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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #1591
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    It is strange that your orings are too loose with the smallest carrier. That rarely happens. If the orings are all too loose, you may need an oring from another batch.
    Do you know where I can source these rings?

  2. #1592
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    Quote Originally Posted by drg
    Do you know where I can source these rings?
    You can get them at any hydraulic supplier. Or, you can get a hold of Tunaman here on AO.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  3. #1593

    Thanks

    NEWB
    Thanks, I did what you said and it worked. but now every so often when I shoot the gun it doesnít fire all the way, like it sporadically hesitates to get off a shot and then the next dozen shots would be fine. The bolt isnít locking up any more so thatís good. Also how could I get that little black foamie thing to stay on the end of the bolt?

    thanks guys..
    Last edited by bry10bry; 06-18-2007 at 09:10 AM.

  4. #1594
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    Quote Originally Posted by bry10bry
    NEWB
    Thanks, I did what you said and it worked. but now every so often when I shoot the gun it doesnít fire all the way, like it sporadically hesitates to get off a shot and then the next dozen shots would be fine. The bolt isnít locking up any more so thatís good. Also how could I get that little black foamie thing to stay on the end of the bolt?

    thanks guys..
    If its hesitating or not firing everytime, then you are still getting a tiny bit of bolt stick. Or it is possible that your velocity isn't high enough for the bolt spring you are using. You should be able to cycle the marker at a setting 20 fps below what your actually going to be using it at. If it won't cycle at 20 fps below the final value, then you need to use the next shorter bolt spring (If using silver, go to red. If using red, go to gold).

    To reinstall the foamy, just clean the front of the bolt face really well with some good cleaner. Then reattach using a good epoxy glue. Don't use superglue, because apparently it will eat the foamy. You can use the bolt without the foamy. It will work just fine.

  5. #1595
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    EDIT - I just solved my own problem with the help of some previous posts in this thread.

    I had two shims installed which I removed one by one. Voila! The leak is gone.
    Thanks all!




    Howdy all!

    Just installed the Level-10 bolt on a 68 Classic Valve.

    It works but has some inconsistency (chronos 285, 284, 286... 300... 280...285). I'm running anti-siphon CO2 with a PPS Stabilizer set to about 750psi.

    The symptom: the Level-10 cycles correctly, however, if I continue to hold the trigger down after firing, there's a TINY "fizzle" of left-over gas that trickles down the barrel.

    I don't even know if this would qualify as a "down the barrel leak" because it only lasts a couple of seconds and it's only post shot.

    What's up with that?
    Last edited by C.J.; 06-20-2007 at 06:24 PM.

  6. #1596
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.
    EDIT - I just solved my own problem with the help of some previous posts in this thread.

    I had two shims installed which I removed one by one. Voila! The leak is gone.
    Thanks all!




    Howdy all!

    Just installed the Level-10 bolt on a 68 Classic Valve.

    It works but has some inconsistency (chronos 285, 284, 286... 300... 280...285). I'm running anti-siphon CO2 with a PPS Stabilizer set to about 750psi.

    The symptom: the Level-10 cycles correctly, however, if I continue to hold the trigger down after firing, there's a TINY "fizzle" of left-over gas that trickles down the barrel.

    I don't even know if this would qualify as a "down the barrel leak" because it only lasts a couple of seconds and it's only post shot.

    What's up with that?
    The inconsistency is most likely caused by imperfect balls. The level 10 tends to be less forgiving on inconsistent sized balls when it comes to velocity.

    Glad you solved the "fizzle" after a shot. The tiny leak that goes away is due to residual pressure in the air chamber. The pressure is fairly low and the carrier oring is not very tight on the bolt stem so there is less chance that the oring will seal, especially when it is very close to the vent hole. At higher pressures the carrier oring is pushed farther towards the front of the bolt which help keeps the vent hole from being exposed. Removing a shim or 2 does the same thing at lower pressures, which you discovered.

  7. #1597
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    The inconsistency is most likely caused by imperfect balls. The level 10 tends to be less forgiving on inconsistent sized balls when it comes to velocity.

    Glad you solved the "fizzle" after a shot. The tiny leak that goes away is due to residual pressure in the air chamber. The pressure is fairly low and the carrier oring is not very tight on the bolt stem so there is less chance that the oring will seal, especially when it is very close to the vent hole. At higher pressures the carrier oring is pushed farther towards the front of the bolt which help keeps the vent hole from being exposed. Removing a shim or 2 does the same thing at lower pressures, which you discovered.
    I buy that explanation. I'm using X-Ball Bronze which is "good" but not the kind of seemless, perfectly formed paint you see in a box of Hellfire. I kind of want to buy a box of Hellfire and try it out but the stuff is expensive, doesn't last forever and is so no field legal at the FPO culture around here.

  8. i just sat down to do all of the advance, or more detailed step up steps from Automags.org. when i got to the shim adjustment portion when its says the bolt should just go forward and get stuck, my gun shoots good with no shims. is this a bad thing? Also, now there is this infernal high pitched leak coming from somewhere around the valve/power tube portion of the gun, but its small enough to where i can't find where its coming from, any suggestions? oh sorry, i have a 68 Automag classic with a retro valve.

    Thanks in Advance

    Edit: i just found out that the leak comes from out the back of the rt valve, it literallty blew the allen wrench out, the more i turn the velocity up, the more it leaks, i have the carrier with one ring in, and no shims. also the red spring is in, i don't know which is the one thats supposed to be in there, but thats the one in there, thanks


    Double Edit: i kept reading on the instruction where i said that if the marker leaks out the back then switch to a shorter main spring, i switched to the shortest one and it still leaks when i turn the velocity up
    Last edited by flashgordon0123; 06-26-2007 at 11:35 AM.

  9. #1599
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashgordon0123
    i just sat down to do all of the advance, or more detailed step up steps from Automags.org. when i got to the shim adjustment portion when its says the bolt should just go forward and get stuck, my gun shoots good with no shims. is this a bad thing? Also, now there is this infernal high pitched leak coming from somewhere around the valve/power tube portion of the gun, but its small enough to where i can't find where its coming from, any suggestions? oh sorry, i have a 68 Automag classic with a retro valve.

    Thanks in Advance

    Edit: i just found out that the leak comes from out the back of the rt valve, it literallty blew the allen wrench out, the more i turn the velocity up, the more it leaks, i have the carrier with one ring in, and no shims. also the red spring is in, i don't know which is the one thats supposed to be in there, but thats the one in there, thanks


    Double Edit: i kept reading on the instruction where i said that if the marker leaks out the back then switch to a shorter main spring, i switched to the shortest one and it still leaks when i turn the velocity up
    A slight leak out the front is due to too many shims or a carrier that is too tight. Since you have no shims installed, you probably need to go to the next smaller carrier using the same carrier oring.

    Alot of people including myself never use shims in their level 10 setups and never have problems. Shims are only needed if your bolt does not reset following a blockage in the breach. In order for shims to make the difference, you do need the carrier to be properly sized first.

    You are using the most common bolt spring. You should be fine.

    A leak out the back as you increase the velocity indicates a weak regulator piston assembly. the level 10 operates at a higher pressure and this causes older valves to leak as you turn up the veloctiy. Get a new regulator piston assembly and you should be fine.

  10. #1600
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    hello, im experiencing HUGE velocity hikes, when i chrono it in at 265 it shoots from 250-270, after about a half hour of play time i noticed balls swirlling in the air, with no broken paint in the barrel. I could also tell the velocity had jumped tremendously. I took it over to the chrono and it read 410fps, i said this chrono has got to be broken and checked the next one and after about 10 shots the velocity's ranged from 380-415fps. I am using HPA with a coiled remote line. and i also shoot procapps-proball paint. Pretty good stuff. This spike only occurd after i installed the level 10 kit. but not the first couple times i have played.

  11. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freebird
    hello, im experiencing HUGE velocity hikes, when i chrono it in at 265 it shoots from 250-270, after about a half hour of play time i noticed balls swirlling in the air, with no broken paint in the barrel. I could also tell the velocity had jumped tremendously. I took it over to the chrono and it read 410fps, i said this chrono has got to be broken and checked the next one and after about 10 shots the velocity's ranged from 380-415fps. I am using HPA with a coiled remote line. and i also shoot procapps-proball paint. Pretty good stuff. This spike only occurd after i installed the level 10 kit. but not the first couple times i have played.
    Velocity spikes like that aren't caused by the level 10. A level 10 issue usually involves the gun not firing. Sounds more like a bad regulator seat oring or a piece of dirt in the regulator seat.

  12. #1602
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    its not so much a problem just something i wat clarifiication too. i installed the lvl 10 on my classic r/t and it seems like there is this sweetspot where if i turn it up even a crack it leaks out the back and if i turn it don a hair it wont fire. my veloctiy is fine if not a little less than i want. is thee anyhting i can do to get moe velocity adjustment out of it, possibly spring, shims. right now im using the red spring, #2 carrier, and 2 shims.

  13. #1603

    Leaking gun

    First off i am new to the MAG world and i loved this gun the first time i used it.

    I chrono'd my rt pro ule fine everything is working great then after the first time I played with it, it developed a small leak that seams to be coming from the trigger. I checked the o-rings on/off pin and everything seems fine all screws are tight, its cleaned and oiled and shoots fine but still a small hiss- what could be the most likely cause of this?

    -Thanks.. NEWB

  14. #1604
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    Quote Originally Posted by originalspyderxtra
    its not so much a problem just something i wat clarifiication too. i installed the lvl 10 on my classic r/t and it seems like there is this sweetspot where if i turn it up even a crack it leaks out the back and if i turn it don a hair it wont fire. my veloctiy is fine if not a little less than i want. is thee anyhting i can do to get moe velocity adjustment out of it, possibly spring, shims. right now im using the red spring, #2 carrier, and 2 shims.
    You need a new higher pressure regulator piston assembly. The level 10 bolt system works at a higher chamber pressure than the level 7. The older or worn piston assemblies release air before you get the pressure high enough to properly operate the valve at the desired velocity. Once you put a new piston assembly in, it will allow you to turn the velocity up to where the gun will shoot reliably without leaking out the back.

  15. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by bry10bry
    First off i am new to the MAG world and i loved this gun the first time i used it.

    I chrono'd my rt pro ule fine everything is working great then after the first time I played with it, it developed a small leak that seams to be coming from the trigger. I checked the o-rings on/off pin and everything seems fine all screws are tight, its cleaned and oiled and shoots fine but still a small hiss- what could be the most likely cause of this?

    -Thanks.. NEWB
    First, find out for sure if the leak is coming from the powertube or from the on-off area. Most likely it is coming from the powertube area. First, take the powertube shims out of your setup and try that. If it still leaks, use the next smaller level 10 carrier with the same carrier oring. That should solve your problems.

  16. #1606

    Lightbulb still leaking

    I have in the smallest carrier no shims still leaks. I hear it the most when I put my ear up to the trigger. How snug should that tiny black o-ring be on the pin itself? I'm usually pretty good at this sort of stuff.. but i'm stumped on this one...
    ..
    ..
    UPDATE.. okay i found a cracked plastic ring spacer thingy it goes between the 2 o-rings on the end of the regulator valve pin assembly as shown here http://www.airgun.com/downloads/retroexploded1.pdf
    Could this be the cause of my leak?
    Can you even order that part?

    Thanks.. newB
    Last edited by bry10bry; 07-13-2007 at 12:41 PM.

  17. #1607
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    Quote Originally Posted by bry10bry
    I have in the smallest carrier no shims still leaks. I hear it the most when I put my ear up to the trigger. How snug should that tiny black o-ring be on the pin itself? I'm usually pretty good at this sort of stuff.. but i'm stumped on this one...
    ..
    ..
    UPDATE.. okay i found a cracked plastic ring spacer thingy it goes between the 2 o-rings on the end of the regulator valve pin assembly as shown here http://www.airgun.com/downloads/retroexploded1.pdf
    Could this be the cause of my leak?
    Can you even order that part?

    Thanks.. newB
    The tiny cracked oring is actually a plastic spacer with a split in it. It is made like that.

    A level 10 carrier leak would be heard from the front of the body or from the feed tube more than from the trigger area. A leak that is more pronounced from the on-off area is related to the two lower orings in the on-off assembly.

    If you are getting a carrier oring leak with the smallest carrier installed, use a new oring and go through the level 10 tuning process again.

  18. #1608
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    RT Pro Problem

    Have an RT Pro with Level 10 bolt. Bought the marker new around 01 and put the level 10 in late 03 I believe. Never had any problems with the marker and thought was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Unfortunatley I had to put the marker into storage first part of 04. Everything was perfectly upkept oiled and taken care of, even before put into storage. Finally got a chance to get back into paintball this week so I recovered my RT pro did a basic wipe down and re-oil. DID NOT TAKE THE VALVE APART AT THIS POINT!!! First time I aired up the system and pulled the trigger marker went full auto on me. Since that time I've tried every spacer, every shim, every spring, and every combination thereof that I could think of. Even put he original level 7 back on the valve. Changed every o-ring in the valve. But still all I get is air down the barrel or ocassional full auto without even touching the trigger. I appreciate any help any one can give me.

  19. #1609
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino271
    Have an RT Pro with Level 10 bolt. Bought the marker new around 01 and put the level 10 in late 03 I believe. Never had any problems with the marker and thought was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Unfortunatley I had to put the marker into storage first part of 04. Everything was perfectly upkept oiled and taken care of, even before put into storage. Finally got a chance to get back into paintball this week so I recovered my RT pro did a basic wipe down and re-oil. DID NOT TAKE THE VALVE APART AT THIS POINT!!! First time I aired up the system and pulled the trigger marker went full auto on me. Since that time I've tried every spacer, every shim, every spring, and every combination thereof that I could think of. Even put he original level 7 back on the valve. Changed every o-ring in the valve. But still all I get is air down the barrel or ocassional full auto without even touching the trigger. I appreciate any help any one can give me.
    If the problem persists even after you put a level 7 bolt in, then the problem is not level 10 related and should be listed in the tech section under its own heading.

    Full auto is generally attributed to the sear and on-off area of the gun. If you already replaced the orings, then the top on-off orings are probably good. Check your sear for wear. That will cause full auto. Have you replaced the bolt spring? It shouldn't cause full auto, but needs to be replaced on a regular basis.

    What happens when you hold the trigger? Are there leaks out the front? A leak here would indicate a bad on-off top oring.

  20. #1610
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    If the problem persists even after you put a level 7 bolt in, then the problem is not level 10 related and should be listed in the tech section under its own heading.

    Full auto is generally attributed to the sear and on-off area of the gun. If you already replaced the orings, then the top on-off orings are probably good. Check your sear for wear. That will cause full auto. Have you replaced the bolt spring? It shouldn't cause full auto, but needs to be replaced on a regular basis.

    What happens when you hold the trigger? Are there leaks out the front? A leak here would indicate a bad on-off top oring.
    The full auto primarily only happened the first time I aired the marker up. The main problem I am getting now is either no pressure getting to the trigger at all (which is why I don't think sear", or air down the front regardless of how much I adjust the pressure regulator. As I said I've used every length spring I have along with trying every spacer. When I put the level 7 back in I'm not positive I had the right bottom o-ring that goes in the power tube because you could tell my bolt would not quite seat all the way unless pushed.

    Springs and on-off oring were my first thoughts and first thing I checked only other possible thing I can think of is just that after sitting in storage for so long even my replacement orings are just a little to hard to. They were still in their original zip lock back with just a little marker oil on them.

    Thanks and I'll check it agin when I get home from work.

  21. #1611
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino271
    The full auto primarily only happened the first time I aired the marker up. The main problem I am getting now is either no pressure getting to the trigger at all (which is why I don't think sear", or air down the front regardless of how much I adjust the pressure regulator. As I said I've used every length spring I have along with trying every spacer. When I put the level 7 back in I'm not positive I had the right bottom o-ring that goes in the power tube because you could tell my bolt would not quite seat all the way unless pushed.

    Springs and on-off oring were my first thoughts and first thing I checked only other possible thing I can think of is just that after sitting in storage for so long even my replacement orings are just a little to hard to. They were still in their original zip lock back with just a little marker oil on them.

    Thanks and I'll check it agin when I get home from work.

    athomas,

    thanks for the help. Pulled the marker apart again today and decided to check the sear, didn't notice it first time but the sear cracked just above the pivot sleeve. Have a new one ordered and hopefully that should fix my problem. thanks again!!!

  22. #1612
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino271
    The main problem I am getting now is either no pressure getting to the trigger at all (which is why I don't think sear", or air down the front regardless of how much I adjust the pressure regulator.
    No pressure on the trigger is a sign of bolt stick in the level 10. That means you need to use a larger carrier with the same carrier oring. Use the largest one that doesn't leak. Don't use any shims when checking it our.

  23. #1613

    Emag leaks, Full auto in mech mode

    I've read through this thread a couple of times and Have done a lot of the recomended things here but I still can't get this marker to shoot right.

    It's a stock emag with Level 10 and 3.2 software. After firing several shots I get a big leak down the barrel. I'm on a size zero carrier now and have tried the .5 and 1 which didnt make much difference. I've also tried different numbers of shims and noticed that at 2 shimes it began chopping paint so I went back to 3. The red bolt spring did seem to help, but I never tried the gold one.

    Dry firing works fine. I can shoot it all day with no paint and get no leaks. But the second I add paint, it starts messing up.

    I also found yesterday, that in mech mode the marker shoots full auto.

    I'm getting close to either sending it back to AGD for an overhaul if I cn't figure this out soon.

    I'm just glad my other emag runs like a sweing machine.

  24. #1614
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyboy
    I've read through this thread a couple of times and Have done a lot of the recomended things here but I still can't get this marker to shoot right.

    It's a stock emag with Level 10 and 3.2 software. After firing several shots I get a big leak down the barrel. I'm on a size zero carrier now and have tried the .5 and 1 which didnt make much difference. I've also tried different numbers of shims and noticed that at 2 shimes it began chopping paint so I went back to 3. The red bolt spring did seem to help, but I never tried the gold one.

    Dry firing works fine. I can shoot it all day with no paint and get no leaks. But the second I add paint, it starts messing up.

    I also found yesterday, that in mech mode the marker shoots full auto.

    I'm getting close to either sending it back to AGD for an overhaul if I cn't figure this out soon.

    I'm just glad my other emag runs like a sweing machine.
    Remove all the shims when setting the level 10 up. Too many can cause a leak that may result in you having to use a carrier that is too tight. A carrier that is too tight will cause bolt stick and leaking down the barrel.

    Shims don't affect the chopping of paint. If your gun is chopping it is caused by something else.

    Start at the beginning.

    1) Remove all shims.
    2) Use the largest carrier that does not leak. Always use the same white powertube oring.
    3) Use the red bolt spring.
    4) Turn the velocity up to allow you to shoot 280fps.
    5) If you wish to use shims do so now. Add shims one at a time until you get a leak, then remove the one that caused the leak. Many people don't use shims at all and have never had problems. If you do fire, hit a blockage, and the bolt doesn't reset, then add a shim. Bolt stick following a shot is not shim related.

    If you can't get an carrier that is small enough to stop any leaking, then change carrier orings and start the tuning process again.

  25. #1615
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    problem

    i just put in the ULT and now when i let the trigger bounce and shoot fast the bolt makes the sound like when it just backed off of a paintball, you know the kinda pssshvvvv sound. it recocks and everything but this happens every 20 to 25 shots and its getting annoying . o and when this happens there is no paint in it.

    *sorry if this is in the wrong thread i wasn't sure if it should go here or the ULT thread, but being as it is the lvl 10 bolt i put it here

    thanks

  26. #1616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusher360
    i just put in the ULT and now when i let the trigger bounce and shoot fast the bolt makes the sound like when it just backed off of a paintball, you know the kinda pssshvvvv sound. it recocks and everything but this happens every 20 to 25 shots and its getting annoying . o and when this happens there is no paint in it.

    *sorry if this is in the wrong thread i wasn't sure if it should go here or the ULT thread, but being as it is the lvl 10 bolt i put it here

    thanks
    Sounds like you are short stroking the gun. If the trigger gets pulled too soon after the on-off resets, the pressure in the chamber won't be high enough to properly cycle the gun and it could chuff, which is the sound you are hearing. If you are going to bounce the trigger, you need a higher input pressure to charge the chamber faster. If not, then you need to fully release the trigger before the next shot. Add a ULT shim and your problem should also go away, but you will not bounce the trigger near as easily.

  27. #1617
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    thanks alot for the answer athomas
    could you or someone else then tell me how to increase the input pressure? does it have to do with the tank or my xvalve or what

  28. #1618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusher360
    thanks alot for the answer athomas
    could you or someone else then tell me how to increase the input pressure? does it have to do with the tank or my xvalve or what
    you need an adjustable tank to be able to increase the tank pressure. You can add shims to the spring packs of some of the none adjustable tanks.

    Trigger bounce is generally not a ULT trait. If your tank pressure output is not high, it generally means your ULT is not quite setup right or you have a worn sear tip. Some have gotten trigger bounce with the right setup of shims and high tank pressure.

  29. #1619
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    well i have an output pressure of 850 psi on my tank which is pretty standard. i guess if i want to keep the bounce ill need to go to 1000 or 1100 output.

    only problem is ill be out of air before the game even starts

    ill probably add a shim and lose the bounce

  30. #1620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusher360
    well i have an output pressure of 850 psi on my tank which is pretty standard. i guess if i want to keep the bounce ill need to go to 1000 or 1100 output.

    only problem is ill be out of air before the game even starts

    ill probably add a shim and lose the bounce
    No, you remove a ULT shim to reduce the bounce.

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