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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #391
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Albu-quer-que NM, wish I was in MA
    Posts
    1,441
    Originally posted by Havoc_online
    obsolete898 Your input and barrel are perfect(as long as the paint fits alright) the long spring is what's killing your effciency. It seems that the problem may lie in your boltstem being slightly off, changing the length of the lp stage. Still, 1-3 balls a game is way too much, how cold was it, did the paint fit the barrel ok? Plastic nubbins ok? I could take a look at it if you want. And your welcome- thank you's are always greatly appreciated.
    It was in the 40's, cold but no one else had problems. The paint was a little small for the barrel and I'm pretty sure the nubbins are good. I did notice yesterday that my foamie is gone that could be the problem, but it's always been this way. I'm thinking I'm just gonna send it to AGD, I'm just kinda upset it's gonna take so long.

  2. #392
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
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    Send your gun to Havoc. He'll do a good job and his turn around time is much quicker than AGD.

  3. #393
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    Mar 2002
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    Albu-quer-que NM, wish I was in MA
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    To late I already sent it to AGD 5 minutes ago.

    Thanx again for the offer Havoc, you've also been a great help.

  4. #394
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Eustis FL
    Posts
    88
    After almost finishing installing the LVL X bolt, i realize it wont let my valve completely go back in, wuts the deal?
    please help

  5. #395

    barrel

    Goodday.
    I am using the LvL10 with a 1.0 carrier, 2 shims and the shortest of the three springs that were in the kit.
    It works well but obviously is not the softest to the ball the LvL10 can get due to the weak spring. The thing is that the gun won't shoot or will leak through the back if I install a longer spring and adjust the velocity. With my barrel taken off (dye ultralite - old model though) the gun shoots fine even with the longest spring on. Puttin in a larger carrier will leak...
    The bolt does not seem to interfere with the barrel though as it did with some other guys in this forum (no scratchings or stuff).

    thnx for suggesting an explanation

    Once set up does the Lvl10 only work for that specific barrel you set it up with?

  6. #396
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Posts
    1,548
    I am currently working on my teammates Level 10 install, and I'm basically a little lost here. His setup is this:

    Classic RT, with a 800-900 psi preset output.

    Ok, we first tried the two ring carrier with two shims like Miscue's video suggests. That leaked out the front. We also turned the velocity up two full turns and used the long spring. So, since it leaked we switched to the medium spring first. It still leaked. Next, we tried going up with the two ring, one dot carrier, two shims, and the medium spring. Leak. Next we tried the one ring, one dot carrier with two shims and the medium spring. Suddenly, it worked just fine...no leaks anywhere, and when I put a squegee down the body it would stop and reset on the squegee everytime. So we thought the Level 10 was set up just fine and fired it several times. after maybe thirty or forty trigger pulls, there was a tiny hiss down and out the front. I thought it might be him having the internals not oiled properly, so he broke it down and oiled his insides. (Something it needed anyway.) Then, once it was put back together it leaked much more than before. We tried pulling both shims out next and it still leaks. Ay ideas of what's going on? Any advice will be tremendously appreciated since my next project will be putting my Level 10 on my Classic RT with a Hyperframe!!

  7. #397
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
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    Nitza take your bolt and see if it fits through the body alright, sometimes the body develops a burr that needs to be filed to allow the bolt room to fit.

    olopolorolo sounds like you need a new reg piston to get things to work with the longer springs. As for changing barrels, as long as the bolt fits in the barrel alright you should be fine. Problems mainly occur with small bore barrels.

    dre1919 Your on the right path, just use the 1.0 carrier and you should be fine.

    stay with 2shims and the cut spring.

  8. #398
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Eustis FL
    Posts
    88
    well
    on another fourm, it said to sand the bolt down..which i did, and it fits very nicely, but today i gassed up...and it wouldnt shoot..the bolt didnt even move..

  9. #399
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    Texas
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    You really shouldnt sand the bolt down too much, it's hollowed out as it is. I'd only polish the front end of the bolt and only if it didnt fit the barrel I had to use. Then again only after polishing the inside of the barrel and it still didnt fit.

    Try and make sure the entire bolt fits through the body washer alirght - If you didnt sand the bolt down evenly it may not work. If it gets hung up, file the body washer, not the bolt.

    If everything fits fine and the bolt still doesnt move then some things you could check...

    Does the trigger rod gas up? Has your trigger rod been adjusted? You need 1/16" of a gap behind the trigger to give the sear enough room to move.

    Is your input high enough? Is your velocity high enough?

    Is your carrier too tight?

  10. #400
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Eustis FL
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    i'm pretty sure is sanded evenly *me and my dad did it, hes very good with these kind of things*
    "trigger rod" gas up? i'm new to mags..
    well i coudlnt measure velocity do to the fact no paint was coming out..or the fact that nothing was moving..
    i dont think my carrier is too tight, could be tho..

  11. #401
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    Feb 2002
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    Texas
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    keep turning up your velocity adjuster till the marker fires.

  12. #402
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    Jun 2002
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    Eustis FL
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    how many turns should i be expected to turn it?

  13. #403
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    Feb 2002
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    Texas
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    depends, but it dont stop till it fires or vents out the adjuster hole.

  14. #404
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Lee's Summit, MO
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    I'll give that a shot tommorow when I get some more air. Thanks a lot bro, and, as always, you da man!

  15. #405
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    2,427
    According to some old (circa 1992) documentation (automag manual) the reg piston vents at 550psi. Anyone know at what pressure the ReTro reg pistons vent at (in early runs if ). Also if the new parts from AGD vent at a higher pressure to allow for easy level 10 setup?

    BlackVCG- The Retro piston should vent at the same pressure. I believe AGD is setting the vent pressure higher on all of their newer pistons, at least I hope so. The problem is there's a spring in there that holds a seal against the inside of the piston. When the pressure goes higher the force of the spring, it vents. Over time, that pressure weakens the spring and you get a piston that vents too soon with LX. Retro pistons you can't adjust, AIR valve pistons you can if you know how to break the loctite and torque the set screw without damaging the piston.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 01-17-2003 at 01:47 AM.

  16. #406
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    earth
    Posts
    15
    i have had my lvl 10 in for about 2500 rounds. everything worked like it should. then today i got a leak out of barrel. so i removed all of kit to restart.what i found was the little black o-ring on the outside of the carrier had a very small chip in it. i almost could not see it! i took a chunk out when i installed it because the fit was so tight. that was the problem. now no leak out of any part of gun!

  17. #407
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Pennsylvainia
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    96

    Another Level 10 problem please help or direct me

    I went to install my level 10 kit into my retro minimag. I finally got everything in the powertube and reinserted valve into body. I gas it up and it wont fire, instructions say turn velocity up. Turn up velocity about a quarter turn, still no firing, turn more, still no firing, turn more, gas leaks out both barrel and back of valve. Could someone please give some solutions to this problem or give me a link where this same question was already answered? Thanks very much.

    BlackVCG- What size carrier and how many shims are you using? What spring are you using? When you slide the bolt back and forth on the PT with the LX parts installed, do you feel friction on the bolt from the o-ring inside?
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 01-17-2003 at 01:49 AM.

  18. #408
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    195
    ok, i know its my level 10 and i think i have fixed it but i'm not sure because i have no air. but i have 2 shims and one carrier. i have it on the one line setting (not sure what they are called) before i had it on the dot and it was leaking. i put the 1 lined piece and it still leaked. my gun was leaking down the barrel and i chopped, i don't know why it was doing this because i changed it from the last setting because it was chopping also. thx

    Make sure you can feel some friction from the o-ring on the bolt stem. The lines indicate a full size and the dots indicate a half size. The more lines, the larger the size. Put the o-ring in one of the carriers and slide it back and forth on the bolt stem to make sure there's enough friction that it will seal. This will save you time from having to put the parts in, test it and take it all apart again. Remove the shims. They aren't needed unless you have problems with the bolt locking up on a ball and not retracting.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 01-17-2003 at 01:53 AM.
    Rockin the red dye trix

    my feedback - http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...21#post1057221

  19. #409
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Saukville Wi
    Posts
    3,124
    I don't think I have a problem but maybe i do? Well I can't get the lvl10 to work with either of the two larger springs without the velocity leaking. This isn't a problem, i'm running the 2nd smallest carrier and 2 shims with the smallest spring... no leaks but when i degass the rest of the pressure will leak out the bolt which is good since i don't have a bleed valve but not sure if this is a problem? I unloaded some year old paint (****ty stuff) and i could hear it misfeeding from my warp and pinching fine so i'm just assuming it is working good

    i just need a chrono now.....

    question is: Is the leaking down the barrel after degassing normal? I hope so because it works well
    Taking a long needed leave of the sport to finish school and tour the country

    b2k3w/pds, vaporized, vapor valve, aka sidewinder, chaos chip, palmer rock lpr, CP barrels, 68/45 hyperflow

    B2k3 w/pds and bunch of upgrades for sale

  20. #410
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
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    You need a new piston to make it work with the larger springs.

    Make sure you're using the loosest carrier that doesn't leak. The looser the fit, the lower the operating pressure and the less breaks and higher efficiency you'll get.

  21. #411
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Saukville Wi
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    3,124
    Yeah I have it set up correctly. The 0 carrier is the smallest and the only one that doesn't leak.... even the .5 leaks a great deal....

  22. #412
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Rio Oso, California, United States
    Posts
    172

    Level 10 Bolt plunger came apart

    I have a Level 10 Bolt where the small part of the plunger came out and went down my power tube.
    I would like to know what I should use to "glue" it in when I tap it back in. I had a replacement bolt which did the same thing but I just tapped it back in to get me through the day. JB Weld, Locktite or what?
    I have done a search and could not find a thread about this.

    Thanks,
    R

  23. #413
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Decatur, AL USA
    Posts
    6,772
    I used some permanent locktite and to glue it back in. after you put in in as far as you can by hand, put a peice of leather, or something similiar, on top and tap it a few times with a hammer to make sure it's seated. I did this with my first level 10 bolt and it's still going strong.

  24. #414
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Rio Oso, California, United States
    Posts
    172
    Thanks a lot for the help.

    R

  25. #415
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ft worth, TX
    Posts
    102
    just installed my lvl 10 on my x valve had a little trouble but i think i got it i put the carrier with 1 groove in it with 2 shimms and with the medium spring it shoots ok but i think i can make it better also when i pull the trigger i hear gas leaking any ideas? also i have my pressure at about 900 on my flatline and it doesnt seem that reactive any help would be great thanx
    -matt-

  26. #416
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,851
    you need to chrono. where is the leak coming from? Down the barrel I assume, make sure the black outer o'ring on the carrier is in good shape. If so, go down a size in carriers and finish breaking in that o'ring.

  27. #417
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ft worth, TX
    Posts
    102
    would down a size be the carrier no grooves in it?

  28. #418
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    Oct 2000
    Location
    Saukville Wi
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    3,124
    size down would be no lines and 1 dot which is the .5 carrier

  29. #419
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ft worth, TX
    Posts
    102
    alright thanks

  30. #420
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    315

    little ditty

    More of a foamie problem than a level ten problem. I keep shooting the darn things out. The one that came on the gun shot out 3 weeks ago. I put a replacement on with hard epoxy the next day. Lost it again last weekend. What am I doing wrong? I scored the bolt face, and the epoxy remained on the bolt itself, apparently the foamie didn't adhere properly. Thanks!

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