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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #1411

    Level 10 runaway

    Hi all,
    I've been searching the forum and can't find an answer to this question.
    I recently picked up some emag lowers and swiched my ULE level 10/xvalve to them.

    Now the LX/XV won't stop cycling, I put it back into the ULE and same thing it runs away like a full auto..........

    Any ideas how I can fix this?

    Thanks.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. -James Morrow

    RAMF.NET

  2. #1412
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    Sounds like an on-off oring issue rather than a level 10 issue. Two main things cause full auto. The sear is worn and can't catch the bolt, or the on-off allows air into the front chamber before the sear catches the bolt. Since it does it in your ULE mag with a different sear, I suspect the problem lies with the on-off.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  3. #1413

    runaway......

    Well I put new orings in the on/off (3 total) and it's still doing it. When I gas it up it shoots one time without pulling the trigger......



    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    Sounds like an on-off oring issue rather than a level 10 issue. Two main things cause full auto. The sear is worn and can't catch the bolt, or the on-off allows air into the front chamber before the sear catches the bolt. Since it does it in your ULE mag with a different sear, I suspect the problem lies with the on-off.

  4. #1414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupis Fidelis
    Well I put new orings in the on/off (3 total) and it's still doing it. When I gas it up it shoots one time without pulling the trigger......
    What length of on-off pin are you using? You need a short .712" pin with the emag and a .750" pin with the ULE mag. It could be acombination of two things for you. The sear could be worn on the emag causing full auto. The pin could be too short causing excessive shots on the ULE.

  5. #1415

    runaway

    Yeah, I saw the sticky thread below and realized that I probably don't have the right pin or assembly for that matter. I ordered an emag assembly and pin today.

    Thanks for the help. I'll be sure to post here if I have further problems.


    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    What length of on-off pin are you using? You need a short .712" pin with the emag and a .750" pin with the ULE mag. It could be acombination of two things for you. The sear could be worn on the emag causing full auto. The pin could be too short causing excessive shots on the ULE.

  6. #1416

    Won't cycle.

    I installed a level 10 bolt this w/e in my classic mag & it won't cycle when I pull the trigger.
    At first the bolt would move forward about a third to half way across the feed hole in the breech then vent. After maybe ten shots it would simply not move when I pulled the trigger (no venting or anything).
    I tried installing the shortest spring I had on the bolt (an old one that is about 2-3 mm shorter than the shortest lvl 10 bolt spring) & still had the same problem.

    The marker cycled fine with the lvl 7 bolt & the sear was not touched during the lvl 10 install (I doubt it's the sear since it would probably not have half-cycle at the beginning if it was).
    I haven't installed a newer style reg piston yet but have tried screwing the velocity all the way in with not luck.

  7. #1417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surestick
    I installed a level 10 bolt this w/e in my classic mag & it won't cycle when I pull the trigger.
    At first the bolt would move forward about a third to half way across the feed hole in the breech then vent. After maybe ten shots it would simply not move when I pulled the trigger (no venting or anything).
    I tried installing the shortest spring I had on the bolt (an old one that is about 2-3 mm shorter than the shortest lvl 10 bolt spring) & still had the same problem.

    The marker cycled fine with the lvl 7 bolt & the sear was not touched during the lvl 10 install (I doubt it's the sear since it would probably not have half-cycle at the beginning if it was).
    I haven't installed a newer style reg piston yet but have tried screwing the velocity all the way in with not luck.
    If it doesn't vent out the back when you increase the velocity adjuster all the way in, then you probably don't need a new regulator piston assembly.

    Failure to cycle usually indicates a sticking problem somewhere. What type of barrel are you using? I assume it is a twist lock, since you are using a classic mag. Is the barrel properly secured and centered?. The level 10 bolt is a bit larger in diameter that the level 7, so there isn't as much tolerance for parts that don't fit perfectly in the breach area. If the barrel is a bit loose in the body, add a wrap or two of tape around the base of the barrel. This will prevent wobble and will help to keep the barrel centered.

  8. #1418
    No barrel while doing the install.
    I will try w/the new-style reg piston.

    Thanks.

    -Adrien

  9. #1419
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    Well, it obviously isn't a barrel problem then.

    Check the body washer that separates the back from the front inside the steel body. It may have burrs on the inside or maybe it is distorted somehow. Take a file and gently take some metal off the inside diameter of the washer. It will only take a couple of swipes with the file unless there is sever distortion. If it is bad, then make the hole round and just slightly larger than the tip of the bolt.

    If the hole is not the problem, then make sure the body is being pulled down to the rail when you tighten the screw holding the front of the grip frame. Make sure both the grip frame screw and the field strip screws are the proper length to allow the body and valve to be tightened properly.

    When in doubt, take the valve apart and clean it. A piece of dirt can cause havoc inside a mag valve.

  10. #1420

    Level 10 won't work

    Hi, I just got a level 10 for my RT Pro, I have tried every carrier size, with and without shims, along with the bigger stainless springs, not the red or the smallest one. I am using an RT Pro with a hyper frame and Retro Valve. The problem is that it is leaking like crazy down the barrel, in the fast assembly instructions, it says to turn the velocity up until it shoots, it wont do that, I have the velocity all the way up and continues to leak. Please solve my problem. I rely on you AGD!

  11. #1421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demp1404
    Hi, I just got a level 10 for my RT Pro, I have tried every carrier size, with and without shims, along with the bigger stainless springs, not the red or the smallest one. I am using an RT Pro with a hyper frame and Retro Valve. The problem is that it is leaking like crazy down the barrel, in the fast assembly instructions, it says to turn the velocity up until it shoots, it wont do that, I have the velocity all the way up and continues to leak. Please solve my problem. I rely on you AGD!
    Check the sear for wear.

    Does the hyper frame work with the RT Pro using a level 7 bolt?

  12. #1422
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    Check the sear for wear.

    Does the hyper frame work with the RT Pro using a level 7 bolt?
    Well the thing is that the sear had to be modified to use the hyperframe, well everyone has to do that with a hyper frame. The spring and hanging rod is gone for the electric. I dont have a level 7 to use, but I am using a ans phase two bolt. Thanks for the concern.

  13. #1423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demp1404
    Well the thing is that the sear had to be modified to use the hyperframe, well everyone has to do that with a hyper frame. The spring and hanging rod is gone for the electric. I dont have a level 7 to use, but I am using a ans phase two bolt. Thanks for the concern.
    The section of the sear tip where it catches the bolt can't be modified. Check it for wear. There never was a spring.

    The ANS bolt is a level 7 aftermarket bolt.

    One thing to check for is the presence of the rail bushing. If it is missing, it will won't hold the valve in the specific spot where it needs to be for consistent operation.

  14. #1424
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    The section of the sear tip where it catches the bolt can't be modified. Check it for wear. There never was a spring.

    The ANS bolt is a level 7 aftermarket bolt.

    One thing to check for is the presence of the rail bushing. If it is missing, it will won't hold the valve in the specific spot where it needs to be for consistent operation.
    Hey Can you send me a picture of the level 7 bolt, I can't seem to find one. What is the rail bushing because I dont see anything missing from the rail. I have only been an owner of an automag for about a month. Thanks for the help

  15. #1425
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    The rail bushing slides into the rail where the field strip screw tightens down the valve. It is located in the rail directly behind the back of the sear.

    http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fu...&categoryID=95

    An AGD level 7 bolt looks almost identical the ANS one you have except for the holes in the front.

    http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fu...&categoryID=18

  16. #1426
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    The rail bushing slides into the rail where the field strip screw tightens down the valve. It is located in the rail directly behind the back of the sear.

    http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fu...&categoryID=95

    An AGD level 7 bolt looks almost identical the ANS one you have except for the holes in the front.

    http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fu...&categoryID=18
    Is the level 7 bolt have the same foamies as the level 10 bolt? I believe it is that triangle shape foamie right? My cousin has a level 7 I believe, it has the same foamie as the level 10(if that's the level 7) It doesnt show the front of the bolt. My cousin can use the cheapest of paint out there without breaking. Im having so many problems with this bolt so I think I'm going to sell it and get that level 7 from AGD. They are practically the same thing, just the level 7 isnt as complicated. Thanks Hey does AGD still sell the Original Superbolt? That's the one with the huge foamie and the black lining.
    Last edited by Demp1404; 04-02-2006 at 10:55 PM. Reason: add-on

  17. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demp1404
    Is the level 7 bolt have the same foamies as the level 10 bolt? I believe it is that triangle shape foamie right? My cousin has a level 7 I believe, it has the same foamie as the level 10(if that's the level 7) It doesnt show the front of the bolt. My cousin can use the cheapest of paint out there without breaking. Im having so many problems with this bolt so I think I'm going to sell it and get that level 7 from AGD. They are practically the same thing, just the level 7 isnt as complicated. Thanks
    Level 7 bolts come in two forms, (1)foamy type and (2)hard nose. If you do decide to go with a level 7 bolt, you will need a powertube spacer kit or you will run into the same problems with the level 7 bolt.

    The level 7 and level 10 are far from the same. None of the bolts will chop paint if the gun feeds fast enough to prevent the bolt from hitting a ball before it is fully in the breach. However, if this does happen because of odd firing angles or a hopper that doesn't keep up, then any level 7 bolt will chop the paintball in half. The foamy will not prevent a chop. The design of the level 10 prevents this chop due to the reduced force applied to the bolt stem at the start of the cycle.

    If you are having leak problems that can't be stopped and the problem is due to the sear assembly, then you will also have problems with a level 7 bolt as well.

    Go back to basics with your level 10 bolt. Start with a new carrier oring to rule out a bad one. Test fit the carrier and oring on the bolt stem before you put it in the powertube. It should be snug but not stiff on the bolt stem. Don't use any shims in the powertube. Assembe the mag and try it. If it leaks, put your finger into the front of the breach and push back against the front of the bolt. Listen for a change in sound. Wiggle the front of the bolt back and forth. Listen for a change in sound. A change in sound when you push it back would indicate a shim problem but since you won't be using any, it would also represent a worn sear tip problem. If the sound changes when you wiggle the front of the bolt, then the carrier is too loose and you need a tighter one. There really isn't much to go wrong with the level 10 bolt.

  18. #1428
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    Level 7 bolts come in two forms, (1)foamy type and (2)hard nose. If you do decide to go with a level 7 bolt, you will need a powertube spacer kit or you will run into the same problems with the level 7 bolt.

    The level 7 and level 10 are far from the same. None of the bolts will chop paint if the gun feeds fast enough to prevent the bolt from hitting a ball before it is fully in the breach. However, if this does happen because of odd firing angles or a hopper that doesn't keep up, then any level 7 bolt will chop the paintball in half. The foamy will not prevent a chop. The design of the level 10 prevents this chop due to the reduced force applied to the bolt stem at the start of the cycle.

    If you are having leak problems that can't be stopped and the problem is due to the sear assembly, then you will also have problems with a level 7 bolt as well.

    Go back to basics with your level 10 bolt. Start with a new carrier oring to rule out a bad one. Test fit the carrier and oring on the bolt stem before you put it in the powertube. It should be snug but not stiff on the bolt stem. Don't use any shims in the powertube. Assembe the mag and try it. If it leaks, put your finger into the front of the breach and push back against the front of the bolt. Listen for a change in sound. Wiggle the front of the bolt back and forth. Listen for a change in sound. A change in sound when you push it back would indicate a shim problem but since you won't be using any, it would also represent a worn sear tip problem. If the sound changes when you wiggle the front of the bolt, then the carrier is too loose and you need a tighter one. There really isn't much to go wrong with the level 10 bolt.
    Hey thanks, I have tried what you have said but it still doesn't work. I looked at the sear and it apeared to be almost brand new. I put the two line carrier in and it leaked for a little bit then stopped. I have an on/off drop and I put the tank on, and turn it on. I could hear the gun air up. I pulled the trigger and nothing happens. I tried the 1 line 1 dot and the same thing happened, only this time when I pulled the trigger it started leaking more and more with each trigger pull. Then when I pushed on the bolt it stopped leaking. Pull the trigger again and it started leaking. It was doing this with 1 line, and the 1 line with one dot carriers. I tried the 2 line 1 dot but it was barely leaking with a trigger pull. I cant figure this thing out and I might just sell the whole damn gun.

  19. #1429
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    Leak in power tube

    I get a small leak down the barrel when i fire then hold my trigger down. Not really a big issue to me but wondering if it affects performance of my marker and how to correct this.

  20. #1430

    Stuck Bolt

    When I fire a long string I eventually get a spissss sound and a stuck bolt. I push the bolt back and fire another string and I get the same thing. The bolt for the ULE body is not over tighten. It may even be on the lose side. I have tried different carries. My stack is white washer, carrier, and three shims. Oil seems to give me more time between failures.

    It is an syderMag and I was thinking of going back to an older bolt, maybe lvl 7, to avoid this problem and to save air. I have break beam eyes installed.

    Any ideas?
    Thanks,
    Vin
    Last edited by vin; 05-05-2006 at 10:43 AM.

  21. #1431
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin
    When I fire a long string I eventually get a spissss sound and a stuck bolt. I push the bolt back and fire another string and I get the same thing. The bolt for the ULE body is not over tighten. It may even be on the lose side. I have tried different carries. My stack is white washer, carrier, and three shims. Oil seems to give me more time between failures.

    It is an syderMag and I was thinking of going back to an older bolt, maybe lvl 7, to avoid this problem and to save air. I have break beam eyes installed.

    Any ideas?
    Thanks,
    Vin
    Remove the shims. Use a size larger carrier (the largest one that doen't leak without any shims installed). Make sure the body is properly tightened by not to the point of distorting the body.

  22. #1432
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackerwil
    I get a small leak down the barrel when i fire then hold my trigger down. Not really a big issue to me but wondering if it affects performance of my marker and how to correct this.
    You may get a tiny hiss. This is common on most level 10 bolts with a near empty chamber. It won't affect the performance.

  23. #1433
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    thats the power tube o-ring breaking in if it starts leaking anymore go down one carrier size

  24. #1434

    Thanks!

    I'll try that stuff and post the results.
    Thanks,
    Vin

  25. #1435

    ok...

    Well
    I got so it doesn't stick but it leaks a little down the barrel every now and then.
    Are there different springs for the lvl 10 and could a different spring help me?
    Thanks for all the help,
    Vin
    ps. I'm going to buy a lvl 7 bolt and see how that does.

  26. #1436
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin
    Well
    I got so it doesn't stick but it leaks a little down the barrel every now and then.
    Are there different springs for the lvl 10 and could a different spring help me?
    Thanks for all the help,
    Vin
    ps. I'm going to buy a lvl 7 bolt and see how that does.
    It is possible that your carrier oring is defective or has a slight blemish, which is requiring a tighter grip on the bolt stem to stop the leaking. If the next tighter carrier causes sticking, then you may need to use a new carrier oring and retune.

    Bolt springs don't affect the leaking. The bolt springs only affect how much impact force the bolt hits the ball with.

  27. #1437

    Thanks

    Thanks,
    I'll get some o-rings

  28. #1438
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    I had a chop

    Ok I just had the lvl 10 installed into my emag and after a minor leak issue I got it to work with no leaking. The problem I guess was that yesterday I decided to go full auto with it and a couple balls chopped. From what I read and heard, I know the level 10 is not supposed to chop a ball. Please let me know what I should look for when I open her up tommorrow. And what I should see that might need replacing. Also is there a way to take the lvl 10 apart. I was looking at it yesterday and I am thing of pushing it all through with my finger. Thanks

    Eddie

  29. #1439
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavishingEddie
    Ok I just had the lvl 10 installed into my emag and after a minor leak issue I got it to work with no leaking. The problem I guess was that yesterday I decided to go full auto with it and a couple balls chopped. From what I read and heard, I know the level 10 is not supposed to chop a ball. Please let me know what I should look for when I open her up tommorrow. And what I should see that might need replacing. Also is there a way to take the lvl 10 apart. I was looking at it yesterday and I am thing of pushing it all through with my finger. Thanks

    Eddie
    List your gun setup, including the velocity you were shooting and the bore size of your barrel.

    Are you chopping balls or breaking balls as they go into the barrel? Do a squeegie test by holding a squeegie against the front of the bolt while you pull the trigger. You will get an idea of the force that the level 10 is putting on the ball. It will help you figure out if the bolt is set correctly.

  30. #1440

    no chop but...

    I played the spydermag yesterday and I didn't chop but I still got a stuck bolt twice, when firing fast. I spent the rest of the day purposely firing slow and got no more sticking, but I'm definitely going to switch to the lvl7 bolt. Hope you figure out the chopping thing,
    Vin

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