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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #121
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    AKA..."DoobieWang"...West Point, NY
    Posts
    1,230
    Keep going down in size with the carriers until it does not leak. It sounds like you are using a big carrier and the air is venting around the bolt stem.

    The gun is 1/8" of a game that is a FOOT long!
    (...but a 'mag helps)
    I know I was born and I know that I'll die...the in between is mine. -Eddie Vedder
    Sinister Sainthood

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Nebraska
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    44
    Hello,
    It's been a while since I've posted, but I just recently recieved my level ten. I first installed it with 2.0 carrier, 2 shims and long spring. It leaked bad. So I put in the 1.5 carrier and it didn't leak, but it wouldn't shoot either. I decided maybe it was the spring, so I went down to the medium spring and it leaked down the barrel, and still wouldn't shoot. I will keep trying different combos but I just thought that maybe someone has had the same problem, can offer advice and save me some time and air. Thanx

    BlackVCG: Are you turning up the velocity to get it to shoot with the longer springs? You have to turn it up at least one to two full turns to get it working with the long gray springs.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 08-29-2002 at 11:46 PM.
    -Slik

  3. #123
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Kelso, WA
    Posts
    104

    strange problem

    I can't seem to fire the mag when the barrel is on but if I take off the barrel the mag fires fine. I tried different springs but that hasn't helped then I checked to see if the bolt is too tight in the barrel but it fits fine outside of the gun. I'm stumped why the bolt seems to get stuck on the barrel. Need some serious help, thanks. Setup is old valve in a minimag with 1.0 carrier and currently long spring.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    44
    Well I got it working, thanks blackVCG. Kind of weird though I am having the exact same problem as Gijim. It shoots great with the barrel off. When the barrel is on though, it seems as if the barrel is in the way of the bolt. What should I do???

    Oh by the way I am using the 1.0 carrier, 2 shims, and the long spring.

    BlackVCG: What kind of barrel are you using? I've seen this problem happen with a 32 Degrees Carbon Fiber barrel. It can happen with any barrel if it's drilled off center.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 08-31-2002 at 12:55 AM.

  5. #125

    Re: leakin

    Originally posted by tylerdurden1803
    Just installed my Level 10 and I've gotta problem. I've got the middle spring in with two shims in and the carrier with 3 rings, NO dots. When I turn the air on (Maxflow), it will leak(not alot, not a little) then when I pull the trigger it shoots but then it starts leaking ALOT. Any suggestions? Thanks for any replies.

    BlackVCG: Using the same white carrier o-ring put it in the 2.5 spacer (Two rings and three dots) and try that. Put the o-ring on the carrier and slide it onto the bolt stem to get a feel for the fit of the o-ring on the stem. It should be fairly snug. If it leaks no matter what carrier you use, remove shims until it stops leaking.
    I did as you said and now its leakin out the back. It was leakin from the front a little too. Take shims out? Change carrier? I took out one shim already so theres only one in there. Thanks for any replies.

    BlackVCG: Okay, so you went to the 2.5 carrier right? If it started leaking out the back then turn it down to the point that it stops leaking and check the velocity. Be sure to fire it a few times while you're turning down the velocity. If you can't get the velocity you want and it's not leaking down the barrel, then get a new piston and it will be fine.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 08-31-2002 at 12:54 AM.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    CUB NATION!!!!
    Posts
    2,869

    installing

    ok, i posted this on tech, but i doin it here to. there is metal in my power tube, it looks like a washer, but i cant get it out. it is about 1/2 inch down the tube. it is not the spacer, or spring, i took those out. is this thing suposed to stay in?

    BlackVCG: Yes, that's a washer that is part of the PT and is suppose to be in there to keep the o-ring from being shoved all the way down in. With LVL 10 it keeps the white washer from dropping down into the air chamber.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 09-02-2002 at 03:26 PM.
    bless, support, and never forget the troops
    God bless my cousin: Cprl. Peter J. Giannopoulos K.I.A. 11/11/04 in Latifiyah, Babil Provence, Iraq.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North Idaho
    Posts
    83

    Question Intermittent issue

    Hello all,

    I've been running Lvl 10 in my 'mag for about a month now. I've put somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 cases through it in that time, playing woodsball. I've scanned most of this thread and I didn't see anyone else having the same issue as I seem to be encounterring.

    Setup: 68 classic with standard valve. 2.0 carrier, middle spring, 3 shims. 'Mag is running on HPA and shooting around 280 FPS with this configuration. I'm running a J&J ceramic for larger bore paints (mine seems to have about the same bore size as a crown point barrel) and a Lapco Autospirit or Bigshot for smaller bore paints. As for oiling the valve, I put in 5-6 drops before every day of play.

    Problem: During my initial setup of lvl 10, I installed the 1.5 carrier, middle spring and 2 shims. This seemed to work fine...for a bit...At some point, I started shooting small bore paint thru the J&J. Actually, it was mixed bore paint...some small, some medium. Occassionally, the marker would act as though it had pinched a ball, giving the 'pfffttt' sound and resting. After it reset, however, I could not get the thing to actually fire...It would just vent and reset. Pulling the barrel off revealed it had actually pushed 2 balls into the barrel. After clearing the barrel of balls, most times, I could get the marker to fire again but sometimes it would just vent/reset, even when there wasn't an extra ball in the barrel. So I'm thinking to myself, "Ok, I guess we'll just make sure we have proper barrel/paint match at all times." As it turns out, I still have this problem intermittently, even when running with a decent barrel/paint match. It seems to happen later in the day, after about 1/2 case of shooting, rather than early in the morning/at start of play.

    Things I've tried: Since it would still vent/reset at inappropriate times, I tried to tune in my lvl 10 a little better. I first switched to the shortest spring. This seemed to work at first, but later in the day, I had the same problem. The next thing I tried was adding a shim since I had read that adding shims causes the bolt to vent earlier on in the cycle. I figured that might cause the bolt to vent and not push 2 balls into the barrel. This didn't seem to help with the middle or the short springs. Just recently, I moved to the 2.0 carrier from the 1.5 carrier. The 2.0 doesn't leak, so I figured I'd have reduced friction, making things run a little smoother. I haven't tried the 2.0 carrier with the short spring but when used with the middle spring, I made it thru most of the day yesterday without any problems...I did, however, loan my 'mag out to a friend at the end of the day and it started acting up again. This time it was with an Autospirit barrel running Blaze paint. This leads me to believe that it is not a problem with a specific barrel, i.e. the J&J. I've also read that some people are having problems getting their 'mags to fire at the chrono due to loose barrels. When I was cleaning my 'mag after yesterday's outing, I did tighten the twist lock assembly slightly. My barrels fit slightly more tightly now. I didn't, however, consider the play they had before to be excessive. I have not had a chance to play since I screwed in the twist lock, so I'm not sure if that solved the problem.

    Does anyone have any ideas on what the issue is? I'm sure I've missed something obvious...

    Thanks for the help!
    Are you gonna bark all day little doggie........Or are you gonna bite?

    ___
    Good traders: vf-xx, chris007, Prezents, Sgt. York

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
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    4,956
    Magaholic-

    Thanks for the detailed information. It really helps me to figure out your problem.

    The first thing I noticed is that all of your barrels are a bit on the small side. The JJ Ceramic usually runs about .687" and the Autospirits are about .686-7". I know you said the JJ seems to be the size of a Crownpoint, but have you actually measured the bore? Try sliding the bolt into the barrel. If you feel resistance, you need to smooth out the tip of the bolt since it's a bit oversized to prevent blowback.

    If you have dial calipers, measure the distance from the tip of the bolt to the stem sticking out the back of the valve. The overall length should be 2.010".

    Also, what kind of gripframe are you using on the gun and what is your input pressure?

    Just give me that info and I should be able to figure out the problem for you.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North Idaho
    Posts
    83

    More info

    I will check the bolt/barrel fit when I can.

    As for the other info, I'm using an intelliframe (blade) and for air, I've got a 45ci/4500 ACI bulldog II with 800psi fixed output pressure.

    As for actually measuring the bore of my barrels...I haven't done that. (And I'm pretty sure I don't have access to the proper tools to do it.) I do know the paint that fits the J&J nicely (properly) also fits the crown point nicely. That's why I feel they are about the same size. As for the Autospirit...I haven't used that barrel much since I picked it up. I've been running the Bigshot primarily since the paint I've been using was a little big for the Autospirit.

    Thanks again and I'll post later with the bolt/barrel fit...

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North Idaho
    Posts
    83

    Bolt/barrel fit and bolt length

    I checked the length of the bolt and it is indeed 2.010".

    The bolt slid easily, without any resistance, into the J&J ceramic barrel. When I tried the Autospirit, I did feel a surprising amount of resistance. My question is, then:

    If I need to sand down the tip of the bolt slightly, what is the best way to go about doing that?

    Your help is very much appreciated!

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
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    4,956
    Don't use your Autospirit unless you sand down the outer casing of the bolt up towards the tip. You'll see the seam about 1/4" back from the tip and just in front of the seam you'll see the bolt is has a slightly raised area. Sand down that part all around the circumference of the bolt to reduce the O.D. and make it fit your AS better.

    I'll bet your problem was due to having too tight of a carrier and it worked better when you switched it out, but since it was in the Autospirit when you made the switch, it still had a problem with the bore being too tight.

    Also, what kind of oil are you using?

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North Idaho
    Posts
    83
    I'm currently using Gold Cup oil. I'll take a look at sanding the bolt down a little before I use the Autospirit again. (Shouldn't be for a few weeks, anyway....The paint I have now is too large for the Autospirit and it'll take some time to use it up...)

    Thanks for all the help!

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
    Posts
    4,956
    Try using the blue KC Oil if you can get it. With a high performance setup like LX, you really can see the benefit from using a high performance oil like KC.

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    528
    Originally posted by BlackVCG
    Try using the blue KC Oil if you can get it. With a high performance setup like LX, you really can see the benefit from using a high performance oil like KC.
    I'm surprised you would reccomend KC Oil when AGD's own Autolube is just Gold Cup repackaged.

    Ogre
    Seeg images? Vee don' need no steenkin' seeg images?!?

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
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    4,956
    I'm well aware of that. Just because AGD puts it with there guns doesn't mean I like it or it's actually a good oil. The way I see it, it's a decent oil, but it drys out o-rings and discolors them. KC is the superior oil. RobAGD and I both use nothing but KC and I know Rob has yet to replace any o-rings in his RT, which he's had since 1996. We're working on getting Tom to switch to KC oils, but there is a big price difference.

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Brooklyn, NY
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    528
    Now see what you done?



    I am going to have to go and get KC Oil after I ordered and received 2 tubes of Aotolube for me and a friend. Damn.

    Oh well. Paintball is an expensive sport and if it means better use of my RT, I'll make the investment. What's a good place to get it? My friend ordered a bottle from I and I Sports some 3 weeks ago and he is still waiting for it.

    Ogre

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
    Posts
    4,956
    Here's a list of dealers that sell KC Oils. I can get it at a few local stores for about $5 a bottle. One bottle will easily last a year or so.

    http://www.kercon.com/dealerlocator.htm

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    100
    sigh i finally get my lvl 10 in and i cant seem get it to work correctly...

    alright im using an rtpro input pressure @950 (if that makes a difference)


    Following the instructions on the site I started with the carrier with 2 grooves on it and no dots.. LEAKED HEAVILY from barrel.. (im talking a 100 psi/a sec).. assuming it was the described barrel leak i upped the velocity hoping it would stop. It actually seemed to get worse right up until the point wher air came out of the back of the gun..
    now down to 2500 psi .. i figured it was the wrong carrier... same situation now 2200 psi... went to the 1.5 carrier which very snug on the back of the bolt and got same result yay 1800psi... convinced now that it wasnt the carrier but either the spring and/or shims i began to try diffferent combinations to no avail... i put back in the non lvl 10 componants just to make sure it was the kit and not my gun and my gun worked as normal...
    *note i did the thing where you install the lvl10 with no shims and push on the bolt face while its leaking to hear if it changes tone.. and it didnt change at all

    So basicaly facts are:
    pretty sure I have the carrier picked right (the one wiht one solid line and no dots)

    Heavy venting from barrel..... about 100 psi a sec..

    No change in springs or increase in velocity made the leak stop or even slow (unless you count when the velocity went up enought to make it vent out back of gun instead of front

    gun works fine with Non lvl 10 parts...

    I am having the exact same problem as demonguy and lilfroboy. I installed the LX in my retro valve and it began to work after finding the right carrier (1.5) that worked. However, after about 40 shots it just vented air out of the barrel at a VERY fast rate, quickly bleeding my air off. So today I got a fill and it did the same huge leak thing. I switched carriers about 5 times, tried shims, no shims, spring size, etc. Nothing worked, still just vented out barrel, but stopped when I pulled trigger (didnt shoot, though). Having almost run out of air, I put the original assembly in and it worked fine. I had an extra co2 tank, so I installed LX on my classic valve. It did the same thing, venting out barrel at very high rate. Again I went through, trying all possible combinations of carriers, shims, springs, to no avail. (Yes, I tried raising, lowering velo., didnt do anything)

    Please help, or send me to someone who can help. I don't live near anyone with much knowledge about LX, so I doubt anyone nearby can fix this. Thanks.

    BlackVCG: Measure the bolt pin length. Use dial calipers and measure from the tip of the bolt to the tip of the pin sticking out the back. It should be 2.010". Also, is the nylon backing washer in place and are you installing the carrier with the o-ring side first? Test fit the o-ring and carrier on the bolt pin before you install it to make sure it has a good friction fit to it. If it doesn't try going down in carrier sizes. If none of the carriers get the o-ring tight on the bolt, then try a new o-ring since they all differ in size.

    LittleJP: Haven't gotten home (from school) yet to measure bolt pin, but I was using the backing washer and the oring/carrier combination (carrier 1.0) was getting a good friction fit for me

    BlackVCG: Does your carrier have the black o-ring on the outside and is it in good condition? Are you installing the carrier with the o-ring side pointed towards the back of the valve? Are you using any shims?

    LittleJP: I have tried with and w/o shims. black oring looks fine. I am installing everything in the right orientation. This leads me to believe the bolt pin IS the problem, which i will verify tonight.
    Last edited by LittleJP; 09-12-2002 at 08:39 PM.
    Fear The 'Fro

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    206

    Help

    Hey. I just installed the LvL. 10 but have not been able to shoot paint out of it. I put my squegee in it to test and it fires and works fine, but seems a tad bit hard. I've tried adding more shims and am at the .5 carrier. The 0 carrier does not let the marker fire. Any ideas?

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,851
    shims dont change how hard the bolt is, only the ponit that the bolt can release pressure, just leave 2.

    the object is to use the BIGGEST carrier that doesnt leak, not the samllest that fires

    hope this helps.

  21. #141
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    206

    THANKS

    that helps alot. I thought I wanted the smallest that fired. Thanks

  22. #142
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    11

    Skeptic

    HMM i use a automag classic and i was thinking about bying a lvl 10. But looking at this page and all the problems i just want to know if its worth it?

  23. #143
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Townsville
    Posts
    3

    level 10 going well

    Ha Guy's and Gal's,

    I got my level 10 the other day, no instructions came with the bolt but it didn't mater. I spent 2 hours in this site reading all the postings from people who have already installed a level 10, i took there advice and in 5 minutes my mag was running great.not 1 probem so far.

    Thanks everyone for your help, i made the installation of the bolt so eazy.

    WAH11

  24. #144
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Yellowknife
    Posts
    517

    Re: Skeptic

    Originally posted by k9hero
    HMM i use a automag classic and i was thinking about bying a lvl 10. But looking at this page and all the problems i just want to know if its worth it?

    worth every cent and every minute

  25. #145
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    213
    OK, got my Level 10 in for my SFL and went to install it and the bolt will not fit, it gets hung up on the stainless insert on the mainbody. Now, it appears that it has developed a bit of a lip, but before I break out the ole' wood rasp and go to hacking away, I was looking for some input from some folks. I read some post earlier about some similar things but do not recall anything concerning SFL's. So would it be best to sand down the insert, since it seems that the lip would have developed as a result of bolt motion over time?

    Any input is greatly appreciated.
    That which does not kill us, cripples us for life.

  26. #146
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    Texas
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    the SFL needs a different sized bolt.(I'm pretty sure, anyway)

  27. #147
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    North Plains, OR
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    4,956
    The SFL needs a larger bolt than the stock LX bolt. If you got the SFL bolt from AGD, then you have the right bolt and just need to smooth out the SS insert to get it to fit.

  28. #148
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    213
    Yup, I got the level 10 kit from AGD, well I guess I will have to give that a go then, thanx for the info Black

    BlackVCG: Yes, but did you specify that you needed an SFL bolt? If you didn't then you need to get the real SFL bolt. The difference is the tip is larger so it has less blowback.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 09-11-2002 at 07:07 PM.

  29. #149

    Unhappy LVL 10

    My level ten works great

    but when i get to about 800 to 900 psi left on my tank gauge

    it stops working

    what should i do??

    any feedback would be great

    thanks

    will

  30. #150
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Warner Robins Georgia
    Posts
    395
    nothing, its what its supposed to do, it needs alot of psi to opperated thats why you turn up your velocit to let more air in to power the LvL 10


    "Hey its the new transparent aluminum gun!! Must be light because you cant see it!" ------AGD

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