** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[lillfroboy]

is it the bolt sticking or what we need exact details

[Moats]

It is the sear and pin not coming back out, so the gun can not shoot.

[Snewk]

I got level 10 installed, Automag Classic. Used 1.5 carrier, long spring, 2 shims it works...but. When I short stroke on purpose it doesnt fire, but when I shoot it properly after short stroking and it vents, two balls shoot out.

BlackVCG: Sounds like your gun is on the threshold of working/not working. Try turning up the velocity a bit or going one size larger on the carrier. Also, stick your finger in up close to the bolt and hold it there. If it hits your finger and doesn't vent, then add shims until it does.

I can stick a barrel cleaner in the breech and it vents properly, just after that it shoots out two balls.

BlackVCG: Replace your nubbins with new ones. If you're using metal nubbins, get the plastic ones.

10-4 good buddy.

[lillfroboy]

take it apart and make sure its in correctly or you can call agd for more info

[jerminator]

i am using mm11859 the number 2 carrier 2 shims and the shortest spring it works great but if i turn up my velocity anymore it vents out the back im not sure if i should replace my reg piston or try changing the pieces i use in the level ten
i am also using a pure energy 4500psi 68cu tank any help would be greatly appreciated

BlackVCG: You need a new reg. piston. If you're going to be at the Ballahpalooza tournament at the Washington County Fairgrounds, I'll be there and can help you out.


where is that exactly and when ????
and would it be wise to change my spring back to

[lillfroboy]

Moats, What I Think It Is, Is The Bolt Sticking So The Gun Can't Cock If The Bolt Isn't In Firing Posintion ( Just Assuming)

[emile518]

I have an older mag built around 1993 and when I installed the Level 10 upgrade I had the same problem. After replacing the REG PISTON and SPRING PACK I could turn the velocity all the way up to like 375(just for testing) using the middle spring. This will allow you to use any spring, even the longest without venting.

[Jason Reed]

i am having snews problem also.

[Restola]

Here is a problem I had that seemed perplexing, but was amazingly easy to fix.

I installed level 10, everything seemed to be working fine. But if I didn't shoot for 10-15 seconds the first shot would just "pffft" and half-shoot. I figured it was leaking, but I listened VERY hard and nothing, I shifted around the barrel, nothing. Finally I just put the next smaller carrier in (1.5) even though it seemed too tight. Worked PERFECTLY all day for 2000 rds.

[PsychoMag]

I have rebuilt my Emag several times with the LX upgrade. I have it set very sweet as I am told, pretty gentle on the finger etc...

My problem is when I go to manual mode, the gun doesnt fire. It wants to, but just doesnt. Seems like the pull isnt long enough to release the bolt, yet in Emode it is the sweetest thing on the market.

What do I do?

BlackVCG: Are you using one of Timmy's blade triggers? If so, that's your problem and the only way to fix it is put back the stock double trigger. If you're using the stock trigger, then make sure that the trigger rod is 2.125".

PsychoMag: I hav the stock trigger on it since I believe in 100%genuine AGD parts, but I will check the measurement of the rod length tomorrow. Thanks for the response

[Bartleby]

I'm sorry to say i am in a bit of a bind. I don't have time to read all the posts on this thread looking for my specific problem, but i type real fast so i figure just post it and run. Here's the scoop:

I have a small leak out the back. It was not there before i installed level 10, and did not begin to leak untill i increased the velocity to bring the fps to 250. At this setting, i get a very slight leak out the back of the valve, when i turn the velocity down, the leak stops untill i fire a few times at whcih point the leak starts up again. I'm not sure if this is actually from level 10 or just from an o-ring in the original valve. by the way, the valve is just a normal 68 Automag valve. Everything is original with the exception of level 10.

Thanks for your help. And once again, i'm sorry if someone has already presented this problem.

BlackVCG: You need a new piston. It's venting out the back due to the increased pressure needed to operate the gun with LVL 10.

[Skweegi]

First off thanks for being about the only manufacturer to be this aggressive in communicating with and helping their customers. That is sorely appreciated.

I have a Centerfeed RT Pro with a Centerflag Hyperframe. I installed the L10 no problem following the directions. My problem is that the bolt is tearing through the anodizing on the inside of my barrels.

I closely inspected the bolt and did not see any obvious protrusions, burrs, etc. The barrel in the picture is a Smart Parts All-American Teardrop .690 so I know its not the smallest internal diameter barrel around. I am scared to think what would happen with a .686 barrel.

The picture is the least blurry i can seem to muster with the cheap crackerjack camera I got. You can see the silver streak though, it has never developed anything of this nature using regular bolts.

Please advise. Thanks

Matt Falbe
NE Hurricanes
AKA Fish
AKA Skweegi

AGD: switch to your stock barrel and see if the problem persists. Also make sure you put the cut end of the mainspring toward the back of the bolt.

[ogre55]

Please help.

I shoot an RT Classic

I just installed, or tried to install, level 10. No matter what I do the gun leaks both through the barrell and out the back. I tried everything I know how. Changed the velocity. Installed 2 shims, one shim, no shims. Tried all the various carriers.

Still no luck.

Then, out of frustration, I installed my level 7 parts back and it worked like a charm. Chopped one ball all day and that was when I showed off to a friend how fast the gun can shoot. (He was complaining that someone was shooting FA because of how fast they were shooting and I had to show him just how fast one can shoot a semi.)

Thanks in advance.

Ogre
AGD: you need a new reg piston we have them in the store.

[Potatoboy]

A bit of an update.

After finally having access to my tank again I gassed up the classic with the medium spring, and the proper carrier for the bolt.

It fired!
I don't have a chrono, but it looks like less than 280 just by the trajectory of the ball.

Screwing the velocity nut in anymore causes the pressure relief to vent.

[spyder3634]

ok, maybe this has been answered by someone, if it has then it should be an easy fix.

i have LX in my emag, it worked fine for a while, but now it just shoots like a regular emag. today my friend who doesnt even play chopped one with it. basically, i have all the LX internals in but it still shoots like it used to before i got LX. any help would be great. thanks

AGD: we cant help you unless you give us all the specifics of what exactly is installed in your gun.

Spyder3634: ok, i have 1.5 carrier, 2 shims, any spring it does the same thing, i think thats all you need. i have to go work right now but if you need for more info i will post later.

[RILEY]

I have a mag with a powerfeed body, retro valve , and a hyperframe and i resently put in my level 10 and installed as the directions from online told me to do.Then when i tried all the springs it came with and the gun wouldnt fire with any of them. So i put my original spring back on and the gun and it finally fired but the problem i have is that when i shoot it and then stop shooting usually the bolt will stick but the bolt never sticks when i am shooting rapidly and i always oil it before i play so if anyone has any ideas for me i am open to suggestions.
thxs alot joe

BlackVCG: Are you turning up the velocity to get it to work with the longer springs? You have to turn it up about 2 full turns to get it to work with the longest spring.

[ogre55]

In an earlier post Tom suggested that for those us us running a lvl 10 with a hardline, rather than a screw in tank, we should use a degassing fitting to degass the gun as it is impossible to shoot it down due to the "cork effect" of the lvl 10.

I have scoured the net for degassing fitting but to no avail. Can anyone suggest a brand/supplier. I checked the online store and have not found any.

Ogre

[krafty]

Ogre,

put a slide-check in-line downstream of your reg.

[sinman02]

I had my level 10 installed by a "professional" at a pro shop on my automag RT. After the install I could not get the gun to fire above 250 on the chrono. When I tried to increase the velocity, the gun started to vent out the back. I took the gun apart myself and examined the carrier and found that the fit was a bit too snug so I replaced it with the next larger one. I have the "middle" spring just slightly longer than the stock and the air pressure was at around 800-850 psi. I also have 2 shims with no apparent leaks from the barrel. I couldn't chrono it at that point since I don't have a personal chrono, but could the reason the gun chrono'ed so low be because the carrier ring was too tight? Does the length of the spring have an effect on ball velocity? Will going with a shorter spring make the velocity higher?

BlackVCG: Shorter springs will allow the gun to start shooting at a lower velocity, but the bolt force is greater. If you plan on shooting 280-300fps use one of the gray springs because they'll start shooting just before that velocity range and be the most gentle on paint.

If the carrier o-ring is too tight, it will require excess pressure in the valve to get the bolt moving. This might make the gun vent too soon. If you get to the point that the next size up carrier from what you're using makes it leak and you still can't get the velocity you want, get a new piston because it will be set for a higher blow-off pressure.

[Duke Henry]

Probably has, I likely missed it.

Anyway, I picked up a Level 10 kit and have tried to install it in my new RT PRO.

I am using the 1.0 carrier, longest spring, and two shims. Anyway, I air it up (750 PSI) and there are no leaks, which is a GOOD thing. However, when I pull the trigger nothing happens.

The piston for the RT is strong, it comes right back and pushes the trigger back for me, but nothing happens when I shoot. I was shooting 270 FPS, and so I imagine my velocity is quite weak now with the long bolt. Should I just crank up my velocity? Thanks

[Havoc_online]

you need more air to the gun at least 800 but 850 is better. yes you will have to turn up the velocity but you still need more air.

[Duke Henry]

O.K., I cranked up my output pressure to around 850-875 PSI. Gun still airs up, with no leaks but pulling the trigger does nothing either.

I turned the velocity screw to up the velocity quite a bit, but without me being able to cycle it (and therefore chrony it) I have no idea what it is shooting at. I did turn it up HIGH though, almost a complete half turn.

Any other ideas?

[Havoc_online]

it will take way more than a half a turn, keep going. it should be close to the point where it bleeds out the back.

[Duke Henry]

Alright, I cranked the velocity up QUITE A BIT, about 3 full turns but I noticed no change. Problem is, that I noticed that my tank is not outputting more than 800 PSI anymore, since my tank is too low.

So, I will get a refill Tuesday and try again. Thanks

[BajaBoy]

sounds like your carrier is to tight

[lillfroboy]

yep sounds like your carrier is to tight, i got the same problem, so and i have just given up on trying to put the lvl 10 on my gun, i even wrote all the combonations that i have tried on paper and have done each at least 10 times (literally)it has pissed me off so much, but any way i had the same prob, i get it to stop venting out the barrel, but i crank up the velocity till i can't screw it any more and it doesnt work, so i got to the next smaller carrier and it vents out the back so i turn the velocity down till it stops venting out the back and then it vents down the barrel, i turn the velocity up till it stops completly and it doesnt fire so i turn it up just a tiny tiny bit and i can here the bolt trying to move so i oil it and it will shot maybe about 5 shots then leak down the barrel, and by this time im so pissed off i want to throw my mag away so i quit that day, man the first day i got it i was working on it for 24 hours strait (i ate 3 times) so i have given up on the "Incredible LvL 10" and Envy the peoples who "incredible LvL 10" works on their guns

[Duke Henry]

I made some progress today - sort of. I got a fill, and proceeded to go back to the beginning and just get the carrier in and air the gun up with the stock spring.

No shims in at all. Slapped the stuff in there, and actually got it shooting, but after about 10 shots it started pouring out of the barrel. Tried a few other things but again I ran out of air.

I will probably not be able to get another fill until the weekend, so I will a person who has already slapped in a LX to help me while I continue the process.

Man, I need to get me a SCUBA tank...

[Edit: I rechecked my carrier, and I truly do think it is the best one. I also was able to get the air to blow out of the back of the gun, so I am confident I can figure this out...with a bit of time!]

[Havoc_online]

if it leaks down the barrel, the carrier may be too big, the object is to use the biggest one that doesnt leak(by the time you break in the o'ring, you may have to goto one size smaller).

As far as shims, some ppl have none but if your bolt sticks on a ball and can't bleed the pressure, you know what to do(2 shims usually works best)

Getting the air to blow out the back of the gun isnt really a good thing, just set your velocity low enough so that it doesnt leak air out but high enough that it fires reliably(till you get a chance to chrono)

[Duke Henry]

For sure, I will change carriers if I continue to get a leak down the barrel. However, I have a feeling I am getting the leak since my tank is low.

Until I had my velocity up high enough to "overflow", pulling the trigger did nothing. Now, it actually does. This I like...

When I have a large supply of air (i.e. SCUBA this weekend) I will be able to get this thing hammered out.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

[tylerdurden1803]

Just installed my Level 10 and I've gotta problem. I've got the middle spring in with two shims in and the carrier with 3 rings, NO dots. When I turn the air on (Maxflow), it will leak(not alot, not a little) then when I pull the trigger it shoots but then it starts leaking ALOT. Any suggestions? Thanks for any replies.

BlackVCG: Using the same white carrier o-ring put it in the 2.5 spacer (Two rings and three dots) and try that. Put the o-ring on the carrier and slide it onto the bolt stem to get a feel for the fit of the o-ring on the stem. It should be fairly snug. If it leaks no matter what carrier you use, remove shims until it stops leaking.