of shooting would have chopped all kinds paint with the old setup.

    -I had the same prob with the barrel that Scooter had

    -This thing is awesome. I cannot wait to shoot some brittle paint with this thing.
    "Shoot straight up in the air and hit the other team on top of the head...European teams do it all the time" D.A. 2001 Gettysburg

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
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    30min. install in my e-mag
    10min. in my RT

    Once you know what you're doing it goes pretty quick.

    Efficency- Maybee a little less but nothing to complain about.

    Breakage- Nothing in the e-mag after about 1000rnds I was at Sam's on Sunday with Steve and put some blaze on ice for an hour and shot it through my e-mag with a revy on top (no warp) and it still shot fine. I have 500rnds through my RT and since I haven't shot it in a while I short-stroked the crap out of it and still couln't break anything.

    I love the Lv10. It is simply unbelievable!!!
    Timmy

    Factory Team AGD Pride
    Butterscotch Yo

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    near Chicago
    Posts
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    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
    3 hours (including on field to adjust the velocity)

    -The type of gun you're using it on
    E-mag with warped feed
    -Efficiency
    estimating less (look in general comments)
    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
    0 chops of 1000
    -Any problems you encountered
    changing velocity and others (look in general comments)
    -Other general comments
    When got to the field i realized that i forgot my sear pin, so i invented something that worked. I had to rent a tank (with a broken guage) and when it was filled they filled it differently every time, so i dont know for sure if it is less efficiant, but it felt like it was. I had my power feed missadjusted so i had to push each ball in and many balls got stuck between the breach, BUT NO BREAKS.

    __________________
    Marc

  13. #13

    level10

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    20 minutes total - 1.5 carrier, 2 shims, and the long spring

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    Minimag

    -Efficiency

    less

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    0 chops, 0 breaks, marballizer

    -Any problems you encountered

    No problems, except maybe the fact that you have almost no warning (besides obviously the gauge) when you run out of air...it just stops...
    Last edited by complicationjack; 06-30-2002 at 09:37 AM.
    minimag with retro valve lvl 10 -- 10" dye ss -- intelliframe -- kapp dropzone II + gas thru -- 12volt revvy -- 68ci n2

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Moses Lake, WA
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    347
    Level 10 is SOOOO Cool! Just installed it in my sons Classic Mag. I have a Superbolt in my Emag, so I wanted to hold on to it until I saw how Level 10 worked. Besides I haven't chopped or broke a ball in my Emag since I got my HALO B back.

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly.
    45 minutes with an additional 10 to set velocity. Carrier is 1.5 with the longest spring. 2 shims.

    -The type of gun you're using it on.
    Classic Mag, Dye double trigger grip, Flatline 68/3000, Armson Stealth barrel.

    -Efficiency.
    Slightly less, I used to get 7-800 balls per fill, got just about 650, but I had some dry shots while setting velocity, so only slightly less.

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used.
    Couldn't get it to chop or break paint down the barrel, including turning the Revy off and shooting as fast as I can. (Maybe 7-8 BPS) AllStar Advantage paint.

    -Any problems you encountered.
    Pay very close attention to the shims when you install the tip. I used the Level 10 for dummies version instructions, and slightly tilted the valve, one shim slid in the way and got bent, this took me a little while to figure out, so I think I can install the next one in 10 minutes, and then set velocity.

    -Other general comments

    Suggestion, make the shims a little bigger diameter so they can't slide in the way. Include a few more shims of the current size until they can be resized. Just for the BETA versions. The Street versions need to have the bigger diameter versions.

    Finally: WOW, Tom you are a genius!!

    Input Pressure: 800 PSI

    Bill
    Last edited by Bwaites; 07-03-2002 at 08:38 AM.
    The meek shall inherit the Earth, but they better not show up to play paintball with me!!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Brussels, Belgium
    Posts
    377
    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    Donno, done by AGD-E on my Emag C&C.

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    Emag Extreme C&C + ACE + LVL10

    -Efficiency

    Slightly lower, very slighly.

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    0, nada. Test done with very old paint (Tornado), Severe and the latest Zap Chronic. Paints were 3-4 bounces before break, and 0 bounce comming from the freezer for one of the test hehe.

    I shot around 2000 balls.
    The real test will be Toulouse, of course.

    EDIT: Over the 5 cases of paint shot at Toulouse, no shop, even with the battery dead on my revo , and that was with the ACE disabled.

    -Any problems you encountered

    Not the smalest one.
    I tend to go with the comment of Manike about the shootdown just before you run out of air. With the mod 10 it seems the marker works perfectly, then just stop firing. That's not a problem of course.

    -Other general comments

    The kickback I had with my old Emag is gone, as are the shops.
    Incredible improvement of the mags!
    Last edited by Pand0ra; 07-11-2002 at 06:34 PM.
    Intimidator Shocktech with Technatrigger.
    AGD Emag Extreme C&C Lvl10 ACE.
    "Pandora, that is the FIRST C&C Extreme to ever be sold." Manike

    "Destruction and reckless abandon. And you all helped to create it!
    WAY TO GO!" The EVE Online Team

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
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    First practice with LEVEL 10

    For the setup see my previous post except i put the longest bolt spring in.

    -efficiency-about 800 shots out of a 68 4500

    -# of breaks- ZERO (aprox. 1500 rounds blaze paint) I tried to make it chop.

    -problems- the bolt stuck on me acouple of times during the first two games. I turned the air off and on and it started working again. Then I ran a little oil through it and didn't have a problem the rest of the day.

    -comments- Awesome. I broke alot of paint with the emag before this mod, that seems to be a thing of the past. It is like a completely different gun.

  17. #17
    Join Date
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    At practice today I put my e-cocker aside and used my RT with level 10. Now this gun is set up with a stock single finger Carbon fibre trigger frame and let me state 'that I can no longer shoot single finger trigger frames on mechanical guns'

    I've been corrupted by double triggers (have been using one since they first came out over 6 years ago!) and electro triggers. So my technique with a mechanical trigger and using just one finger sucked! I managed many short strokes and would normally have been breaking my share of paint.

    I didn't break one ball all day! Even when fluffing the trigger there were still no broken balls. Puts an end to short stroking worries!

    What makes this doubly amazing is that I was using 2 year old hellfire! yep two years old . It's stuff that I have had in my garage and spare room and attic and forgot about, I couldn't use it before because it was just too brittle and made a hell of a mess. Today, apart from the fact that it was sweating and some of it covered in a white powder it shot beautifully! (ask Jan and Jonneh hehehe) I shot a case and a bit of it with no problems or issues.

    I wasn't using my Halo B either, just a normal rev with low batteries (didn't bother to change them as it was more of a test).

    Several of the guys used to shoot RT's and were stunned. I asked one to put his finger in the breech and pulled the trigger, he jumped a mile before realising how little force there was. Their comment was 'wish they'd done that years ago'...

    ok, a few issues have arrived with my set up though. I find the main tank reg needs to be giving a higher pressure to keep it all running right. I'm feeding it at about 800psi (which my AIR isn't too happy about... can't wait to get my Armageddon tank back from test).

    Also to get the velocity I think the gun is now running very close to the relief valve pressure. Sometimes (with both of my RT's that I've had the level 10 in) the gun starts venting out the back of the velocity adjustment screw. By running at a little lower velocity it solves this but not always. Every now and then it starts venting again. I wonder if maybe you could increase the relief blow off point? I don't want to change to a shorter spring, if that means the bolt force is increased... (not sure if that would help this problem anyway?).

    Also sometimes I get a slight leak down the powertube, by putting a very slight pressure on the trigger the leak then stops... I'm thinking this means that the little hole on the bolt plunger is very close to the carrier o-ring positions and pulling the trigger pushes the bolt back just slightly (before releasing it) and thus pushes the hole back behind the o-ring... now I'm thinking I could fix this by taking out a shim... only I don't have any shims at all in my RT set up

    Other than that this does feel like a whole different gun! As Pandora points out the kick is seriously reduced over a normal RT also.

    I use a vert feed body and there is way less blowback than the old set up also.

    I can't wait for my extreme to be back from the annodisers! I also need to get an inteliframe for my RT, with a blade double trigger my vert feed RT will be perfect the perfect back up (and loaner) to my extreme e-mag!

    manike

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    near Chicago
    Posts
    175
    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
    less that 3 hours (no field adjusting was required)

    -The type of gun you're using it on
    Emag with warped feed

    -Efficiency
    unnoticible change

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
    0 breaks or chops out of 2000 paintball i found in my basement that are atleast 6 months old. types include JT, RP Premium, BigBall, RP thermal (what ever the name is, the kind u use in winter), and a few types i couldnt figure out what they were
    -Any problems you encountered
    one double feeding which broke a few feet from the barrel

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Elgin, IL USA
    Posts
    724
    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    15-20 minutes, #2 carrier, stock spring, approx. 800psi

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    E-mag with Classic Valve #02704 (about 11yrs. old, still had a spring for the PT spacer), #2 carrier and stock spring, Warpfeed w/ dual 9v's in Parallel, Halo Hopper

    -Efficiency

    Slightly less it seems.

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    Friday: 1300 cheapest Challenge Park Xtreme paint (Blaze I think, if anyone else knows, speak up) 0 and 0
    Saturday: 1100 Nelson Challenger 0 and 0
    Sunday: 1000 Nelson Nel-Splat 0 and 0, 600 RPS (2 years old, non-dryshell formula, shooting in runaway hybrid mode 16BPS) 0 chops 3 breaks, then used a straight shot, then put 300 nelson challenger 16bps runaway, 0 and 0
    Monday: 300 Nelson Challenger 1 chop 0 breaks (another runaway demo for a friend of mine)

    -Any problems you encountered

    Tiny leak down barrel that goes away when I tap the side of the mainbody with my hand, or when I cycle the marker.
    If the N2 tank output pressure is set too low it seems the gun will not shoot. A problem, only if your N2 regulator is inconsistant.

    -Other general comments
    I never thought my E-mag could go into runaway in Hybrid mode with the CLASSIC Mag valve!
    My warp batteries are dying, i've put about 10,000 paintballs through the same batteries. This last test on monday pinched about 10-12 balls before chopping that single ball.
    The past 3 weeks, i've shot close to 6 cases of paint, and with only 1 chop and 3 breaks with the Level 10 setup.

    Everyone that has this kind of luck with THEIR Level 10 should send AGD a Thankyou card.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    943
    Originally posted by the123
    E-mag with Classic Valve #02704 (about 11yrs. old
    For real your using an AIR valve in a E-mag?
    I'm just curious, why?

    Conversion emags used whatever stock valve you had. thats my guess here...Reminder though...DO NOT POST HERE unless reporting actual install experience! But I will leave this as a reminder. use PM or start a new thread if you want to ask questions to an individual user - cphilip

    LOL! nice signature insert!
    Last edited by cphilip; 07-02-2002 at 06:57 AM.
    Thanotos

    http://www.factcheck.org

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Kansas City, MO USA
    Posts
    1,765

    Bravo! Bravo!

    I just got my Level 10 and I didnt have time to FULLY explore its potential - but this is what I found out:

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    About 20-30 min

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    Mr. Orange - My Emag

    -Efficiency

    Didn't shoot it enough to reach a conclusion

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    See report below

    -Any problems you encountered

    none (other than low on air)

    -Other general comments

    OK - I was very short on time - and low on air. But I took out the parts and got to work. It took about 15-20 min to swap the parts out - partly because I took it real slow as to not screw something up - and partly because I was distracted. I was doing this at my local store (the new warped sports in KC) and was showing of the new bolt etc to anyone who was with in 5 ft of me.

    I put it together per Toms "fast start" instructions. Gassed it up - no leaks - no shooting either. Cranked the velociy probably a full turn or two (Tom - what is the operating pressue of the mag now with the level 10? Does this change the optimal length for barrel acceleration?)This resulted in the gun shooting. Took it out back with some free - but crappy "rec" paint. Chronoed 290-300ish. OK - good to go.

    The Test!

    Took some electrical tape and one of the rec balls. It was 2-3 bounce paint - not real brittle - but average for what you will find on many fields. Used the tape to put a ball in only 1/2 way. HOLY COW - THE BOLT BOUNCES OFF THE BALL! YAY IT WORKS! IT WORKS!!!

    I dont know about everyone else - but I had LOW ball breakage in my emag w/warpfeed and pre BE Rev. BUT - I did managed to break ALOT in tournies due to A) not turning on the rev or B) not stopping when the rev was out of paint. No doubts - I would break if I managed to screw up and misfeed my gun.

    My "idiot" test I ran was using the warp, emag on 16 bps semi, and turn the rev *off*. I jiggled the gun while fanning the trigger. It sputtered and burped and shot - but it got rid of the hopper with NO breaks!

    I then decided to just rip a hopper with some paint at 16bps - out running the rev - but still having fun. Now here - I had about 3 barrel breaks - and the reason was I was LOW on air - i would get a ball stuck 1/2 way in the barrel and the second ball would smack into it. Im sure of this because I slowed down and watched this happen. It wasnt chopping!

    I hope to this weekend go out and fine tune it to shoot paint thats so brittle from being frozen - more report to follow!

    great job Tom - its a keeper!

    Problems or questions with the site or your account? Email me: webmaster@automags.org I collect old guns and paintball gear. Email me if you have stuff to sell!

    Paintball Never Dies - www.vintagerex.com

  22. #22
    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
    45-60 minutes.
    -The type of gun you're using it on
    RT w/Inteliframe
    -Efficiency
    Seems similar to before, but when I turn off the flatline, I get two shots, then nothing. No leak, no hiss, no anything. Guess that flatline gauge is really important.
    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
    0-500 RPS stored in my closet for the last few weeks.
    -Any problems you encountered
    I apperently didnt seat the oring in the carrier correctly, as the fit felt very tight, until I tried to fire. At first it wouldnt, until I cranked the velocity up, and then after four or five shots it started leeking horrendously.
    -Other general comments
    Rippin'. I would install the ORing, and try all of the carriers to see which two or three are the best. Then, check the markings to see sizes, if one is way off the others, dont consider using it.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Northbridge, MA, USA
    Posts
    600
    Originally posted by BlackVCG
    Do not post in this thread unless you're reporting results from testing LVL 10.

    Things we'll be looking for:

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    -Efficiency

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    -Any problems you encountered

    -Other general comments
    It took me about 15 minutes to get it up and running. 5-8 of them were trying to figure out what the diff. parts were. (I printed out the instructions but forgot to print the diagram outlining the parts).

    I'm using my Minimag (Alice) with a evil reactor valve which does nothing. (Shows it works even with evil aftermarket parts)

    For the Efficiency I did see a dropoff a little. It wasn't extremely noticable, but I get my tank topped off after every game.

    I shot 1000 rounds of JT Maxim, and 1000 rounds of Inferno, I got zero breaks from chops/barrel

    I didn't have any problems, and was overly happy when I thought that I would test it out hardcore, and took off my warp and revvy and finally found a use for that VL200 we get when we buy a new mag. Put that on the top and even though it didn't even come close to keeping up while I fanned the trigger, it didn't chop once! I was also using the Plastic nubbins if that also matters, I didn't double feed as others have.
    Once you have shot and eliminated someone, you have established your position towards them. In a sense, the next move is up to them...

    See ya in the dead box!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Racine Wis.
    Posts
    89
    Results so far with the LVL10 are outstanding!

    Since the team has upgraded 2weeks ago we have gone
    through approx. 20cases of various brands of paint
    and all types of feed systems from warps to vert.highrise
    and there have been no chopping issues what so ever!
    Gun types from RT's to Retro's and Emag's

    There is aprox.a 10 to 20 percent loss in effeciency, however
    the accuracy seems to have improved by at least 10 percent with the new super bolt so its definately an acceptable trade off not to mention NO CHOPPING!

    Excellent work AGD!

    Harry

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delmar, NY
    Posts
    83
    Originally posted by BlackVCG
    Do not post in this thread unless you're reporting results from testing LVL 10.

    Things we'll be looking for:

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    -Efficiency

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    -Any problems you encountered

    -Other general comments
    It took me about 45 minutes to set it up in my minimag (with AIR valve). It took awhile because I had some issues with the main spring (see below). I followed the "Fast start" instructions, set it up with the 2 carrier, had barrel leaks, so I then switched to the 1.5 carrier and no longer had barrel leaks.

    I've only fired it in my backyard a little bit so at this point I can't really comment on efficiency or actual game performance, however I really enjoyed sticking things into the breech and seeing the bolt bounce off.

    I ran into some problems with velocity. I started with the clipped spring that came with the kit, and eventually switched down to my old bolt spring, which is the shortest one I had available. That was the only spring with which I could get the mag to fire without the regulator venting. Even then, my range of velocity adjustment was limited. What can I do to either A) increase the range of velocity adjustment with that spring, or B) get it to fire with the other springs, and without the regulator venting?

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    WWW.INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM
    Posts
    3,816
    The regulator venting has been a slight issue with my gun. But I was using the longest bolt spring and trying to set it as softly as possible while staying right at the velocity limit.

    I'm curious as to what carrier everyone is using? Is it worth a seperate thread? (mods if it is please cut this out and start one) if not it would be nice for everyone who hasn't already stated it to do so.

    I am using carrier 1.5, I was using 2 but brought it down (and thus tighter) after a slight barrel leak.

    manike

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delmar, NY
    Posts
    83
    After more tuning, I switched to the 2 carrier, and using my old mainspring, got a sufficient range of velocity adjustment that I think should be fine for indoor or outdoor.

    For those who haven't yet tested, make sure that you really wear in the powertube o-ring that goes in the carrier.

    Manike, I think people can just state in here what setup they used. Again, my setup was the 2 carrier, with my original mainspring.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Northbridge, MA, USA
    Posts
    600
    I used the 2 carrier, longest spring, with 900psi pressure, and the closest screwed in reg nut where it wouldn't blow off.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Houston TX/Baton Rouge LA
    Posts
    648
    Hey guys, I got my level 10 kit on the first of July. Here is the ghetto testing setup:

    · Classic Automag- CF63652
    · Z-grip
    · Standard/classic feed (which ever you like to call it)
    · Co2 with smart parts on/off valve
    · VL 200
    · (Ghetto(if you know what I mean)heh)



    Anyway I had just got my tank filled earlier that day, around noon. At about 5 or so the ups man came and brought me my package. (I hate ups they don’t come to my house till 5) I opened it up and took out a bag and inside that bag was a box with 3 springs and a bolt and another bag with some baggy stuff in it. I couldn’t get on the computer because my brother was on. So I waited. When I finally got on I got the instructions and I followed them good.

    Some problems that I faced:
    · Once I got it set up it took me about 3 guesses to guess which carrier to use.
    · When I got it in there, the velocity was too low and I had to jack the velocity up quite a bit. The trigger was pressurized but it wouldn’t shoot.
    · When it was finally cycling, I tried to put some paint though it, but the setting was on so light it wouldn’t shoot. It would should like its pinching and it pushed the ball past the nubbin and it wouldn’t work.
    · After that I talked with Cphilip, I put in a longer spring and again I had to turn up the velocity some more. Not a big problem. But then when I was dry firing it about 3-4 balls per second it would stop cycling after about 3 shots until I stopped shooting for about 10 seconds. Sounded like shoot down but I don’t really know what shoot down sounds like.
    · Phil said to put in the shortest new spring so I did. Every thing sounded okay when I dry fired it but then I went outside to put some paint though it and it kind of sputtered a little and then quit. I started to panic and I took my spyder and screwed on the tank and then it was out of air so then I was relieved
    · I am now out of air.




    The next day...

    Today I got my tank filled. It was fun but it took a long time. When I got home I gassed it up and shot about 10 shots. Air was leaking out of my air fitting so I reteflon-tapped it and its good now. I was about to put my finger in the breah but then I put a pen in and it look like it hurt the pen so I was like “It’s too much” and then I put in the middle spring and it was all good. I shot about 300 shots but I am about to go out and shoot some more. I had 0 chops or breaks. I was using about 4 week old PMI premium. Then I shot my finger and I felt that the foamy was gone so I didn’t have a foamy in there but it still shot about the same.

    Here are the questions answered.

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
    about an hour.
    -The type of gun you're using it on
    Its up there
    -Efficiency
    It appeared to be less.
    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
    0/0 4 week old PMI Premium paint
    -Any problems you encountered
    Look up…
    -Other general comments
    Noting really, but the trigger pull seem to be a little bit harder or I just didn’t notice how it was
    Before




    One of the best upgrades for your mag! I highly recommend it.

    EDIT: i forgot to say thanks to cphilip and jonneh!! thanks guys
    Last edited by wes; 07-02-2002 at 07:05 PM.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Rocky Top, TN
    Posts
    4,855
    (Mods I'll delete this once you've had a chance to see it)

    The one thing that people haven't been saying that i think maybe beneficial is what input pressure people are running. Manike had noted earlier that sometimes the gun starves without enough on the input side...so i was just wondering whether or not that also might be beneficial to Tom.

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