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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #271
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
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    2,851
    spawnboy
    take off the PMI reg. you dont need it, your just going to starve your valve of air. If you get a barrel leak, it usually means you need to go down a carrier. As Orge said, you need to use the same o'ring when you do this. Just try the 1.5 carrier with 2 shims and the long spring with that same o'ring(without the PMI reg). Before you gas up, back your velocity out so it doesnt fire, then slowly turn it up bit by bit till the marker fires reliably. Tell us how it goes.

    XxslayerxX
    what type of valve and settings?

  2. #272

    Havoc

    I don't have the original reg. This valve and reg were given to me and I have just added on.

    Went to a .5 carrier w/ 3 shims longest spring. Backed my output to 775 and back my velocity too. She works but still hard on the dollar.

    spawner
    Last edited by spawnboy; 11-19-2002 at 05:27 PM.
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  3. #273
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    Feb 2002
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    Texas
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    what do you mean? The valve IS a reg, you dont need anything else. You have a pic of your set-up?

  4. #274

    regnvalve

    It says Perfect Charger on it.
    I don't have a picture at this time that closley shows the valve.

    spawner

  5. #275
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
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    I see, I thought you meant a secondary reg.

    To get a soft hit, try what I said, 1.5 carrier with the long spring. Remember the hit is only soft in the first stage, it speeds up VERY fast.

  6. #276

    physics

    Explain what you mean when you say "first stage"?

    I'm trying to understand what is going on here. If my bolt is hitting hard with the spring with the most resistance then I should be able to slow down my bolt by.

    1. Slowing down my velocity.
    2. Turning down my output pressure from my tank.
    3. Putting on yet a smaller carrier which in turn puts more friction on the rod inside the bolt?
    4. Smash it against the floor and jump on it a few times.

    Are we there yet?

    spawner

  7. #277
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
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    The whole point of the level 10 is that it's a two speed bolt which goes slow in the first stage and fast in the second. This allows you to have the best of both worlds, be soft on paint yet not sacrifice ROF.
    1. Slowing down my velocity.
    you need to be able to fire at 280-300 or the marker isnt going to get you very far.
    2. Turning down my output pressure from my tank.
    the pressure is regulated before it goes into the dump chamber so all the last thing you want is to starve the valve of air.
    3. Putting on yet a smaller carrier which in turn puts more friction on the rod inside the bolt?
    OR you could just do what I said and use the biggest carrier that doesnt leak. Using a tighter carrier means you need more pressure to get past the friction which inturn means that by the time you do, the bolt is flying faster than it should be in the first stage.
    4. Smash it against the floor and jump on it a few times.
    Do that to any other type of marker, it usually works, dont worry- it's safe.

  8. #278
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Ft Myers, FL
    Posts
    2
    I have successfully installed the LVL10 in my AM Classic. There were no problems and adjustments were quickly made.

    A team member purchased a LVL10 for his RT. I assisted with the installation. Sizing and testing the o-ring carrier essentially the leaking stopped with the forth from the smallest. However, a very faint bubbling can be heard. This bubbling remains present even with the smallest carrier. We completed the installation, shimmed, springed and adjusted. It functions but the bubbling is still present after several thousand shots. It is only audible at the bolt end of the receiver.

    A further condition that has appeared is bleed down with rapid fire. Fire three or four rapid shots and the next is a blooper. This condition was not present prior to the LVL10 installation.

    Any insight?

  9. #279

    day 2

    Havoc:

    I followed your directions and have success. Due to lack of lube I have a small leak. I turned down my velocity and the bolt would barely move. I adjusted velocity to the point where the marker would shoot. I shot a ball and tested speed. It chronoed at 300. I put my squeege in and 3 out of 5 shot works but at times locks up on the squeege and a trigger pull (on my hyperframe) will not reset the bolt. I have to tug the squeege out of off the air. I currently have 3 shims in it.

    thanks,

    spawner

    P.s. as this set up wears in what can I expect to happen and what would I do to fix them.

  10. #280
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
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    Garry Nees
    could you tell me the settings, I assume 2 carrier but how many shims and what spring? Also, could you get your hands on some calipers? You could just have a bad o'ring, try using a new one and see if it still makes the sound. Loss of pressure could effect a lot.

    spawnboy
    Due to lack of lube I have a small leak.
    dont oil the carrier o'ring directly if you have a leak down the barrel when the marker is gassed up and is sitting there, it usually means you have to go down a carrier. Hence the famous line "use the biggest carrier that doesnt leak". If your getting bolt stick, throw in another shim and see if it does the trick.
    P.s. as this set up wears in what can I expect to happen and what would I do to fix them.
    Just dont bend your shims and basically all you have to worry about is breaking in your carrier o'ring, once that is done, your pretty much set. Since your going to go down a carrier size right now(which might be a tad tight), what you could expect once it's broken in is a lighter trigger pull and a softer hit not needing as much gas(if it starts leaking down the barrel again, you go down another carrier, probably wont happen for a long time if at all).

  11. #281
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Ft Myers, FL
    Posts
    2
    HAVOC

    As I recall the final configuration was two shims and the shortest spring. We'll be getting together this weekend and I'll check that. I did try the second o-ring supplied thinking there might be a minute blemish in the first. Yes, I have calipers available.

  12. #282
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,851
    Garry,
    Things to check. Make sure his bolt bumper is fine(as soon as that inner ring starts going, it's worthless). Does the bolt fit the body and barrel he's using? Use the cut spring with the cut side on bolt. Is the powertube tip coming loose? Are the shims bent? Are the black outer o'rings on the carrier in good shape, not cut from forcing them down? How much pressure are you putting into the valve? And finally (I doubt it's off) but make sure the bolt stem is the proper length(2.010").

  13. #283

    lvl 10

    i just installed my lvl 10 and everything seams to bein goin good. but i have a problem that i will shoot a hundred or so shots off and it starts to leak out of the back where you adjust the velocity..help me?

    BlackVCG: Turn down the velocity until it stops leaking. If it won't stop leaking at 300fps, then you need a new piston or try a shorter bolt spring.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 11-22-2002 at 08:00 PM.

  14. #284
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    South Metro Atlanta
    Posts
    1,565
    LeVeL 10 911 !!

    my set up..

    Brand New Emag *less then 3000 shots*

    I post in Tech already, and no help =[
    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=57039


    I just took it all out, and started over...

    2 Shems
    #2 Carrier w/ #2 O-Ring
    Med Spring ..

    LEAKS BAD down the barrel

    0 Shems
    #1.5 Carrier w/ #1.5 O-Ring
    LEAKS BAD down the barrel
    Med Spring, and Long Spring.. same results

    0 Shems
    #.5 Carrier w/ .5 O-Ring
    Long Spring, and Med Spring
    LEAKS BAD down the barrel


    o Shems
    #0 Carrier w/ 0 # O-Ring
    Long Spring, Med Spring
    LEAKS BAD down the barrel

    I am out of sizes to go...
    If I put the gun in M Mode, and hold the trigger the leaking stops *stops on every set up*
    I am lost....


    HELP ..

    BlackVCG: Try using a different o-ring. Also, make sure that you're installing the o-ring side of the carrier into the powertube first. Check to make sure there aren't any scratches on the bolt piston pin. Test the o-ring fit on the bolt piston. Make sure it's got good friction before you use that carrier size.


    RESPONCE:: The o-ring has good friction on the piston.. I can slide it, but it sticks on the bolt piston if I put it on and let it go.. so i's good friction.
    That's on the three smallest carriers..
    I have TWO sets of LX .. so I even tried using the other bolt... same deal..

    the LX kit is put in right, the o-ring side is in the powertube first.. the bold piston doesn't have scratchs...

    I will try all the o-rings for the inside of the carrier and let you know what happens.. thanks..


    PROBLEM FIXED!! It was the BACK WASHER ... I don't know what was wrong with it.. looked fine.. but I replaced it, and then the gun worked fine!!!!! so I need to order me some more.. I bet I dinged it up at the Tourny taking the carriers out so many times.. and I was kinda in a hurry..
    Last edited by boomerfoxtrot; 11-24-2002 at 08:07 PM.
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  15. #285
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    East Tennessee
    Posts
    12

    LVL 10 bolt

    I have a problem. My lvl 10 works great no leaks. If I try to rapid fire on my E-Mag the bolt stops as if there is a ball in the way but there is nothing there. if I keep it at about 11-12 bps it is fine. but any faster and the bolt stops about mid way. Any info would be great. Works fine and never stops w/ stock bolt.
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  16. #286
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    East Tennessee
    Posts
    12

    Also

    Also it only does it in strings not just a single shot. slow shooting and it never does it. Maybe the air system isn't recharging fast enough or maybe the tank pressure isn't high enough. The output is fixed at about 750. Does it need to be higher?

  17. #287
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
    Posts
    4,956
    Inviscid3- Try another tank with a higher output. Preferably one that you can adjust. I'll bet your air system isn't keep up at those speeds, so it starts slowing down and not putting out enough pressure to cycle the bolt.

  18. #288
    I already posted my problems in the Tech forum. So here is a link to it.

    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...265#post533265

    I believe that the only thing attributed to the lvl 10 is the build up on the 500 psi in the regulator that can't be released.

    Also the setup is: #2 carrier (I believe) w/ 2 shims and the medium spring.

    Zomby
    Last edited by Zombfyed; 11-23-2002 at 02:03 AM.

  19. #289
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    East Tennessee
    Posts
    12

    Thanx

    Thanks Blackvcg. I have a buddy that has an Armageddon so i may try it and if it works I may buy a Dynaflow. The hyperflow will be for sale if it works. Anyone interested let me know. The output is around 750 on it. Will give someone a good deal on trade or straight out. Again thanks!

  20. #290
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    North Reading, Mass
    Posts
    80
    I just installed my LX in my brand new RT PRO. I started with the #2 carrier with 2 shims and the smallest spring. At first it didn't even move so i turned up the velocity and it started to fire. Sometimes it would only half fire like twice then it would fully cycle. and it almost always had a small leak. i tried the next smallest carrier and it was too tight. How do i fix this partial fireing and the small leak. I loved the feeling of my first mag with the regular bolt. if i can get this to work.... oh lordy.
    99 LED Angel,
    Automag RT Pro; Level 10

  21. #291
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,851
    did you have a chrono handy? you are suposed to turn up the velocity till it fires reliably, try giving it a little more.

  22. #292
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    263
    i just installed my level 10 last night and here are the issues i'm having.

    Setup: RT valve, intelliframe, 1.0 carrier, med. spring, no shims.

    Problem: bolt only cycles for every other pull of the trigger. on a good string of shots (dry firing) it will cycle 3 times in a row and then feels like it's shortstroking. feels like the shootdown i would get with my old classic valve.

    Other than this problem it seems to be working fine. i haven't had time to mess with different shim combo's but i have been working with the springs and found the med. one to work best. I haven't shot paint yet or chronoed. I've also read this whole thread and haven't found much on my problem. Also, is it even the LX that's causing this? My valve didn't have this problem before.

  23. #293

    Question Old RT trigger stick

    I recently installed my LVL10 in my old RT. Now my trigger sticks. The reactive trigger is not working properly. Anyone else have this problem?

  24. #294
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
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    yllwsmrf, DrDGonzo both of you need to make sure your using the biggest carriers that dont leak along with the cut spring. keep turning your velocity up till your marker fires reliably.

  25. #295
    hey everyone im new to mags and i just bought my level 10!

    anyway... i wanna kno how to install it...i mean i kno how to dissassmle the marker n put the bolt on and everything...but this came with 3 springs and a lil baggy of parts....wut should i do with them?
    my mag =D

    68 automag classic
    sf hr body polished
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    LEVEL 10!!!!
    foregrip
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    68/3k nitro with nitro duck reg

    coming soon
    smoke AGD warp

  26. #296
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    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
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  27. #297

    lvl 10 problems`

    my level ten won't stop leaking on smallest carrier

    any ideas

    i get bad bolt stick too


    ahhahahahahahah

    help!!!!

  28. #298
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,851
    what are your settings and type of valve(that info helps)?

    Does the bolt fit in the body and barrel alright by itself?
    Try a new o'ring with a reasonable fit, nothing too tight. Make sure you install everything in the proper order.
    Make sure the black outer o'ring on the carrier is alright.
    Try it without shims first(and make sure they are not bent)
    If it still leaks, your bolt stem may be off.

  29. #299

    thanks havoc

    i have a retro emag valve


    its worked before but just starts to leak and leak

    could it be the valve


    ????????????

    ahahahhahaha

  30. #300
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,851
    well if your sure it's installed in the proper order and the black outer o'ring is fine then I'd say your bolt stem came loose and is off. If you look over this thread, you'll find instructions on fixing it, (you'll need some calipers and some red loc-tite) it should measure 2.010".

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