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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #1261
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sheffield, UK
    Posts
    3

    Just a quick thought for you folks..

    Well more likely to be for athomas as he seems to be pretty active on the tech forum.

    I've got an X-mag with usual lvl10 kit and abbadon air system @ 4.5k

    Taking my mag out, attaching the bottle and turning the reg up to 800 psi I felt the usual click as the trigger engages due to the gas. No problem. However with everything set as normal one single trigger pull would make the valve cycle some 4 or 5 times. If it turned down the input pressure then the bolt would stick open and the valve would sit there happily leaking air.

    Can't be too hard to fix I thought, so armed with the relevant exploded pictures of all the parts I took the bolt/valve assembly apart inspected everything for wear and with a little lube popped it all back together. Now in the course of this I noticed that there were no shims behind the carrier and in front of the delrin backing o-ring.

    Anyway I popped it all back together and it works fine, cycling once per trigger pull. Now my query is exactly how did I fix this? I had previously lubed everything that requires it and shot some oil drops through the valve so the re-lubing shouldn't have done anything new.
    My worry is that at some random point, possibly mid-game, it will start thumping out more than one ball per trigger pull or just fire slowly due to the lvl10 venting to prevent balls chopping.

    Does the lack of shims make any difference to the setup? I don't believe it should, if it works with none, then I thought that was fine.


    Hmmm, I hope this makes sense....all help/thoughts/comments gratefullt recieved.

    Chimp

  2. #1262
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by chairChimp
    ... I noticed that there were no shims behind the carrier and in front of the delrin backing o-ring.....

    Does the lack of shims make any difference to the setup? I don't believe it should, if it works with none, then I thought that was fine.
    No, the shims do not do anything except change how far the bolt has to go before it can vent air and return. Many people don't use any shims at all. If you did use shims, they would go in front of the carrier not between the carrier and the backing washer.

    It is quite possible that your on-off o-ring was pushed out of place or distorted due to sticking possibly caused by a piece of dirt. The result was air prematurely getting to the chamber before the sear was fully set. The higher input pressure allowed fast enough recharge to fire the marker. Once you reduced the input pressure, the recharge was not fast enough to charge the front chamber fro firing , but did prevent the bolt from resetting. By cleaning the valve, you effectively released any stuck o-rings and cleaned any dirt out of the system.

    Dirt is one of the main causes of malfunctions in all mags. It doesn't take much so you should give your mag a good cleaning every once in a while jsut to make sure its operational when you need it.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  3. #1263
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    77

    little leak

    I just got another mag (Automag classic) a few days ago and am having a problem with it. It leaks quitly out of the barrel even when I use a very tight carrier. I think it may have something to do with the valve alignement because it gets smaller when I unscrew the field strip screw a bit, but it doesn't get rid of it. It gets worse when I overtighten it. If I push on the bolt the leaking gets louder too. I tried a different o-ring with the same results. I can screw the reg on a bit tighter so that the engraving of 68Automag don't quite line up, should it line up perfectly or not? My micromag works fine even when screwed on this tight. I would try it but I'm out of air till sunday. Oh, and one more symptom.... if i put a bit of pressure against the trigger it stops leaking.

    current setup:
    carrier #2.5
    0 shims for troubleshooting leak
    middle (red) spring

  4. #1264
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    7,408
    Stoble:

    A leak that stops when you pull the trigger slightly indicates a shim issue. Since you are not using any shims, it is possible that the sear is worn a bit. This could explain all the problems you are experiencing. So, ckeck the sear tip for wear.

    The engraving does not have to line up perfectly.

  5. #1265
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    77

    sear wear

    thanks athomas for the quick response. I looked at the sear and it looked fine to me, but when I used a sear off my functioning micromag and put it in my automag the leak stopped. So my question is, how do you tell if a sear is worn? I couldn't tell by looking at it. What am I supposed to look for?

  6. #1266
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    It doesn't take much wear to cause problems on the sear tip. They are hardened so they don't wear much which is good.

    If you look very carefully at the sear tip, you will notice the contact area where it holds the bolt. The full point of contact is about 1/8". If this contact area is a shiney silver and is slightly indented from the rest of the sear front, then it is worn. The indent may be so slight that you might not notice it at first.

  7. #1267
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    pickney michigan (hell survivors paintball feild)
    Posts
    274

    ok i need advice

    i'm installing a level 10 kit on a classic valve with a shocktec chamber----- i want to know which bumper to use the clear one or the blue one thankx pm me --- don't pollute the thread with banter thankx -- oldschool

  8. #1268
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    77

    chops

    I played on sunday and my lv.10 was chopping. The chrono limit is 300 (I chronoed at 290 to 295), so I used the middle spring b/c I usually use the small (gold) spring. After chronoing with the middle (red) spring I played and was chopping. I can't seem to make the lv.10 work at this velocity, I tried the longest (silver) spring and it still hit's my finger just as hard. Any ideas? Do I have to play at 265 fps just for lv.10 to work?

    my setup:
    #2 carrier, 2 shims and middle spring

  9. #1269
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by awilli234life
    i'm installing a level 10 kit on a classic valve with a shocktec chamber----- i want to know which bumper to use the clear one or the blue one thankx pm me --- don't pollute the thread with banter thankx -- oldschool
    Use the blue bumper for classic valves.

  10. #1270
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    227
    if u are actually chopping... make sure that u have the carrier in, in the right direction.... i did that without paying attention and it chopped ALL DAY and then i finnaly relized what had happened

  11. #1271
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Racine, Wisconsin...http://phantom234.proboards32.com/
    Posts
    155

    why wont it work?!

    my lvl 10 is makin the balls fall out of the barrel and the valve is coughing and sometimes takes a while to get the air flow into the valve please send me a private message of what is going on and how to fix it

  12. #1272
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarrysSon
    my lvl 10 is makin the balls fall out of the barrel and the valve is coughing and sometimes takes a while to get the air flow into the valve please send me a private message of what is going on and how to fix it
    What is your gun and valve setup? It could be as simple as having a carrier that is too tight.

  13. #1273
    hey. i m just installing my L10 bolt. when i put it al togther and gassed it up all it did was leak. even with the smallest carrier. the mallest one was to big. whatsss up??/ what should i do??

    sry if its already been answerd after page 2 i stoped looking.
    Last edited by cote_says; 05-12-2005 at 08:30 PM.

  14. #1274

    First shot drop off

    I just picked up a lvl 10 and played with it for the first time. A problem I seem to be having is I have to pull the trigger 4 or 5 times before my gun will shoot, and the first shot is pretty weak. I've also noticed that if I wait for a while in between shots, around a minuet, the first shot or two is pretty weak. I have no problems with rapid fire, or any thing else once I get my mag "warmed up". I can shoot the mag as fast as I can without chopping paint, and I have some pretty fast fingers. I was running around 270 fps that day. I have two shims and the largest carrier I can put on it without leaking. Any suggestion?

    gun set up:
    retro vlv
    intelli frame
    ule vert feed body
    lv 10
    68/4500 3A N2 tank, preset to 850 psi
    dye 03 stickies
    halo b
    14" tear drop freak

  15. #1275
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
    Posts
    7,408
    What bolt spring are you using? Did you set the carrier size without the shims installed?

    It is possible that the leak you experienced with the next larger carrier was due to the presence of the shims. Remove the shims when checking the carrier size.

    If the carrier is set up properly, you may be using a bolt spring that is too stiff for the bolt to cycle properly. Try a lighter bolt spring.

    Once the carrier o-ring is broken in, it will work more consistently under all conditions.

  16. #1276
    hey i have a quick queston. my lvl 10 has a leak and it is down the barrel. i've tried all the carriers with 2 shims and i have had no luck. although when i hold down the trigger it stops the leak. currently i am using the carrier with two shims and the carrier with 2 grooves. i've read a couple pages in this forum and couldnt find anyone with the same problem . please help!

  17. #1277
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    Remove the shims first. Use the largest carrier that doesn't leak. Once you get the proper carrier, you can add shims back into the powertube. The shims only determine how far the bolt must move forward before the air can vent out the small hole and allow the bolt to reset. Many people don't use any shims at all because the distance is so short anyway.

  18. #1278
    yeah i just took all the shims out so now it works. thx

  19. #1279

    Intermitent LVL 10

    I have a brand new AUTOMAG ULT Custom with an X valve and recently the gun has begun to shoot intermittently. A very small amount of air leaks through the bolt and the gun will generally shoot about 15 shots before it jams and sometimes when i push the front of the bolt the gun will recock but other times the gun will not recock unless I gas it up again. Any suggestions? Should I switch carriers sizes? Also, the gun is very well oiled and the velocity is up very high.

  20. #1280
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    You are experiencing a problem relating to a combination of the ULT and level 10. You possibly need a larger carrier size. Always make sure you are using the largest carrier that doesn't leak. Test this without any shims in the powertube. Once that is setup, adjust the ULT. Too many shims in the ULT can cause the bolt to stick even if the carrier is the proper size. Find the correct amount of ULT shims by trial and error. Put as many in as you need to operate consistently without bolt stick. This type of bolt stick can be checked by pushing the bolt back into place manually. If the gun recocks when you do this, remove a ULT shim. If you get bolt stick that cannot be reset by pushing the bolt back, then the on-off pin is sticking and you need to add a shim or two.

  21. #1281

    I can't seem to get the right combo

    Okay, I have been looking for the perfect combo of carrier and shims and spring for about one month now. I can't seem to get it just right. I seem to be alternating between two carriers. One carrier will hold air pressure for about five mins before a small leak begins. I then move to the next carrier down and I get a purge of air in the bolt about every other trigger pull. I have tried to lube this carrier as much as possible and still the problem continues. I have even gone as far as using the three o-rings to find the one that will either be a tiny bit tighter in the looser carrier to stop the leaking or a tiny bit looser in the tighter carrier to stop the mis-fire. I still can't get it to work. I think I need a carrier that is right in between the two. I am using two shims and the middle spring. If I use three shims it leaks. Any help would be great.

  22. #1282
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    7,408
    Try removing a shim and use the looser of the two carriers.

  23. #1283
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Posts
    109
    alrighty folks, I'm posting for my cousin (who can't seem to get a email verification for his own account) about a problem with his new ule custom.

    Problem:
    After tuning the lvl 10 with the proper carrier, he chrono's the marker and plays for about half a day or req ball. About 500-600 rounds later, his oring is breaking in and he gets a small leak down the barrel. During the SAME game, the small leak explodes into a gush of air that empties his tank pronto.
    Right now, we have tried 5 different orings, all in the smallest carrier (no shims) and the marker still leaks. We had the right spring (which shouldn't effect this). Can anyone get us on the right track with suggestions on this problem?

  24. #1284

    Unhappy someone please help

    setup:
    minimag with an emag valve +lvl10
    boo yaah elcd
    compressed air
    16 in armson riffled barrel

    lvl10 is set up with 1.5 carrie 2 shims and med. spring (red one)

    problem:
    was having air leek down the barrel with the #2 carrier so went to the 1.5. orings have been heavily oiled, now no leeks but gun will still not fire no matter what the velocity or springs. elcd fired great with stock emag on/off... but when lvl 10 was installed nothing. my only though is maybe it could be the on/off but i tried the stock emag one and the one supplied with the boo yaah frame. it sounds like the sear is hitting the on/off just not firing the valve. not sure if the ULT would help me out or not...willing to try any thoughs suggestions.

    please feel free to email me or PM me becasue this thread looks like its hard to find your response. ;-)

  25. #1285
    Okay,

    Once again I have a problem with my Lvl 10. I am about to just go back to my lvl 7 and just be done with it. I finally got it working great with the help of the peeps at AGD. I played with it for the second time today and after I got home, I broke the valve down to clean it. The top of the power tube tip, just below where the wrench unscrews it from the tube, was broke off. Now I can't get the tip out of the bolt. Even if I got a replacement tip from AGD, I would not even be able to install it. What do I do? Are there any warraties that come with this part. I have owned it for less than two months and have only played with it twice due to all of the other issues I have had trying to get it to work.
    Thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images

  26. #1286
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    7,408
    Quote Originally Posted by seanpeek
    Okay,

    The top of the power tube tip, just below where the wrench unscrews it from the tube, was broke off. Now I can't get the tip out of the bolt. Even if I got a replacement tip from AGD, I would not even be able to install it. What do I do? Are there any warraties that come with this part.
    How did it get stuck. The inside diameter of the bolt is larger than the outside diameter of the tip. Anyway, you should be able to stick a rod into the front end of the valve and gently tap it out the back.


    robr81: I think you were lucky getting the gun to fire with the stock on-off before. The level 10 uses a higher chamber pressure to achieve velocity. The higher chamber pressure will prevent the electronic frame from properly activating the on-off. The ULT should help your cause.


    j.storm: Check the black outer o-ring on the carrier. It may be broken or damaged. Also check for debris in the powertube. Is the carrier installed in the correct orientation front to back? Also check that the rail bushing is in place.

  27. #1287
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    How did it get stuck. The inside diameter of the bolt is larger than the outside diameter of the tip. Anyway, you should be able to stick a rod into the front end of the valve and gently tap it out the back.
    You would think that getting it out would be easy. I have no idea what is keeping it in there. I slides freely on the bolt until it gets close to the end, then it get lodged on something. I have tried pushing, pulling, tapping and jabbing, but it wount come off. The only way I see myself getting this working again is if AGD will replace it. Is it covered by a warranty?

  28. #1288
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas


    robr81: I think you were lucky getting the gun to fire with the stock on-off before. The level 10 uses a higher chamber pressure to achieve velocity. The higher chamber pressure will prevent the electronic frame from properly activating the on-off. The ULT should help your cause.

    thanks buddy ill give it a try. and will repost as soon as i got it figured out.

  29. #1289

    gas leaking down barrel all the time!!!!

    hi all, i've had my tac-one for a few months now, its been great right up till last weekend.

    i noticed a small leak of gas venting down the barrel, and if i hold my trigger back..the marker hissed and puffed non stop!!

    If i put a small amount of pressure on the trigger, it would not be as bad, but it was still there.So, i took out my valve(at the field mind you)and found that the bolt was not "being gripped" anymore, normally it was kinda held in place by ...suction it seemed..and that gripping feeling is no more!?!

    Now, last week i had to clean between games(didnt break paint, i got hit from the front), and i torn my marker down, cleaned it , but, i didnt have time to oil up all the internals(including the bolt!!!!!)and then put a couple of cases through it.

    I'm guessing this is a commen problem for the Level 10 set up(worn out o-rings) and am just facing it for the first time here, could someone who knows whats going on pls let me know why and whats happening to my sweeet Tac-one?and what i need to change to fix the leak.

    Ps. I did oil all the parts now...and the leak is still bad(losing about 2000 psi in 10 mins!!!!)

    anyone who can guide me he...pls chime in.
    Thanks all for your time
    Tom you still rule bud
    Louis

  30. #1290
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
    Posts
    7,408
    Quote Originally Posted by ODARKONE
    I'm guessing this is a commen problem for the Level 10 set up(worn out o-rings) and am just facing it for the first time here, could someone who knows whats going on pls let me know why and whats happening to my sweeet Tac-one?and what i need to change to fix the leak.
    The carrier o-ring is getting broken in. Go to the next tighter carrier. Also, the persistent leaking may be caused by too many shims.


    seanpeek: Your valve is covered by warrantee. AGD will drill a detent into the valve when you send it back to indicate a warrantee star has been used. It would be a shame to use a warrantee star for something that simple though. If you have to, buy just the level 10 bolt and powertube tip.

    Check the alignment of your bolt stem in the back of the bolt. Is the bolt stem loose or off center? Think of this as one of those logical puzzles. The object is to get the brass ring off the bolt stem. It went on, so it should come off. The brass part may have gotten bent when the bolt returned to the valve the first time the part broke. You may be able to get a pair of needlenose pliers inside the bolt from the back and starighten it.

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