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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #2191
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    im using a rtp rail and gearheadz body.

  2. #2192
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    Quote Originally Posted by magman313 View Post
    im using a rtp rail and gearheadz body.
    I don't have any experience with the Gearheadz bodies. The rtp rail should give you the correct spacing for the sear,bolt, and valve interaction, so as long as the body isn't interfering with anything you should be fine.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  3. #2193
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    Would me putting too many shims in my ult cause a problem like this?

  4. #2194
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    Quote Originally Posted by magman313 View Post
    Would me putting too many shims in my ult cause a problem like this?
    Too many ULT shims could cause the bolt to stick. Usually, it causes a bit of full auto reactivity first, but not always. It depends on your setup. When the ULT causes it to stick, it is usually accompanied with air leaking down the barrel.

  5. #2195
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    i started over and i removed the ult and put in an rt on/off, switched from the gold spring to the red spring, removed all the shims and now i have a blender, my bolt wont stop on anything.... im at a loss for words. im also rting with my tank set to 700 psi.

  6. #2196
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    Quote Originally Posted by magman313 View Post
    i started over and i removed the ult and put in an rt on/off, switched from the gold spring to the red spring, removed all the shims and now i have a blender, my bolt wont stop on anything.... im at a loss for words. im also rting with my tank set to 700 psi.
    If it is hitting too hard with the red spring, then your velocity is turned up way too high or your regulator seat oring is leaking. Have you cleaned out the valve itself? Its always best to completely clean and check the orings in any new used valve. Are both orings installed above the rt on-off top?

    You should move and summarize your info into a thread of its own. It may be more than a basic level 10 issue. Being that its a mag, it won't be anything serious though.

  7. #2197
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    I did that, but I think your like right on point here. the o-ring on top of my rt on/off was no good, I just pulled it out and it crumpled into pieces. also, theres supposed to be two O-rings on top of it? I thought there was only one?

  8. #2198
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    A smaller oring inside of a larger oring on top of the on/off. Both should be clear. Good to know you are finding things wrong, like combustible orings XD
    Thanks,
    Jason

  9. #2199
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    ok, im back and my question is, the shims adjust the bolt time resetting correct? I currently have none in and I have no leaks, I also have no idea what my velocity is but if I turn it up too much bolt wont stop on things and when I turn it down to where I think is about the range im going to be shooting at it seems it takes the bolt a second or two to completely reset.

    im asking so when I do make it out to the field and crono my gun I know if im thinking correctly or not. thanks again guys

  10. #2200
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    Quote Originally Posted by magman313 View Post
    ok, im back and my question is, the shims adjust the bolt time resetting correct? I currently have none in and I have no leaks, I also have no idea what my velocity is but if I turn it up too much bolt wont stop on things and when I turn it down to where I think is about the range im going to be shooting at it seems it takes the bolt a second or two to completely reset.

    im asking so when I do make it out to the field and crono my gun I know if im thinking correctly or not. thanks again guys
    No, the shims do not adjust the timing. They only adjust the distance that the bolt needs to travel before it can start venting air. This distance needs to be short enough so that any forward movement will allow the bolt to vent air and reset if it hits an object in front of it and needs to reset. The reality is that the shims really don't change the distance enough to matter if the level 10 carrier is setup properly.

    When you test the level 10 operation, make sure you are placing the object directly on the front of the bolt face and not more than 1/4" in front of the bolt. If the object is more than 1/4" from the front face, the bolt will strike it with full destructive force and not the reduced level 10 force.

    The bolt spring should always be able to push the bolt back to the reset position without hesitation. If the bolt takes a second or two to reset, it usually indicates that the carrier is tight and restricting the bolt movement.

  11. #2201
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    thanks again athomas, I believe im all good to go now.

  12. #2202
    Level 10 issues here.

    I think the culprit may be a worn gold spring, as I've tried everything else.
    I removed all the shims, and worked my way with the carriers to the best fitted one, with no leaks.

    I'll pull the trigger and the lvl10 will kick in, but most often then not, I'll have to reset the bolt by pushing it back.
    Aside from being a worn spring, is there anything I should look at?

  13. #2203
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    well, if you used the largest (loosest) carrier that doesn't leak (using the same o-ring with the different sized carriers), and the bolt is not resetting after a breech obstruction, i would first oil the lvl 10 o-ring, then if that doesn't help try a different spring. seems like you're on the right track.

    i've found the gold spring hits too hard though; it would reset during a breech obstruction but crack the paintball in testing. you may want to try a red spring, or a cut-down silver spring (place cut end towards bolt). or maybe the gold spring i was using was a regular lvl 7 spring...i don't know. use a spring that hits hard enough to push a paintball into a tight bore without resetting, but soft enough that it doesn't crack a paintball if you hold it halfway in the breech.

  14. #2204
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyeStick View Post
    Level 10 issues here.

    I think the culprit may be a worn gold spring, as I've tried everything else.
    I removed all the shims, and worked my way with the carriers to the best fitted one, with no leaks.

    I'll pull the trigger and the lvl10 will kick in, but most often then not, I'll have to reset the bolt by pushing it back.
    Aside from being a worn spring, is there anything I should look at?
    A properly working level 10 bolt will always reset, even if the bolt spring is weak. It will just do it a bit slower. You seem to have followed the proper procedure for getting the proper fitting carrier size, so there may be other factors coming into play. As long as you are using the largest carrier size that does not produce a leak using the same white powertube carrier oring, then that is all you can really do for that kind of reset issue.

    When you fire the gun and hold the trigger in, how long does it take before the bolt stops weeping air out the front? If the answer is that it never stops, then it is more likely an on-off issue. If it stops after a few seconds (even quite a few), then the problem is that the carrier size is too tight. Having a carrier that is too tight even though it is the largest one that doesn't leak is a result of a bad carrier oring. If that is the case, change the oring and go through the tuning procedure again.

  15. #2205
    When I pull the trigger, it doesn't leak. No matter how long I hold it for. Is that a possible sign of something wrong?

  16. #2206
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyeStick View Post
    When I pull the trigger, it doesn't leak. No matter how long I hold it for. Is that a possible sign of something wrong?
    No, that is good. It means your on-off is working properly and the problem is isolated to the powertube area. Try a new oring and keep increasing the carrier size until it produces a leak. Then use the previous one that didn't leak.

    Are you using a stock AGD body and rail? When you dry fire, does the bolt reset? When you hold your hand over the end of the barrel and dry fire, does the bolt reset? When you hold the front of the bolt with your finger and pull the trigger, does it chuff and then reset?

  17. #2207
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Are you using a stock AGD body and rail? When you dry fire, does the bolt reset? When you hold your hand over the end of the barrel and dry fire, does the bolt reset? When you hold the front of the bolt with your finger and pull the trigger, does it chuff and then reset?
    I'm using a stock, ULE body, but an aftermarket rail. I'm using a rail from Luke's Customs. When I fire the marker, the bolt resets. When holding my hand over the end of the barrel and fire, the bolt resets.
    When I hold the front of the bolt, and pull the trigger it chuffs and resets.

  18. #2208
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyeStick View Post
    I'm using a stock, ULE body, but an aftermarket rail. I'm using a rail from Luke's Customs. When I fire the marker, the bolt resets. When holding my hand over the end of the barrel and fire, the bolt resets.
    When I hold the front of the bolt, and pull the trigger it chuffs and resets.
    Those tests indicate that everything is working the way it should. Under what circumstances did it not reset? ie; Did it fire a ball and then not reset, or did it jam on a ball and not reset, etc? If it jammed on a ball and didn't reset, did it "chuff" when it did it?

    Is the body sitting flat on the rail? Make sure the pim on the bottom of the body isn't bottoming out in the trigger frame screw hole area. Also, don't over torque the field strip screw. It can warp the valve - body - rail alignment.

  19. #2209
    Thank you, athomas! Your consistent replies to these most recent posts has allowed me effectively troubleshoot my own issues.

    I discovered that my sear/trigger rod, though new and direct from AGD, was a bit too long for my intelliframe. I was having issues with the on/off until I adjusted the length based on the trigger pulled back with the safety engaged. (credit card thickness now)

    I was then able to deal with my Level X issues, which turned out to be 1 carrier size too small. I was able to move up to the next carrier size( from 1 line to 1 line/1 dot) without leaking, whilst addressing bolt stick issues. She is now airtight and fires consistently without issues so far.

  20. #2210
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ritual View Post
    Thank you, athomas! Your consistent replies to these most recent posts has allowed me effectively troubleshoot my own issues.

    I discovered that my sear/trigger rod, though new and direct from AGD, was a bit too long for my intelliframe. I was having issues with the on/off until I adjusted the length based on the trigger pulled back with the safety engaged. (credit card thickness now)

    I was then able to deal with my Level X issues, which turned out to be 1 carrier size too small. I was able to move up to the next carrier size( from 1 line to 1 line/1 dot) without leaking, whilst addressing bolt stick issues. She is now airtight and fires consistently without issues so far.
    Thanks for posting your findings, your fix, and results. It helps others as well.

  21. #2211
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    ive got a slight leak down the barrel on my valve, thought I had it tuned good went to shoot it today and this, the thing though is that if I slightly hold the trigger no leak... im guessing I have the wrong carrier size?

    ive got a x-valve lvl 10 and I just changed all the O-rings in the valve. first time I shot it no leaks, could it be the carrier o-ring loosing up from being broke in giving me the wrong size carrier now?
    Last edited by magman313; 04-07-2014 at 04:50 PM.

  22. #2212
    Hey Thomas, I think the issue that I'm having with my Mag is due to the usage of using brittle paint. I'm talking paint that breaks from dropping it from a foot above the ground. I won't be able to confirm until I take my mag back to the field.

  23. #2213
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    Quote Originally Posted by magman313 View Post
    ive got a slight leak down the barrel on my valve, thought I had it tuned good went to shoot it today and this, the thing though is that if I slightly hold the trigger no leak... im guessing I have the wrong carrier size?
    This is generally related to having too many shims installed. When you slightly hold the trigger, it starts to push the bolt back which moves the bolt stem vent hole away from the sealing edge of the carrier oring. If you remove the shims, it will allow the carrier and oring to sit farther forward which will allow the bolt stem vent hole to always be far enough behind the sealing edge of the carrier oring so that it never leaks.

  24. #2214
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    no shims are installed

  25. #2215
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    Quote Originally Posted by magman313 View Post
    no shims are installed
    That means something else is causing your bolt to be too far forward. It can only be the sear or the position of the valve on the rail. If everything is genuine AGD, and new, then something is out of spec. You can adjust the parameters. Shave a tiny bit off the back of the powertube tip. That will allow the carrier to sit farther forward and keep the bolt stem vent hole from being exposed. Only do this if you are sure that everything else is in new condition.

  26. #2216
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    ill try putting my valve into a different mag, if I still have a problem I guess ill get ahold of tuna

  27. #2217
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    so I think I just might be special or my power tube tip wasn't tightened all the way. its fine that is all right now, back to the other valve I go, hopefully you don't have to hear from me for a while

  28. #2218
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    Quote Originally Posted by magman313 View Post
    so I think I just might be special or my power tube tip wasn't tightened all the way. its fine that is all right now, back to the other valve I go, hopefully you don't have to hear from me for a while
    Hmmm. A loose powertube tip should have allowed the carrier to sit farther forward allowing the sealing edge of the oring to remain in front of the vent hole and preventing a leak rather than making one. Maybe it being loose was more of an issue. I'm glad its working now, though.

  29. #2219

    Bolt occasionally sticks? Next size up in carrier leaks.

    My setup is an X-valve with ULT on/off. The rest is pretty damn close to stock minimag + intelliframe. The air comes from a ninja SHP pushing ~1200 psi.

    About once every 100 shots or so my bolt is having trouble resetting. The gun will shoot, then hiss down the barrel with a limp trigger for a second or three before resetting. I think it happens more often while rapid firing (?).

    I've have been using the longest, red spring.

    Before this issue came about, I was using the next-half-sized-up carrier. While pressurized, the gun was prone to leaking down the barrel. This leaking would stop when the trigger had some pressure on it - both before and after the gun shot. Power tube oil would fix the leak temporarily, but it would come back within a pod or two. I think even while using this leaky-sized carrier, the medium-sized spring was sometimes having trouble resetting the bolt.

    Is it accurate to label what I'm describing as bolt stick? What can I try to do to reduce this given I'm at the biggest carrier that doesnt leak and using the longest spring?

    Thanks so much!

  30. #2220
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    is your bolt spring old or worn out? is your grip frame screw too tight, or quickstrip screw too tight (or too loose)? it could cause the valve and body to be mis-aligned. double check that your rail bushing is in the rail. search the tech forum for bolt stick, if you haven't already. there are dozens of threads; you might be able to dig something up.

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