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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #1621
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    28
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    No, you remove a ULT shim to reduce the bounce.
    o...right

  2. #1622
    ok lvl 10 on classic valve not working...airs up fine no leak but acts like bolt stick but pushing on the bolt doesn't reset it...any Ideas?

  3. #1623
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim888
    ok lvl 10 on classic valve not working...airs up fine no leak but acts like bolt stick but pushing on the bolt doesn't reset it...any Ideas?
    No offence but get a decent gun, got 2 normal and 1 micro mag in the cupboard for years now, get a Ion or Angel or even a cocker, they are going quite cheap now

  4. #1624
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim888
    ok lvl 10 on classic valve not working...airs up fine no leak but acts like bolt stick but pushing on the bolt doesn't reset it...any Ideas?
    Was the valve working? Did you just put the level 10 on and it stopped working? If I understand you correctly, the trigger is limp and doesn't reset when you push the bolt back.

    Explain your complete gun setup so we can get a better understanding of your situation.


    Don't mind "alofus". He's obviously an uninformed noob.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  5. #1625
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    Was the valve working? Did you just put the level 10 on and it stopped working? If I understand you correctly, the trigger is limp and doesn't reset when you push the bolt back.

    Explain your complete gun setup so we can get a better understanding of your situation.
    yes the valve worked busted a power tube o-ring so barrel leak got in lvl 10 put it on classic valve gun airs up no leaks trigger is firm and engages the sear but will no fire...also something previously I thought to be unrelated but am now thinking possibly my have a part is my on off pin everytime I try and take out the valve I have to remove the body and rail because the on/off pin pushes out and down into the hole in the body that the sear sticks through and will not go back up...any Ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    Don't mind "alofus". He's obviously an uninformed noob.
    in response to him I have several guns but prefer my mags to the dm3 and pump cocker

    and yes I've shot Ions and angels but still prefer my mags

  6. #1626
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim888
    yes the valve worked busted a power tube o-ring so barrel leak got in lvl 10 put it on classic valve gun airs up no leaks trigger is firm and engages the sear but will no fire...
    Don't forget to increase the velocity adjustment. The level 10 bolt operates at a much higher pressure than the level 7 bolt, especially with the red or grey spring. Make sure you test the level 10 setup without any shims installed. Always use the largest carrier that doesn't leak. A leak caused by too many shims could accidently be compensated for by using a carrier size that is too small. The tight carrier would then cause bolt stick issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim888
    also something previously I thought to be unrelated but am now thinking possibly my have a part is my on off pin everytime I try and take out the valve I have to remove the body and rail because the on/off pin pushes out and down into the hole in the body that the sear sticks through and will not go back up...any Ideas?
    Always pull and hold the trigger in when removing the valve. It will keep the pin pushed up inside the valve and away from the hole in the body.

  7. #1627
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    Don't forget to increase the velocity adjustment. The level 10 bolt operates at a much higher pressure than the level 7 bolt, especially with the red or grey spring. Make sure you test the level 10 setup without any shims installed. Always use the largest carrier that doesn't leak. A leak caused by too many shims could accidently be compensated for by using a carrier size that is too small. The tight carrier would then cause bolt stick issues.

    Always pull and hold the trigger in when removing the valve. It will keep the pin pushed up inside the valve and away from the hole in the body.

    ok issues still....I did forget about increasing velocity...that helped. some

    using carrier #2 (2 lines) and one shim no leaks and will cycle but now I have bolt stick...fire stick...push bolt back fire...stick (repeat)

    I've tried changing carrier size and adding shims and different springs... nothing works...

    oh and I have been holding in the trigger when taking out the valve...still does not keep pin far enough in

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim888
    ok issues still....I did forget about increasing velocity...that helped. some

    using carrier #2 (2 lines) and one shim no leaks and will cycle but now I have bolt stick...fire stick...push bolt back fire...stick (repeat)

    I've tried changing carrier size and adding shims and different springs... nothing works...

    oh and I have been holding in the trigger when taking out the valve...still does not keep pin far enough in
    If you are getting bolt stick using the 2.0 carrier, go to the 2.5 carrier. The bolt stick is directly related to the carrier oring being too tight. It is usually too tight due to a carrier that is too small. Don't add shims just yet. Wait until you get it working first. Shims only adjust how far the bolt has to move before it vents the excess air and can reset itself after a breach blockage. Too many shims can cause leaking not related to the carrier size.

    As for the on-off pin;

    How much distance is between the back of the trigger and the front of the trigger rod when the gun is gassed up and ready to go with the trigger pushed fully forward? There should be about a credit card thickness. Too much distance and you won't be able to push the pin in far enough to remove the valve.

  9. #1629
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    If you are getting bolt stick using the 2.0 carrier, go to the 2.5 carrier. The bolt stick is directly related to the carrier oring being too tight. It is usually too tight due to a carrier that is too small. Don't add shims just yet. Wait until you get it working first. Shims only adjust how far the bolt has to move before it vents the excess air and can reset itself after a breach blockage. Too many shims can cause leaking not related to the carrier size.

    As for the on-off pin;

    How much distance is between the back of the trigger and the front of the trigger rod when the gun is gassed up and ready to go with the trigger pushed fully forward? There should be about a credit card thickness. Too much distance and you won't be able to push the pin in far enough to remove the valve.

    ok adjusted the sear a little it was just a little short...thats working right now...BUT I put in the 2.5 carrier and now I have a leak and the gun wont cycle....Grrr

  10. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim888
    ok adjusted the sear a little it was just a little short...thats working right now...BUT I put in the 2.5 carrier and now I have a leak and the gun wont cycle....Grrr
    Go back to the 2.0 carrier. What bolt spring are you using, and what is your velocity set to? Try the short gold spring to start.

  11. #1631
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    Go back to the 2.0 carrier. What bolt spring are you using, and what is your velocity set to? Try the short gold spring to start.

    using short gold spring and I have no clue velocity wise right now...cant find my crony

    and I had to bump it up to get the gun to cycle

  12. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim888
    using short gold spring and I have no clue velocity wise right now...cant find my crony

    and I had to bump it up to get the gun to cycle
    If its getting bolt stick while firing with the largest carrier that doesn't leak, try a new level 10 oring and retune it. You may have a defective oring.

  13. #1633
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    If its getting bolt stick while firing with the largest carrier that doesn't leak, try a new level 10 oring and retune it. You may have a defective oring.

    are you taking about the Oring that goes in the carrier?

  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim888
    are you taking about the Oring that goes in the carrier?
    Yes

  15. #1635
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
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    The black rubber thing in my Level 10 bolt came out and is gone. Can this be replaced or must I buy a new bolt? If I can replace it, what is it called or what is the part number?

    Thanks.

  16. #1636
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    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBC
    The black rubber thing in my Level 10 bolt came out and is gone. Can this be replaced or must I buy a new bolt? If I can replace it, what is it called or what is the part number?

    Thanks.
    It is called a foamy. They can be purchased and reinstalled. Make sure the front surface is clean and use an epoxy to reattach it. You can use the bolt without it if you want. The foamy just prevents rollback of the ball.

  17. #1637

    I am frustrated (wont stop leaking down barrel)

    I have a level ten on my retro valve. I only got a partial set of carriers from the seller. He tuned it and tested it in his mag and everything was working fine. When I put it in my minimag and aired it up it just leaks air pretty quickly down the barrel. I moved to the next smallest carrier he sent me and it leaks just as bad. I have the 1 and the .5 carrier. They are the second and third smallest. I also have 2 shims in it. What could it be? Its really frustrating me. I put new orings in the on/off just incase it was that, but it didnt help. I also putting 1k psi to the valve, but it also leaks all the way down to 400 psi.

    Thanks,
    Barry

  18. #1638
    im sure youve heard this a million times but heres my set up i have the gold spring in the Lv.10 with i think 3-4 shims and the ult with who know how many shims. but the im getting leaks down the barrel ? i add a shim it gets worse i take one away and it just chuffs whats the dealllll? and when i get it to stop leaking the first shot rolls out the barrel and then the rest are good ?

  19. #1639
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatty123
    I have a level ten on my retro valve. I only got a partial set of carriers from the seller. He tuned it and tested it in his mag and everything was working fine. When I put it in my minimag and aired it up it just leaks air pretty quickly down the barrel. I moved to the next smallest carrier he sent me and it leaks just as bad. I have the 1 and the .5 carrier. They are the second and third smallest. I also have 2 shims in it. What could it be? Its really frustrating me. I put new orings in the on/off just incase it was that, but it didnt help. I also putting 1k psi to the valve, but it also leaks all the way down to 400 psi.

    Thanks,
    Barry
    Go back to the original carrier that was in the valve. Remove all the shims. If the sear has any wear at all, the shims could be pushing the carrier back beyond the vent hole in the bolt stem, thus allowing it to leak. If it still leaks, check the condition of the sear tip. If it shows excessive wear, you may need to replace it.

  20. #1640
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    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by elephant toast
    im sure youve heard this a million times but heres my set up i have the gold spring in the Lv.10 with i think 3-4 shims and the ult with who know how many shims. but the im getting leaks down the barrel ? i add a shim it gets worse i take one away and it just chuffs whats the dealllll? and when i get it to stop leaking the first shot rolls out the barrel and then the rest are good ?
    Shims don't cause chuffing. If you are getting chuffing, it is most likely caused by a carrier that is too tight or a ULT that is not tuned properly. If you have leaking down the front, you probably have too many shims installed in the powertube. Remove them all when tuning your level 10. The level 10 setup should work fine without any shims at all. Shims only adjust how far the bolt has to move before it can vent. They don't affect the normal operation.

  21. #1641
    I dont seem to see any wear on my sear. Maybe the tolerances are different. I went back to the 1 carrier from the point five and no shims and the leak is almost gone. What now?


    Barry

  22. #1642
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    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatty123
    I dont seem to see any wear on my sear. Maybe the tolerances are different. I went back to the 1 carrier from the point five and no shims and the leak is almost gone. What now?


    Barry
    With the marker aired up, gently push the bolt straight back towards the valve. If the leak stops as you push it back, then something is out of tolerance. If the leak persists, then you need to go to the next smaller carrier or change carrier orings and start again.

  23. #1643
    Quote Originally Posted by phatty123
    I dont seem to see any wear on my sear. Maybe the tolerances are different. I went back to the 1 carrier from the point five and no shims and the leak is almost gone. What now?


    Barry

    Well thanks for eveyones help. Finally it is fixed. My local pball store owner hates automags and pretty much dumps his parts on me for cheap. Today when I was getting a fill I asked him if he had any orings that would fit the inside of the carriers. While he was looking I saw he had a level 10 kit. I went through it and it had all the carriers except the 2.0 carrier. It had extra orings, shims, all three springs, the cd, bolt foamies, and all the original level 7 parts. The only thing it was missing was the 2.0 carrier. Well he sold it to me for twenty bucks. I took it home and replaced the backing washer and shims and installed a new oring in the 1.5 carrier. I put it all back to together and it works perfectly. Also he is selling me an orginal brand new automag rt and a slightly upgraded 68 classic power feed with level 10 for 150 bucks. They both have air america armeggedon tank regs on their drop forwards as well. i don't have the money, but I'm putting them on layaway. Damnit I love the good deals.



    all I need is a bicycle grip and she is done.

  24. #1644
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    67
    I have a new tac-one and i realize the level 10 isn't tuned from the factory. What exactly needs changing from new, just the shims and carriers to achieve the anti chop functionality?

  25. #1645
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    Jan 2002
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skiddz
    I have a new tac-one and i realize the level 10 isn't tuned from the factory. What exactly needs changing from new, just the shims and carriers to achieve the anti chop functionality?
    Remove the shims when tuning. Use the largest carrier that does not leak. Always use the same white carrier oring when testing carrier sizes. If you have problems where the gun normally fires properly, but doesn't reset after a bolt vent due to a breach blockage, then add a couple of shims. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother with the shims.

    The carriers affect operational bolt stick.
    Shims affect how far the bolt has to travel before it can reset.
    Bolt springs affect the bolt impact force, which is the anti-chop ability.

  26. #1646
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    Oct 2007
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    Michigan
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    so all i need to do to tune my level 10 is adjust the carrier and wage if i need to add shims?

  27. #1647
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skiddz
    so all i need to do to tune my level 10 is adjust the carrier and wage if i need to add shims?
    Yes, just adjust your carrier to prevent bolt stick. Use the stiffest spring that allows your gun to fire consistently. You should be able fire your gun almost 20fps lower than your desired fps setting. If the gun stops firing if you adjust the velocity setting less than 20 fps below the desired setting, then your bolt spring is too stiff and you should use the next smaller/lighter one.

  28. #1648
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
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    I won't be able to get back to tuning my Tac-One for another day, so I was hoping you guys could help me diagnose my problem. I read this problem on the forum before but couldn't find it again.

    I am using the same white O-ring every time I change carriers
    When using 1.5 carrier with 0 shims, shortest spring, there is a slight leak.
    Move down to 1.0 carrier with 0 shims, shortest spring, there is no leak.

    So, my Tac-One is set up at: 1.0 carrier, 3 shims, shortest spring.

    I kept adding shims until it leaked, then took one shim out.

    Problem:
    If I fire slowly, with 2 second intervals, my marker releases air out the front bolt. But if I fire rapidly, I have no problem, except on the first shot which releases air out the front bolt.

    So what would the be the problem here?

    Thanks a lot!!

    -Mark

  29. #1649
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    Quote Originally Posted by aznmarkofdafiji
    I won't be able to get back to tuning my Tac-One for another day, so I was hoping you guys could help me diagnose my problem. I read this problem on the forum before but couldn't find it again.

    I am using the same white O-ring every time I change carriers
    When using 1.5 carrier with 0 shims, shortest spring, there is a slight leak.
    Move down to 1.0 carrier with 0 shims, shortest spring, there is no leak.

    So, my Tac-One is set up at: 1.0 carrier, 3 shims, shortest spring.

    I kept adding shims until it leaked, then took one shim out.

    Problem:
    If I fire slowly, with 2 second intervals, my marker releases air out the front bolt. But if I fire rapidly, I have no problem, except on the first shot which releases air out the front bolt.

    So what would the be the problem here?

    Thanks a lot!!

    -Mark
    Take one more shim out.

  30. #1650
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    67
    is it unusual to switch to the smallest carrier? By smallest i mean the smallest carrier you are given.

    Also can you outshoot the mag? I had some paintballs get shot so fast that i had some kind of drop out. I broke some paint but looked in the breech and nothing. In fact the barrel was clean up until the tip.

    So those are some questions i wanted cleared up. Also i'm not sure if my level 10 is tuned right still. I've tried the paper trick and the paintball on tape trick but none proved my theory.

    The only reason im on the smallest is because after i shot a hopper or so through my tac-one the gun started slightly leaking from the barrel.

    (this tac one is fairly new. only 2 cases through it)

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