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Thread: Offical LVL10, Reports from the Field Thread

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    I'm homeless
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    1,231
    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    It took around 45 minutes to get it to finally work. About ten minutes was used getting familiar with the instructions and parts.

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    RT Pro

    -Efficiency

    I'm not sure. My gauge is apparently acting funny.

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    ZERO chops or breaks. I shot only 300 rounds of paint until my tank was empty. But the paint was 2 year old Proball.

    -Any problems you encountered

    My only problem was getting the carrier back out of the power tube. wesley was on AO chat and told me a pen. I didn't have one handy, so he recommended a small screwdriver - which worked well. Thanks wes!

    -Other general comments

    I forgot the order in which the carriers got larger. Maybe they should be in the instructions 2.0

    My carrier o-rings were also already on the carriers.

    My delrin washer wasn't black. Mine was an off-white color. I was kind of confused by the instructions/picture and with what I had in my kit.

    Other than that, nice job AGD!

    ***Update***

    I forgot some info.

    I'm using carrier 2.5 with middle spring.

    My tank is under 800psi right now, so I think that is why my reactivity isn't very reactive. Anybody else getting funny reactiveness? I'll have to refill to tell for sure.
    Last edited by nippinout; 07-03-2002 at 04:57 PM.

  2. #32
    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
    -Not very long..I lucked out and the first setup worked great-Maybe 10 mins

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    Regular old standard Mag

    -Efficiency
    I was using CO2 on this test...so hard to tell. I will update when I can get my HPA tank filled. I used a 20oz full C02 tank for this.

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    I had about 100 balls ranging in age and type since I started paintball 4 years ago--Brass Eagle, Marbs, Team Colors, etc. NO CHOPS. This old crappy stuff Didn't break. Either did some unknown brand new unknown paint I had in my pods.

    [/b]-Any problems you encountered
    None yet[/b]..it was a quick test--Too darn hot out now.

    -Other general comments
    This rocks..
    Regarding the above post about the white carrier....Yea lol I was searching the rug below me for a couple mins trying to find a black carrier I thought I lost. Note to AGD--Update the instruction about the color .

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
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    easthampton, MA 01027
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    1st and formost WWWWOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!

    took about 20 min (once i was able to undo my old PT tip... TK you got gorillas puttin these things on???) =)
    for now i have the 1.5 carrier though i still hear a very, very small leak down the barrel (have to hold ear upto p/f to hear it) middle spring, 2 spacers.... this was done with no chrony... i'm going to my local field 2nite (indoor team nite) and need to get to a 275fps or lower....
    needed to crank on the back of my retro (2 1/2 turns) to get it to fire to what sounded normal..... also as a side effect for the first time sence i got my retro it went into runaway.... was able to control it but i think i will need to drop my input down to 1k or less, running 1.1k at time of install

    went into my miniRT/Zgrip

    as far as effciency.. .cant really say... i started with 3.5k in my tank and 2k in my scuba... needless to say i need to get it filled again

    had 2 chops and about 15 break down the barrel.... though i am sure it was the paint.... 4 mo old BE (hey it was 20 for the case shipped) =) and there were at least 2 cracked/broken ballz in the bag of 500 i shot.... i switched over to about 400 each of diablo rec spot and 32°TC both of which went through fine... i could hear the bolt only pinchin on the ballz (as i was/left it with the runaway for this first test)... i know now i need to redjust my warp senseitivity... though i was not watchin it real close but it was most likely my Xboard revy was not keepin up.... did runaway for the whole hopper... only 3 times did the trigger not bounce on a misfire and i quickly got it going again.... after that i needed to pick my jaw up off the ground =)


    well like i said i'll be playin tonight for team night... i'm pretty sure that they wont mind if i leave it set like it is now (ie runaway if i try for it) if not oh well i can adjust.... i do agree with WillWood.... i spent a couple of min thinking i had lost the black part... but then like will i realized it was white (yes this is nit picking.. but build a foolproof product and the world builds better idiots)

    now time to get ready for my play tonight.... i'll post another report when i get back
    Virus, King of the Basement Trollz has spoken

  4. #34

    Thumbs up wow

    first impressions after shooting [school girl giggle] hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe [/school girl giggle]

    time to install: dummy directions bout 2 min

    gun: Old school RT with Z grip and PMI Preset at about 900psi by the 2 guages on the gun

    hopper: both a rickochet AK and a VL200 (yeah, ol vl200 no motoloader here )

    got it setup, was shooting way hot after I got it shooting, changed out to the lower spring and brought myself down to 280 again. fired some shots at 350 and broke two in the barrel and chopped one after trying hard, turned it down and zero and zero

    okay, i bet two guys at my local shop $5 each 2:1 odds that neither me, nor either of them could get my RT to chop. I have lunch money for tomorrow now

    ran about 900 rounds of the crappiest paint we could find through this gun, 0bounce from 4 feet marbs, first gen 2 year old advantage PMI paint, new really brittle Worr paint and some real crap kickin.

    after I was at 280 fps 0 chops, 0 breaks no matter how fast we ran, we actually turned the power feed plug sideways to try to get it to chop. couldnt...

    We also tried to short stroke the gun but no such luck, it just wouldnt no matter how hard we tried... added side benefit? i dont know....

    all in all, i sold 4 level 10s today... almost rented my RT to a guy for his tourny saturday for 50, but he didnt have cash and i know him too well to take a check


    THANK YOU AGD AND CREW
    -------------
    Level 10 68 Automag classic with j&j 10" edge kit, macroline, inteliframe, polished warp left body, dye raptor cradle, and 68 4500 Air America Raptor Rex with slide check quick disconnect warp and Richochet AK

  5. #35
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    Oct 2000
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    easthampton, MA 01027
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    ok as i said in my last post here are my results....

    paint pmi advantage shell... 2-4 bounce.. also a little dimpled but not much

    my miniRT shooting 268-273fps, 14" jnj ceramic, Zgrip 5.6k flatline with an output of 1k

    left my squeegee in my bag and played.... 0 chops 0 breaks down barrel.... only thing is i may actually have to change my 9v in my X-revy i had a bunch of blank shots during some of my longer strings (greater then 10 shots).... also i need to adjust my warp.. one game it kept spinning... fixed that went too far found the happy med and came to the conclusion it was the hopper not keeping up.... but as i said not chops... most of the guyz there were very impressed... esp after i did the straight shot demo down the barrel.... i think i need to move LvX retro over to my micro to do teh ball on tape demo... anyhow i couldn't be happier great job AGD...

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    "The SC" (South Carolina)
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    Ok quick report as its late...

    EMAG with Flatline at 800 psi input.

    Got mine runing in an hour...spent some time trying to find out from members here if they also had a white backing washer. A lot them did. Its the only washer in the kit that is not metal so that is the right one to use as the backing washer. and its flat.

    After that point the only thing I ran into was to up the size of the carrer one size tighter (gonna have to look but it was snugger than what i first though was snug) and had to veloctiy one time or so. I had started out using the cut spring and changed to the stock old spring and then two spacers. Seem working fine.

    My main problem was a sticky macro fitting and a retention of 300 psi in the line. But those only slowed me down a bit. And of course trying to confirm the Backing washer change. Also my not reading the quick start early enough and noticing the use of the stock spring for first set up.

    I have not put paint though it nor stuck any appendages in there! I did put a handle from an old tooth brush in there (one i use to clean parts with) and it stops it ona dime.

    A couple of tips:

    A good O Ring pick comes on real handy to retrieve the carriers when trying on the bolt and in the PT. and for changing out the oring into the carriers. You need one anyway so go get one at your local autoparts store.

    Plenty of air. SCUBA got a work out. was only getting about 2K fills. But did like four of them.

    Do not worry about the white flat washer its the backing washer.

    Start with the fast start instructions and it will be close.

    make sure the carrier you chose it plenty snug not just snug. Two of them may actually work for you.

    Get a degas system (degas slide check, proconnect etc) on there if you are hard lined (SS or Macro no QC) as the residual pressures in the marker are going to be two to three and even four times higher than before.



    Conclusion:

    I will have to update this with paint and break in. I got some real old Nelson and a crono hope to do that tomorow.

    Official cphilip Proclamation:

    This sucker works!!!!!

    Added on edit after setting up on RT Pro and crono/paint results

    Same carrier used in the emag set up of course. The 1.0 and two shims. First with stock spring then up to the middle (cut) spring. And eventuauly tried the longest. Was getting an occasional bolt stick with that longest one and the velocity was way close to the venting point. In fact would vent a little on pressure up. So I decided to go back down to the middle spring and set it up there. Over the Crono I got nice set up around 280 or so with some old Nelson Splat that was hanging around for the last five or six months. Some of this stuff was breaking first drop from about 3 feet. I turned the revy off and after the crono set went crazy on the thing trying to missfeed. I did hear it missfeed four times (stop on a ball and hiss) but no breaks in the PF nor down the barrel. I think I am going to settle in on this set up. Middle spring i.e. the moderate set up but still not too hard on the finger!

    This sucker still works!!!! Can't wait to get the emag reset up.
    Last edited by cphilip; 07-07-2002 at 01:18 PM.


    AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

    cphilip.com

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
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    496
    Yo, yo, yo! level 10 has arrived...

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
    I read through the long procedure, and began the process. To get the gun to a working state, I would say that it took about 20 minutes. However, this is only PRELIMINARY. It didn't chop under normal circumstances, and appeared to fire consistantly, but I wish to tweak it a little more as there were a few mis-cycles, and the force is not as low as it might be if I altered the setup. More as it comes along...
    Current setup is small spring, 1.5 carrier, and two shims.

    -The type of gun you're using it on
    Automag, CF17059. This marker is close to 9 years old.

    -Efficiency
    So far, I can't say. I will edit this part later.

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
    1 break after the bolt was cycled thrice on one round, which was held tightly in place with a finger.
    Normal shooting exhibited no breaking through 300 rounds. Care was taken to force misfeeds by underloading a conventional hopper and angling the marker.
    All sorts or OLD paint. 0 bounces at 6 feet, 1 to two at 3. Most had a high propensity to break at the seams.

    -Any problems you encountered
    As mentioned, the carriers can be difficult to remove.
    The bolt still moves with a bit of force. I think that it is probably average for the initial setup of this mod. I must note that I was able to get the bolt force reduced beyond the point that it is at now, but it required the velocity to be adjusted just to the fringe of the maximal setting, which resulted in venting. I am going to try to alter spring and carrier combos to maximize the benefits. Perhaps breaking in the o-ring better will help.
    Also, I may add another shim as it seems the bolt is not venting sufficiently at times.

    -Other general comments
    The trigger pull is noticeably heavier than before. I think this is due in part to the need to have the velocity adjusted to such a high level. Also, I suspect that lip of the bolt may be exerting a bit more friction upon the sear.
    Also, for some odd reason, short-stroking seems to have increased. I think this may be due in part to the tightness from the setup and the use of the smaller spring, which may by impairing the cycle. I will update on this once I tweak and break in the system fully.
    Last edited by rx2; 07-04-2002 at 12:48 PM.
    "My Jell-O is dying in the audience..."
    Merrill Howard Kalin

  8. #38
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    Guys, using my scientific finger testing method I have tried the different bolt springs . I found the longest one results in significantly less bolt force (and thus chances of chopping).

    I suggest if you can get the right velocity with the longest spring that you do. Resort down to the smaller and original springs if you can't get the right velocity with the longer one.

    I also found that if you get a slight leak down the barrel which stops when you apply a tiny pressure to the trigger that you have too many shims in. Try taking one out and see if that works. My gun is now running without any shims and still resets perfectly if it stops on a ball. Adding shims does not stop leaks! It helps the resetting of the bolt due to where the air release hole is. Removing shims can stop slight leaks caused by where the release hole is in relation to the o-ring.

    That's all for now, getting ready to go to Toulouse Keep your eyes on www.warpig.com for my report and possibly the first ever pictures of a C&C in tournament play...

    manike

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
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    In my own little world
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    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    An hour and half all together because at first I forgot to play with the velocity and kept getting stumped on why it would leak ornot work at all, etc... Once i reread and printed out the instructions it probably only took about 10 min. to put it together...
    -The type of gun you're using it on
    Warp feed, left feed minimag, 68 c.i. 3k AGD flatline tank, Retrovalve
    -Efficiency
    Not noticeable, but for once my valve went into runaway while w/o level 10 it never did
    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
    0 breaks mixture of new diablo seconds and 8 MONTH old Team Colors (only ~250 rounds all together)
    -Any problems you encountered
    Didnt play with velocity settings during the "leak" testing steps, made a world of difference when I did
    -Other general comments
    Tom Kaye is a genuis just for adding a lil O-ring here and a little brass doo hickey there to make it not chop.
    I took off the warp feed and used a hopper AND turned it off. It makes nifty hissing sound when it pinches
    Oh yeah almost forgot, input pressure up at 1150 as always

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
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    496
    U P D A T E

    Having run several hundred rounds through the marker, I have found what appears to be an ideal setup for my particular assembly.
    I am using the 1.5 carrier, the "funny" spring, and three shims. It has been tested in conjunction for perhaps 1k shots with both CO2 and HPA at 875psi.
    I am able to get the velocity I need without venting, and the bolt force is sufficiently low that even the most brittle paint, that I would encounter in real conditions, will not split or crack (0 bounce@4 ft.). Also, the addition of the extra shim seems to have alleviated the problem with bolt stick.

    I MAY try to see if I can lighten the force further, although it would not really be needed at this point.

    ALSO, for those of you whom misplace picks too often to have one when it is needed, the carrier may be easily removed by a paper-clip with a bent tip. Just get a few clips, bend the tips to a 90 degree angle, and keep them with your kit.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Woodbury, MN
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    1,218

    Thumbs up

    Got my kits last night, installed..... still trying to recover from the shock...

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

    Setup 2 RT's and 1 Emag, took my time with the first install (1 hour on my son's RT), the remaining 2 only took 20 mins each to setup and fine tune.

    My bro's RT - Carrier #1.5, 3 shims, middle spring, 750 psi input.
    My son's RT - Carrier #1, 3 shims, middle spring, 750 psi input
    My Emag - Carrier #1.5, 3 shims, middle spring, 750 psi input.

    -The type of gun you're using it on

    My bro's High Rise RT (RT00597), my son's LPF RT (RT04631), and my EMag (EM00570)

    -Efficiency

    No idea just yet, won't know till I get my scuba tanks refilled tomorrow, only getting 1500 psi fills right now, not enough for a decent guess. I can normally shoot 700-800 from my Armagedon 68/4500 @3k psi, I also normally top off between games, never know when you just need to hammer.

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

    Fired 500 rounds of old RPS green marbs through each, egg shaped, dimpled... zero chops on all three. 2 broken down the barrel (Smart Parts AA) on my son's RT, and 3 down the barrel (Old Smart Parts AA Barrel) on my bro's RT. Swapping out the ported tight bore barrels for stock Mag barrels resulted in zero breaks down the barrels. I see this as two possible issues, FPS too high and/or the ancient swollen paint, this case was set aside 9 months ago for being out of round. The stock barrels are much more forgiving in bore diameter then the other barrels. No chrono at the house so I'm only guessing as to what the FPS is currently at, it seems a bit high just eye balling it, will verify this weekend at the field.

    -Any problems you encountered

    Zero problems.

    I had plenty of warning from previous posts about the white base o-ring, so was expecting to see it in the kit.

    -Other general comments

    Tom's quick start instructions are perfect for getting the kit installed and working in short order. Print and read through both before starting. Quick start is just that, quick and dirty. For fine tuning you need to read the long version.

    Seeing the bolt stop in the video is one thing, seeing it do it for real will make a convert out of any non believer in short order. Amazing work Tom, simply amazing. My bro has been contemplating selling his RT as it and my son's RT have both been very problematic with paint breakage, they'll usually bust 1 in 20 rapid fire, a chamber break every time. It was very refreshing to hear the bolt coughing as it pinched the balls and having nothing break in the chamber. My bro is very excited as his RT now has a completely new lease on life. 3 extremely satisfied customers...

    -Evil Bob

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Ont Canada
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    71
    How long to install? About 40m. #2 carrer, 2 shims, middle spring, 800 psi.
    Type of marker. Micro Emag.
    Efficency Not much difference.
    chops or Breaks? Went to Wallmart and bought 200 rounds of brass eagle that had to be a year old. Opened and seen a slight bit of paint. this stuff would break in two just dropping it from my hip and no bounce. 0 chops even tried the tape trick. broke one ball down the barrel ( this might have been the one that was leaking in the contaner).
    problems. Had installed the 1.5 carrer and the marker would fire in E mode but was all locked up in mechanical mode.
    Comments This thing rocks!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #43
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    Oct 2000
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    easthampton, MA 01027
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    well i just found this interesting.....

    i just happened to look down at my floor today in my room and low and behold i found a foamie.... at first i thought it was one of the spares from the kit and didn't think anything of it....

    took my marker over to my firends house to show him what LvX would do for his RT... needless to say he was impressed but when i took out my vlave to show him the parts... i find my foamie was missing... i just looked at the on i found on my floor just now and it looks like there was glue on it at one time on one side...

    the only time my mag was not in my gear bag was when i first set it up..... which means the foamie was not in the bolt the whole time though out the tests i did in my previous posts.... and i was using 2-4 bounce paint for it all and didn't even know it was missing.... this now has left me with no reservations about the LvX what so ever... esp seein the only time a squeegee was in my barrel was to show the pinchin action of the bolt at thte field....

    now i just need to bring home some superglue from work (indust grade for plastic to metal bonding)

    i'm just loving this more and more... now TK about those I-Zgrips (nudge nudge wink wink)

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    "The SC" (South Carolina)
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    My Foamie went bye bye too. have no idea when or where. Have not shot paint and maybe a hundred dry pulls and its missing.

    On other issue though that I have noticed and maybe needs some attention:

    Pressure retention when degassing is much higher. And presents a little bit of a problem. I am seeing like 250 - 300 psi still in the line when the system has degassed to a point that it will not shoot. I totally over looked this during install but it persists and was present then as I think back. I originaly thought it was a sticky Macro fitting but now realize It was under that much pressure. Now this is going to be a problem I think we are going to need to work on. Because in further demo last night I chopped my on off pin removing the valve and shot the on off assembly out. Breaking the on off pin!

    We think this retention of gas is a by product of design here and can be a problem and require some sort of device like a slide check in the system to allow total degassing. Remember, I am not talking about that little hiss that you get most times but a big one 300 psi is way too much to start taking things apart. During install I was having to use and small box wrench to bleed the macro out. I had thought that was due to set up errors but it presisted even when the lvl 10 was working properly.

    So I think its a part of the trade off here then and would like to know what others are seeing. Screw in tank guys will not see this. Quick connect guys are getting a big hiss I bet. Hard line set up guys with macro or SS line will see this i think.

    I need for those of you with closed systems and adjustable tanks that have LP side guages to notice for me what pressures you see when degassed.

    Added later on edit: I moved the lvl 10 over to the RT Pro. Since I cannot use the emag due to that broken On/off pin I figures WHY NOT! Easy thing to do as I had already disccoverd my correct carrier for this bolt right? So I just moved it right over as it was. Stock spring, two shims ect. And with a bit of upping the input I got it running quick in like five minutes.

    But on degassing still showing retention of 200 psi in this one.
    Last edited by cphilip; 07-05-2002 at 12:12 PM.

  15. #45
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    Mods..Does this topic fit into this thread or should there be a post setup thread? I thought this thread was for initial setup and testing notes. Either way here it is..

    Well I have not lost my foamie, yet. But I have experienced the same degassing problems. There is always 300 - 375 psi left in the line after turning off the air. This is due to the heavier spring. Just not quite enough pressure to get the bolt to move. Setups using a shorter spring might not have this problem at all or may just get an extra shot off, reducing the inline pressure a bit more. The trigger still has tension, and if you pull it enough it will reduce the pressure a bit (blow-by somewhere I guess). Removing the quick disconnect while under pressure has mangled the male fittings edges. On my marker with a flatline 3000 I have resorted to backing off the reg and letting it bleed the pressure off. It requires resetting the output pressure but it is easier on the fittings.

    Well we will leave this and a redirect to a thread I started on this issue - cphilip

    For degassing issue Go here:
    http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41874
    Last edited by cphilip; 07-05-2002 at 12:32 PM.

    AGD Pride Emag With 4.0 For Sale Here
    03 Vision Shocker #00014 BLUE
    "Personally all I want is a stripper and a corn dog" by RevBrown

  16. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    caught in a mosh
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    Well, kit arrived wed, played a little w/it on thursday night, started my installation today. How long; about 1/2 hr, once I figured out what I need to do. Set it up on my stock emag. Used the 1.5 carrier, no shims, and the middle (cut) spring. havent had a chance to chrony it yet, or shoot paint, will get to that this weekend.
    As a side note, I too still have pressure in the line. I screwed up one of my connectors getting in off, and had to install another one. I dont really think that there is anything you can do to correct it boltwise, but, like Cphilip said, maybe add a slide valve or something. If I wiggle mine around, I bleed of enough air to safely disengage it.
    I will post the firing test later. Cant do it today, no where to go and fire it.

    EDIT: Just added a slide check valve onto my steel line. Several other ppl here had too much pressure in the lines to safely disconnect the air when changing out carriers. Anoyone reading this that hasnt installed theirs yet, check out cphilips thread on the pressure in the lines.
    Last edited by oldsoldier; 07-05-2002 at 04:22 PM.
    X-mag #10. Nuff said.

    my feedback

  17. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
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    4,956
    With respect to the left over pressure issue, ALL guns can have some sort of quick disconnect inbetween the tank and gun to bleed the residual pressure.

    Macro and microline guys can take a straight fitting, screw that into a female QD fitting, and then screw a 90 degree elbow for SS hose into the valve or output of the tank, screw the male end of the QD into that and you now have a quick disconnect for Macro/Microline.

    It's even easier to put one on SS hose.

  18. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Clemson, SC
    Posts
    925
    Originally posted by BlackVCG
    With respect to the left over pressure issue, ALL guns can have some sort of quick disconnect inbetween the tank and gun to bleed the residual pressure.

    Macro and microline guys can take a straight fitting, screw that into a female QD fitting, and then screw a 90 degree elbow for SS hose into the valve or output of the tank, screw the male end of the QD into that and you now have a quick disconnect for Macro/Microline.

    It's even easier to put one on SS hose.
    You are certainly right, but I think the point is a marker that previously had very little residual pressure might suddenly have too much. We don't know if that is an effect of the L10 design or something we're doing wrong or what. If it IS an effect of the L10, then you might want to consider RECOMMENDING a bleed valve of some sort. The amount of pressure left is nowhere near what is normal for a mag - and the first time (during L10 setup) it is potentially damaging or dangerous if you aren't expecting it.

    FatMan

  19. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    "The SC" (South Carolina)
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    Yes Fatman! That is truely the point. It's a new situation and frequent degasing is nesiscary to install lvl 10 and many may not expect it nor be prepared for it. Prior to this on all my mags a simple macro fitting was sufficent for degasing and now its not. Heads up!

  20. #50
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    USA
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    719
    It took me around 40 minutes to install my Lvl 10. I presently use the No. 2 carrier, no shims and my original bolt spring on a E-mag (converted RT Pro).

    It took a long while because it wouldn't fire the first time, at which point I completely disassembled the lvl 10 and found the shims had been mangled. It is my recomendation that the shims be made to the inner diameter of the power tube to prevent the shims from accidentally slipping during the installation procedure. After 8 minutes of gently coaxing my mangled shims out of the power tube, I decided to go shim-less, which ended up working very well.

    I have only tested it out on objects inserted into the breach, as I will be proceeding to the paintball store tomorrow, so me and my freinds can test out the modification, I will edit my post then.
    Last edited by DarkPhoenix; 07-06-2002 at 01:37 AM.

    "The BEAST"
    "No-Rise" E-mag
    Level 10 Bolt
    AGD Flatline 91cu in/4500psi
    Black HALO B

    "Red Heatseeker"
    Red to Clear Fade Freak Factory Impulse
    68/4500psi Max-Flo
    Red HALO B

  21. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    rowdys world: its a scary place
    Posts
    399
    10 mins. to install
    type of gun: 68 minimag

    only problem i had installin it was that i couldn't rapid fire the gun. After raiseing the imput pressure it worked fine.


    I had several peolpe put their finger in front of the bolt and were shocked at the result. there not even a cocker in this world that is as gental on paint. with my z-grip i decied to wait on an rt valve till i get a new warp its just not nessary. Thank you airgun.




  22. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Thompson, Ct
    Posts
    1,935

    Cool LVL 10, MeLikes!

    -How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
    About an hour...

    -Long Silver Mainspring
    -Carrier w/2 lines (.308"?)
    -2 Shims

    Basically the "default" set-up

    I had to turn up the velocity adjuster about 3/4 of a turn to get the gun to stop leaking and shoot at 280fps. I turnrd 'er up to 295ish and fired away!

    -The type of gun you're using it on
    E-Mag, set at 16 bps (H/L mainbody), stock barrel w/new design plastic nubbins. 68/4500 Flatline set @1000psi output pressure and a HALO loader.

    -Efficiency
    Dunno yet, and I don't really care, cause I'm not breaking ANT paint!

    -Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
    I shot a bag of old BigBall I had for 3 months. No breaks. I bought a case of Viper Venom yellow, 500 shots, no breaks. I went to a local PB store, and bought 2 bags of "discount" paint (old stuff, brittle stuff that the owner just wants to get rid of) 1 bag of 32* blue/silver...no breaks, 1 bag 32* brown (cleveland?)...ONE break, in the barrel, about a third of the way down.

    The paint was fired by me & my Son, pretty much as fast as we can pull the trigger. E-Mag is set on 16bps. Hopper was fired 'till empty over and over. I couldn't chop a ball!

    As a control, my son shot about 50 or so rounds of each paint through his Gen-X 3 'Cocker, with no breaks.

    I'm stoked!


    -Any problems you encountered
    I had a bit of leaking at first, the power tube "O" ring in the carrier just needed breaking in. A couple hundred dry-fires took care of it. I may need to drop the carrier down 1 step as the "O" ring further wears. The foamie fell off the bolt during the first few dry-fires. I re-glued it with a 2 part epoxy.

    -Other general comments
    So far, so good. About 1800 rounds fired, ONE barrel break. Accuracy with the BigBall and Viper Venom were outstanding! Gotta get LVL 10 for my classic mag now!

    EDIT: and about residual air pressure in the lines, I use a Q/D, mounted near the Flatline's reg, to speed up field stripping & gun maintainence. Just release it, and the air escapes safely. It's a good idea, LVL 10 or not.

    Russ
    Last edited by Russ; 07-06-2002 at 08:09 PM.

  23. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Don't make me pull over!!
    Posts
    5,776
    HOORAY

    It took exactly 29:47 to fully install (stopwatch), and test fire. I used the new standard size bolt spring, two shims, and the "one stripe" carrier. All parts simply dropped in with no resistance. The carrier was given a nudge into the power tube with the cap of the KC Trouble Free oil bottle, it's a perfect fit as a plunger. The foamie left the building on the very first shot, but I foresee no trouble there.

    It has been installed in Big Red. I chose to use the Minimag and Co2 to give it a fair shot. My Emag isn't having enough troubles to really have a true test of the system. I used up a new fill in the 16oz just playing with it, by shooting a pencil through a soda can (pencil fully in barrel, hit by bolt at end of travel so as to get the full speed and air blast), then pressing the soda can against the point of the pencil ,eraser against the bolt...yup, psssst is all I got! I even did the finger trick, heck, who of you haven't yet?

    I had to increase the velocity to get it to fire off the new spring, but do not know the true speed yet. I'm playing tomorrow, so I will edit this post then.

    *EDIT* Ok, it's tomorrow and I'm back from playing.

    With the 8:30AM temperature 85+F, I chronoed at: 285-285-289-290-285-287, which for Co2 is superb! I did my best to break/chop/misfeed/crap on/totally screw up the gun................didn't happen at all/not once/what-so-ever.

    Turned off the Revvy, shot it sideways, upside down, fast as possible. No chops. I made no changes to the internals, although I may put in one more spacer for S&G.

    So, I decided to do the most evil of deeds.....I raised the 20oz upside down and above the gun.

    You could watch the slinky and expando frost up, then the AIR valve...then I started shooting until the snow was flying, and the gun absolutely locked up and was leaking hard out the barrel. Ice is now flaking off tank, slinky, AIR valve, and body tube.

    The on/off was frozen open, and the bolt was stuck forward, so when the valve thawed slightly, the remaining high pressure in the slinky rushed out in a pretty cloud of snow and smoke, just like a fire extiguisher, that made everyone back off a little with a look of fright! Of course, this mad rush of Co2 liquid out the bolt and barrel totally froze the LX componants AND the ball that was still in the chamber. Waiting another 3.5 minutes resulted in the bolt spring finally pushing the bolt back to sear lock.

    Immediately after hearing the "click" of the sear, I got back on the trigger and started wailing away. Despite the great blizzard that erupted from the barrel, LX kept on shooting without any chops or stops.

    I let anyone who wanted to, shoot the gun AND stick their finger in the breech! The universal response from 'Mag owners was......"I'm DEFINATELY gonna get me one of THOSE!" I can guarantee the first week sale of ten LX's at the local Pball shop.

    BTW: OOOOOOOUUUUUUCH! I got hit way too often today
    <center></center>

  24. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Woodbury, MN
    Posts
    1,218

    Thumbs up

    Update.....

    Chronoed up at the field, all three markers (1 old HR RT, 1 newer RT, and 1 EMag) are in the 320+ from the initial setup, most likely the reason why I broke paint during the initial setup as well as it was plain ugly paint to begin with (egg shaped, dimpled, swollen, etc.)

    Put 1,000 rounds (bought 2 cases of fresh RPS Marbs) through each of the Mags I added the LVL 10 kit to before lunch. Field has us chrono under 270, all three dialed right in at 265-269 without much effort. Found that if I dialed below 260, I'd get alot of coughing and bolt stick. Seriously thinking about upping the input from 750 to 800+ to compensate. Field conditions are pretty dusty, and one of the RPS bags in the second case had really gritty balls in it, some fine powder was on the surface of the paintballs, never seen this before. Ran into bolt stick problems with my EMag (input at 750) after putting 700+ rounds through it (including that bag of dirty RPS paint). Cured the problem by putting in a few drops of KC Trouble Free into the quick disconnect after each game. If I didn't oil up, I'd run into bolt stick the next game. It was definitely worth taking the time to do it after each game. Going to send a nasty gram to RPS about dirty balls... someone in their QC dept needs to be slapped around...

    0 breaks/ 0 chops... flawless.

    After lunch I put away the RT's and put the remaining 1,000 through my EMag.

    0 breaks/0 chops... flawless.

    Gas Efficiency...

    Found I could get 750-800 easily on a single 3k fill in my Armagedon 68/4500 with LVL 10, Without LVL 10 I used to get close to 900... so there is a marginal loss, along the lines of 15%. If I don't chop paint as a result, so be it. If it becomes an issue, I'll get that mega booster I've been drooling over.

    Best quotes of the day...

    "What the HELL is that??!!" a player exclaimed as he pointed at my Emag/Warp/HALO combo...

    Showed LVL 10 to everyone who would listen, including the field owner who is a die hard Mag convert, his words were "it's about damn time!"

    "That is so damn cool! Man, I gotta get me one of those. I want your's, how much you want for it?" he says as he's digging out his wallet.

    "I was torn between getting an Angel and an EMag" a player said looking down at his shiny new Angel, after I showed him how LVL 10 works he said "it appears I have chosen poorly."

    -Evil Bob
    Last edited by Evil Bob; 07-06-2002 at 08:08 PM.

  25. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,961
    EB,

    You are too close to the edge with your setup. Rasing the input pressure will not help the bolt stick. You need to go down to the next size mainspring to cure the problem.

    On the other had you probably have it setup to be the most forgiving that it can get. The way you have it now would be a pro tourney setup but you do have to oil it often.

    AGD

  26. #56
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    719
    UPDATE! After wearing the o-ring in, I have switched to the 1.5 carrier and added 1 shim, two shims were causing a steady leak and after fishing out another mangled shim (this makes three)I have had absolutely no other problems since. My set-up still has the original bolt spring that came with my RT Pro, before I had it converted to an E-mag.

    My only recomendation is that the shims need to be made to either the inner diameter of the power tube or a touch smaller, to facilitate ease of removal. I have severely mangled 3 shims despite my careful following of the install instructions, not a major problem just a very minor inconvenience. Now all I have to do is buy 3 more shims for my kit...

    PS Thanks Tom and everyone from AGD, who helped in the creation and manufacture of this incredible product.

  27. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sedona, AZ
    Posts
    45

    Level 10 and ACE

    Tom Kaye is the man! I received my SFL last week Friday on the 28th. Couldn't play with it because they shut us down, because of the extreme fire danger in the forests, in our part of Arizona and there is no private fields where we live. So today, the 6th we travelled to play on a private field and played against some other speedball teams and lit them up with the new SFL. The Level 10 and the ACE were amazing, no breaks, no burps, no smiles from the other team. Everybody wants one. The SFL with the Level 10 and the ACE in it showed up Angels and Cockers all day. I put 1200 rounds of Marbalizer through it. There was one drop in velocity at the chrono station. It dropped from 272 to 227 from one shot to the next and never did it again after that. I am very pleased with the new gun and its performance.

  28. #58
    hey guys i am new to the forum but i order a beta level ten and that was like 2 weeks ago and it still isn't here is there a large supply and demand or what.

  29. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    caught in a mosh
    Posts
    2,459

    Thumbs up my update

    Well, went to the field for official testing today. First, I switched springs, running the short spring in my emag. No problems at all. Chrony'd a little high for my field...297. Had to crank it way down to get under 25. Finally settled on 277. Good enough.
    I put almost a whole cae through it, shooting Worrpaint. One barrel break-thats it. It did actually hiss twice, I was firing hybrid mode, and the first time I heard it, I thought it sounded pretty cool. Well, no breaks either time it pinched. Great product, and, my only suggestion when it is officially released, is like everone else; make sure they know the pressure in the lines are higher than normal when you degas. Other than that, I love this!
    Oh, one other thing; I was running the original superbolt in this, and didnt notice either a recoil or weight difference at all.

  30. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Thompson, Ct
    Posts
    1,935

    Cool Update #1

    I put 500 Viper Venom (orange) balls through the gun today. I TRIED to chop a ball. Held the gun sideways, no chop, used the VL200 (plain 'ol hopper) shooting in hybrid, shooting as fast as possible, No Chops. No Breaks, period!

    The gun just goes "pftt" when there is ball caught half-way in the chamber. The bolt re-set EVERY time!

    I did loose another foamie, and did most of (?) the shooting today WITHOUT a foamie on the bolt!

    once again...

    #2 carrier
    long silver spring
    2 shims
    1000psi input pressure

    Yes, I am excited about LVL10

    Russ

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