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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #31
    Ok I put in about 800psi into the gun and setup my mag according to the instructions but my bolt won't move when I fire the gun. When I put in a loose carrier it leaks like the instructions said and when I hold down the trigger it stops....i've messed with the springs and made sure the carrier wasn't too tight...it just won't fire the bolt whats going on?!



    -Voodoo

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    493
    No expert on this, but have you tried turning up the velocity?

    I believe many have had to turn their velocity up, more so than normal, for the marker to fire with the lvl 10 kit.

  3. #33
    Well I took apart my gun and looked at what might have caused it...and well...let me just say that the only main spring that worked in my kit was the small one that came attached to the bolt...after I had my gun shooting at 280...the other two main springs wouldn't fire. I can't really say how I fixed my problem..but it wasn't velocity, I had it way up. After putting oil in it, made sure the carrier O-ring fit properly and tossed in two shims it started to barely more forward...I then cranked my velocity back up and it started shooting..but I think the bolt could be tuned to be slightly lighter on paint. What the problem may have been was just stupidity on my part and I had one of the grey main springs on in the first place.

  4. #34

    Help! maybe I'm just missing something

    I'm using:
    Classic Mag/ Classic body
    CO2

    Setup:
    1.5 carrier 3 shims
    SHORTEST (brass) spring

    Problem:
    Basically the gun would fire, then stop firing. Sometimes when it didn't fire, it would make the ball pinching sound then reset, sometimes the bolt would just not fire at all.
    At the crono I was very inconsistent (but probably because of the cool temps and CO2) However when it warmed up during the day, I would crono around 310-320, turn it down, crono at 285 (the field limit). I would fire one or a string of a few, then the bolt wouldn't fire. During one game, the gun would just not fire.

    I'm using the shortest spring, and I believe that the velocity issue was supposed to be solved by spring length... what should I do?!?

    AGD: Go with the biggest carrier that doesn't leak. Try that.

    ***EDIT*** 7/26/02
    1.5 carrier is the largest carrier that doesn't leak, carrier 2 and 2.5 leak. Any other suggestions? If I can't get it to work, would it be possible to send it into AGD for some work? (I would expect to pay for this)
    Last edited by LittMag; 07-27-2002 at 03:18 AM.
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  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Schaumburg, IL
    Posts
    502

    lvl 10 woes

    sigh i finally get my lvl 10 in and i cant seem get it to work correctly...

    alright im using an rtpro input pressure @950 (if that makes a difference)


    Following the instructions on the site I started with the carrier with 2 grooves on it and no dots.. LEAKED HEAVILY from barrel.. (im talking a 100 psi/a sec).. assuming it was the described barrel leak i upped the velocity hoping it would stop. It actually seemed to get worse right up until the point wher air came out of the back of the gun..
    now down to 2500 psi .. i figured it was the wrong carrier... same situation now 2200 psi... went to the 1.5 carrier which very snug on the back of the bolt and got same result yay 1800psi... convinced now that it wasnt the carrier but either the spring and/or shims i began to try diffferent combinations to no avail... i put back in the non lvl 10 componants just to make sure it was the kit and not my gun and my gun worked as normal...
    *note i did the thing where you install the lvl10 with no shims and push on the bolt face while its leaking to hear if it changes tone.. and it didnt change at all

    So basicaly facts are:
    pretty sure I have the carrier picked right (the one wiht one solid line and no dots)

    Heavy venting from barrel..... about 100 psi a sec..

    No change in springs or increase in velocity made the leak stop or even slow (unless you count when the velocity went up enought to make it vent out back of gun instead of front

    gun works fine with Non lvl 10 parts...

    ANY SUGGESTIONS AS TO WHAT I COULD BE DOING WRONG OR WHAT THE PROBLEM IS WOULD BE GREATLY APRECIATED
    thanks in advance

    *P.S. I watched the video and did the install right,does the AGD tech dept take walk in appointments since I live not even 30 min away?

    AGD: Good possibility your bolt pin is not pushed all the way in. There is a big problem, call the office and see if you can come in sometime next week. We can look at it.
    Last edited by AGD; 07-27-2002 at 12:38 AM.
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  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    6

    Unhappy level10

    Ummm...this is going to sound really weird but my superbolt doesn't even fit into the body. I have the regular longnose bolt for my micromag RT (yes its a micromag body) and a ANS venturi foami, they both fit fine. When I tried putting the superbolt in, you could visibly see the bolt not being able to fit inside the breach area inside the body (where the tube gets smaller to fit the bolt inside the breech). Upon inspecting the superbolt for any deformations I saw that the tip of the bolt appeared "rounded" and had a larger diameter than the rest of the bolt which has caused me to believe this is why it cannot fit inside the breech's inner diameter. Has anyone else ever seen this? I thought to myself that maybe the Micromag's bore size might have been different but then again the AGD longnose bolt fits like a glove...Im not sure what I should do, the bolt doesn't fit. Has anyone else see superbolts with the tips of them slightly swollen or rounded?


    edit: ok I just took a piece of emory cloth and rounded off the front edge of the bolt...after I could finally put the bolt in properly the level 10 kit was pretty easy to install...had a few leaks at first but then I just changed the carrier to a tighter fit and it stopped. The level ten works like a dream. I have no problems with bolt stick. No problems with leaking. No problems with velocity. My micromag rt is officially my main gun now. I tried to break paint, used some non brand name crappy field paint...fanned the trigger, shot sideways, turnned the hopper off...shot a half case...not even a barrel break. I used the smallest bolt spring, (lengthwise) and the number 2 carrier(two stripes)

    AGD: This happens occasionally when the washer inside the mainbody develops a burr. You need to take a round file and carefully file off the inside edge of the washer.
    Last edited by sonicnofadz; 07-29-2002 at 02:17 AM.
    S0n1x

  7. #37

    Still having a problem

    Ok, I'm still having a bit of problem with my LX.

    If any of you recall, I had to find a shorter spring (shorter than the stock one actually). I ended up finding a spring that *just* reached the end of the LX bolt. The gun fires now, without venting out the AIR, however it seems to chop occasionally(sp?). I'm using 1.5 carrier, and I currently have 3 shims (trying to get it to vent sooner)... It'll still leave a good dent in a pencil. Seems it'll bounce two or three times, then *pow* it'll cycle all the way.

    Any ideas? it's hard to show off this way

    AGD: Squid give me all the details of your setup in a new post at the bottom so I see it.
    Last edited by AGD; 07-27-2002 at 12:40 AM.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,851
    I don't know and didnt read about your old problem but the longer the spring, the more pressure on the bolt to slow it down(hence the softer on paint).

  9. #39
    with the longer springs I was having to turn the velocity up so high it was venting out the back of the AIR

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,851
    have you tried to use a 2.0 carrier?if it does not leak with a 2.0 the bolt can slide easier so you would not have to turn up the velocity as high and you will be able to use a longer spring.(just an idea)

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    Posts
    8
    Using a Classic AIR P/F I ended up using 2 shims and the 1.0 carrier as the 1.5 I was using started to leak after about 1,000 - 1,500 shots. I had to replace the regulator piston because it was an old one from around 1994 and it would vent when the velocity was anywhere near 250 fps using any spring. The problem is even after I replaced the reg piston the velocity must be turned almost all the way up to reach 300 fps. I even replaced the regulator seat. There is little veloctiy adjustment available. I am using the longest spring which is extremely easy on the finger during testing and wish to keep this setup, I just hope my velocity can stay close enough to 300 fps without venting. If anyone could advise if using the 1.0 carrier instead of the looser 1.5 carrier would cause more friction and thus reduced velocity? If that is the case I could try to use the 1.5 carrier with a new O-Ring as maybe the old one leaked because it was damaged when I pulled the carrier out of the power tube during tuning.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    4,772

    Re: Still having a problem

    Originally posted by squidboy69
    Ok, I'm still having a bit of problem with my LX.
    What does it chrono at?


    Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
    Hitech is the man.... - Blennidae
    The only Hitech Lubricant

  13. #43

    about my problem above

    1.5 carrier is the largest carrier that doesn't leak, carrier 2 and 2.5 leak. Any other suggestions? If I can't get it to work, would it be possible to send it into AGD for some work? (I would expect to pay for this)

    AGD: call the tech line.
    Last edited by AGD; 07-28-2002 at 01:25 AM.

  14. #44
    ben_JD Guest

    Re: problem with solution

    Originally posted by Panzerr
    I found that after putting two cases of paint through my new Level 10 kit that i developed a very slight leak in the power tube from time to time. I removed the o-ring carrier and installed the next smallest size and the leak stopped. Apparently the o-ring "broke in" and was a tiny bit too loose.
    Is this the appropriate action to take? I noticed today (after about 1 1/2 to 2 cases of paint with Level 10) that I would get a slight leak between shots occasionally. Sometimes shooting the marker would stop the leak, sometimes it wouldn't. I am currently using the 2.0 carrier. From what I read around here, the 1.5 carrier would be my next move?

    Also, I am having horrendous efficiency. I shot 600 rounds in a game today and it ate entirely through 68*3000 of HPA.

    AGD: If you are leaking only occasionally I would leave it alone because this means you have the least friction on the oring. Reports coming back seem to indicate that using the longest spring gets the worst effciency. Is that what your using?

    ben_JD's response to AGD: I am using the middle spring. It leaks only occasionally, but I fear that the leak is what is really impacting my efficiency (roughly 280 fps). Before you posted this response, I added a shim (now up to two) and the leaking seemed to abate. Is this just coincidence, or might that be the answer?

    I was using the middle spring, but that still hurt my pinky when I demonstrated the new Level 10 to the folks at the field, so I moved to the longest spring. I will move back to the middle spring, because I am having no problem with chopping. I may even move to the lightest spring, but don't want the bolt to have too much force.

    AGD: You should not use your pinky when demoing the marker. Remember, the second half of the forward stroke is under full pressure and will hurt more. Use one of your FAT fingers
    Last edited by AGD; 07-29-2002 at 09:08 PM.

  15. #45
    My emag in manual mode worked fine before level ten, but not the sear pin/rod will not come out after a couple shots. It will stick back and after a couple seconds you will hear air flow and it will come bakc out. How can i correct this? Is it velocity, preasure, ect...

    Thanks

    AGD: Add a shim or two
    Last edited by AGD; 07-29-2002 at 09:08 PM.

  16. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    493
    Original setup - #1 carrier, 2 shims and longest spring. Constant 750-850 psi.

    I went on to the field, and found out that I could not get it to shoot below 295-315 fps, no matter what I did. After 200-250 shots (along with the 150-200 dry shots) I gave up.

    ************************************************** *********

    I went to the middle spring this time, hoping I could get a reliable FPS in the 270-280s range. I highered the velocity, until it began to shoot. I was getting 295-310 fps again. I kept lowering it, until I hit 275-280s... Was pretty excited about it. I went back to my car, and set it up with the Warp Feed, as I was initially only using a revvy to do the test. This took around 5 minutes... I went back to the chrono and found I could not shoot, unless I highered the velocity. Which left me shooting above 300 again.

    ************************************************** *********

    I finally, with hesitation go to the smallest spring. Again, I start at a 300+ fps. I lower it enough so that I begin to shoot in the 270-275 fps. I go to the field and play 3 straight games, with absolutely no chops and have a great time.

    Then on the 4rth game, after resting for about 5-10 minutes I return to the field. I pull the trigger and nothing, which to me indicated that I needed to higher the velocity again. Well, I try to pull the trigger 3-4 more times... then on the next pull the gun cycles and I can shoot, without adjusting/highering the velocity at all. I play for the next 2-3 hours without problem. Then again afte resting 5-10 minutes, I return to the field and run into the same problem... I pull the trigger without result 3 times, then on the 4rth pull I can shoot.

    Is this because, in effect I'm pressurizing the valve each time I 'pull' on the trigger, enough to gas it up and have it cycle?

    If this is the case, can I do this with the middle or longer spring and have it fully cycle? As in, each time the gun stops cycling I pull the trigger until it begins to shoot reliably; without adjusting the velocity whatsoever... ? Since adjusting the velocity would mean leaving the field and having to chrono.

    From reading other threads, these seem to be my options so far:

    - Dry fire hundreds of times with the middle and longest spring, and have them 'break in' while shooting hot... And hope I can fire reliably at 270-280s range.

    - And/or change to a #1.5 carrier, from the current #1 and hope it allows me to shoot with the longest/middle spring.

    Would appreciate any corrections on my assumptions and any other advice on how to get my marker cycling/shooting reliably at 270-280 fps with the middle/longest spring.

    No chops with the shortest spring, but would like the added insurance of having the longer springs.

    AGD: Its acting exactly like it should with too tight a carrier. Go to the biggest carrier that does not leak and it will solve your problem.
    Last edited by AGD; 07-29-2002 at 09:10 PM.

  17. #47
    with the excessively short spring it chronos at 250+/- with the shortest spring in the kit, it would chrono at 276 every single time, no variation, but it would vent out the back when I got the velocity high enough to cycle the gun.

    AGD: You need to buy an new reg piston yours is old school.
    Last edited by AGD; 07-29-2002 at 09:06 PM.

  18. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    el paso, tx, usa
    Posts
    1,141

    level 10 item list

    I just got my level 10 bolt in today...YAY!!!

    but, i dont think i got a backing washer, and i did not get a 2.0 carrier...i DID get 2 3.5 carriers....

    is the backing washer still needed? (i think, yes)

    well, just wanted AGD to know that at least one kit went out incorrectly...im not complainin, this stuff happens...and the reason that im not complainin is because of the people like Marcia and Joann that Tom has working for him will make my life easy.

    I'll get in touch with Marcia tomorrow...shes cool

    -alf

  19. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Rio Oso, California, United States
    Posts
    172
    Classic with an RT valve and a benchmark trigger frame with a flatline running about 850 p.s.i.. 2 shims, medium spring, 1.5 carrier (a 2 leaks) Shot about a half case of paint through it. I have a bit of a different problem than any post that I have read about here. As long as my tank is filled to above 1500 it seems like it shoots ok but below that I get really bad dropoff. If I single shoot seems ok. Is it suppose to be that way? I am also seeing some really wide crono speeds that I did not have with the standard bolt. The field that I play at wants 285 fps is that a problem?

    AGD: switch air systems with someone to see if thats the problem. Does not sound like a lvl10 issue.


    I did that and found no difference. I solved problem by going to small spring.
    I would like to make it softer but it is pretty good now and I can shoot Hellfire paint, which is really brittle stuff (0 bounce)! Thanks!
    Last edited by riooso; 08-04-2002 at 01:22 AM.

  20. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Waldorf MD U.S.A.
    Posts
    100
    My problem is similar to AzrealDarkmoonZ, a slight leak that goes away when I put pressure on the trigger. I tried tightening the field strip screw and it got even worse, so I loosened the screw and it would stop then I would shoot and sometimes it would start hissing again and I would turn the srew a little and it would go away. Do I have to find just the right spot for the screw or is there another problem?

    AGD: go half size smaller on the carrier.
    Last edited by AGD; 08-01-2002 at 10:15 PM.

  21. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    117
    Kinda a problem, kinda not, more of a question of operation on the L10.

    When my bolt stops on a ball, i have to pull the trigger again to reset it... is this normal operation?

    Legion

    AGD: yes its working perfectly

    Legion: Coo, thanks!
    Last edited by legion; 08-02-2002 at 03:47 PM.

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  22. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Warner Robins Georgia
    Posts
    395
    Hey the do you guys knoiw the little black things that were on the front of the new bolt mine is gone how do you replace it

    BlackVCG: That's the foamie. Your LVL 10 kit should have come with an extra one. Use a good epoxy and glue it back into the bolt
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 08-02-2002 at 03:35 AM.


    "Hey its the new transparent aluminum gun!! Must be light because you cant see it!" ------AGD

  23. #53

    HEy i have a prob with the level 10 too

    OK like i have a emag, warp with 12 X revy.... anyways when i start shootin like i will get a ball caught half way in all the hopper Warp and revy are workin and i only have about 1900 psi in my flatline and its about 90 degrees outside whats goin on with my gun!!!!???!!!!!!!!

    BlackVCG: If I deciphered your post correctly, you need to add one or two shims.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 08-02-2002 at 03:37 AM.

  24. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,851
    does the bolt stay stuck on the ball or does it rengage?

  25. #55
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    The maddest pad in town (La Plata, MD)
    Posts
    144

    Carrier

    No matter how hard I try, I can't seem to get any of the carriers to fit all the way into the power tube tip... I'm gonna go back and keep trying (I've oiled the carrier o-rings too).

    Thanks,
    CenterFire

    EDIT- Got the carrier in finally, but now I need an easily found tool to get it out... just as hard as getting it in *sigh*

    BlackVCG: Use a Bic pen to press the carrier in and get a dental pick to pull out the carrier. You can get them at hardware stores.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 08-02-2002 at 03:39 AM.

  26. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    493
    CenterFire -

    I had the same problem, getting it in and out.

    Try using the tip of a plastic pen. One that'll obviously fit into the carrier. Press it it until it feels 'stuck' - you'll have to put a good amount of pressure on to it. Then pull it out.

    It takes a little practice, but once done right.. Well, I have no problems taking Carriers out now.


  27. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Warner Robins Georgia
    Posts
    395
    i had the same prob i used the quick strip bolt on the bottom back of the gun the holds the valve assembly on it fits perfectly but still does any of you know if those black things are important in my new LX kit (the ones on the new Super Bolt)

  28. #58
    halo13 Guest
    Ok, here's my problem. I tried to install the lvl 10 kit on my emag but I'm getting some weird venting problems. The first time I installed it i used the 2.5 carrier. When I gassed up my gun (750psi input) I satrted to get a gass leak down the barrel, and it didn't make the normal "click" cocking sound. When I tried to shoot the gun it just made a louder-than-usual clicking sound in e-mode. I turned off the air and went down to the next smallest carrier. The air venting noise became quieter but there was still no cocking and the trigger problem is still there. Eventually I went down the the 1.5, 1 carrier. I still have the air leaking problem, the gun doesn't seem to cock, and there is pressure behind the trigger (in manual) even after I turned off my air. I have tried a variety of different spring combos but I haven't screwed with the shims yet, I've consistantly been using 2.

    p.s. I'm going to try the #.5 carrier next but I'm waiting for the pressure in my line to do down so I can actually remove it from my gun. Hopefully I can remove it in the next hour. does anybody have a clue as to what my problem could be caused by?

    [edit]
    Ok, I have successfully installed the level 10 mod. It seems that I really had to crank the velocity. I think I did about 6-8 360 degree turns (which seems really abnormal to me, is it supposed to go up that far?). I tried it out on my squeege and it seemed to work correcty. I just need to get my hands on a chronograph to check the speed. I'm about 92% sure that the lvl 10 stuff is working the way its supposed to, but I don't think i'll be sticking my tounge in my gun any time soon.

    Here's another question. I'm currently using the medium length spring. Do the different springs affect velocity at all?

    BlackVCG: Get a quick disconnect to bleed the pressure from your system. Yes, you need to crank on the velocity to get it working. The springs will affect the velocity the gun will operate at. The longest spring will let the gun work in the 280-300fps range, middle about 20fps lower and the shortest spring for indoor speeds i.e. 240fps.
    Last edited by BlackVCG; 08-02-2002 at 03:42 AM.

  29. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    4,772
    Originally posted by halo13
    Do the different springs affect velocity at all?
    Not exactly. They provide "back" pressure against the bolt. They affect the minimum velocity the marker will shoot at. The longer the spring, the higher the minimum velocity the marker requires to fire. You want the marker to start firing about 20 fps BELOW what you want your velocity to be.

  30. #60
    halo13 Guest
    hmm, ok. I think I'll stick on the shortest spring and see what happens. Damn, i need to get my hands on a chrono.

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