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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #1351
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
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    New Hampshire
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    22

    Can A Level 10 go into a 68 Classic Mag

    Can Someone tell me if a Level 10 can go into a 68 Classic Mag.

    The Automag is a special field rental gun on valve.

    Please Reply

  2. #1352
    Join Date
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    Halifax, N.S., Canada
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    The level 10 will go into the classic valve but not the classic rental valve with the restricted powertube.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  3. #1353
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Nor*Cal
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    i just switched out the shortest bolt spring(the shiney goldish looking one) for a red one. i think its the medium spring. i can stick my finger in the chamber with no pain.

    it chuffs when i shoot. the first shot will be a chuff, then all following shots will be great. when it chuffs the ball only goes 3 feet.
    then if i wait a few seconds, the same thing happens.
    if i take the barrel off, it works flawlessley.

    i tried tightening the frame screws, and it has helped, but not completely. i think the bolt is getting hung up on the barrel.

    also, somewhat frequently a ball will break towards the end of the barrel now. it never did this with the old spring. do i need to polish the bolt or something?
    upgrade fund: $145

  4. #1354
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    It does sound like you are getting some bolt stick due to misalignment of the barrel. What is the inside diameter of the barrel? Also, check the stability of the valve in the body of the mag. If there is movement, then it is possible that you field strip screw or your body screw is too long.

    What is your setup? New /old? Xvalve/Rt Pro? rail/body type? etc?

  5. #1355
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    its just some twistlock dye x-cel barrel. so i think that would be a .689. the valve is stable, and its never done this before until i put this stiffer spring in. i dont ahve a kit or anything for the lvl 10. could i use my extra ULT shims for anything?

    set-up:
    minimag body, x-valve, ULT, intelliframe, and an RTP rail(i have no idea if its old or new. but it works just fine with my x-valve)

  6. #1356
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    You gave me the info I needed. Try wrapping a turn or two of electrical tape around the barrel under the orings. This will tighten the barrel and keep it from wobbling and it will help keep it aligned as well. Dye barrels are known to have issues with the level 10 setups. They have a bit of tolerance which allows them to fit just about any setup easily, but the level 10 precision doesn't allow it. The smaller bolt spring allowed any rubbing on the barrel to have a minimal effect on the bolt movement. When you moved to the stiffer spring, the effect was exagerated and became a problem.

    Another thing to check would be the fit of the minimag body onto the rt pro rail. Sometimes it seems tight but there is a slight gap. That is due to the pim (threaded nut) on the bottom of the minimag body bottoming out against the bottom of the hole in the rail. The oringinal classic rails had a deeper hole than the RT pro rails and the pims on the classic and minimag bodies were longer than on the rt pro bodies. Just something to check.

  7. #1357
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    You gave me the info I needed. Try wrapping a turn or two of electrical tape around the barrel under the orings. This will tighten the barrel and keep it from wobbling and it will help keep it aligned as well. Dye barrels are known to have issues with the level 10 setups. They have a bit of tolerance which allows them to fit just about any setup easily, but the level 10 precision doesn't allow it. The smaller bolt spring allowed any rubbing on the barrel to have a minimal effect on the bolt movement. When you moved to the stiffer spring, the effect was exagerated and became a problem.

    Another thing to check would be the fit of the minimag body onto the rt pro rail. Sometimes it seems tight but there is a slight gap. That is due to the pim (threaded nut) on the bottom of the minimag body bottoming out against the bottom of the hole in the rail. The oringinal classic rails had a deeper hole than the RT pro rails and the pims on the classic and minimag bodies were longer than on the rt pro bodies. Just something to check.
    actually, the minimag body wouldn't fit the rail because of that threaded nut. i dremmeled it to be round instead of square, and it fits nice and good with the rail.

    i did notice in the past about the barrel. when its in, it does wiggle a tiny bit. but the weird thing is the barrel wont go in without alot of force if there is no oil on the o-rings or in the body to help it slide.

    will i have to cut the electrical tape to be really really skinny so it fits in the groove?

  8. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanna-b-ballin'
    actually, the minimag body wouldn't fit the rail because of that threaded nut. i dremmeled it to be round instead of square, and it fits nice and good with the rail.
    Make sure it isn't bottoming out even just barely.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanna-b-ballin'
    i did notice in the past about the barrel. when its in, it does wiggle a tiny bit. but the weird thing is the barrel wont go in without alot of force if there is no oil on the o-rings or in the body to help it slide.

    will i have to cut the electrical tape to be really really skinny so it fits in the groove?
    As long as the electrical tape is in the groove, you should be fine. The overlap won't be as high as the orings anyway. Use as much as needed. If it only requires a single wrap, then only use a single wrap. If it requires 3 wraps, use 3. Also, check the twist lock assembly. If it is bent or stiff, it could make the barrel hard to insert.

  9. #1359
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    it works great now. i put tape in both grooves, and i couldn't even get my barrel in, so i took the tape out of the rear groove, and now it works exelent.
    thanks.

  10. #1360
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Mn just moved to the twin cities
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    56

    Lvl10 rt problems

    I've got an older RT that really ripped with the ans bolt but chopped paint so I installed a new lvl10 and during tuning it I had to turn up pressures to the leaking point at the reg to get it to work at all and no longer will rip and shoots low speed. I've installed lvl10s on my clasics without any problems they work fine this doesn't work at all. what to do here?

  11. #1361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scavanger
    I've got an older RT that really ripped with the ans bolt but chopped paint so I installed a new lvl10 and during tuning it I had to turn up pressures to the leaking point at the reg to get it to work at all and no longer will rip and shoots low speed. I've installed lvl10s on my clasics without any problems they work fine this doesn't work at all. what to do here?
    Well, I think you answered your own question. The operating pressure exceeds the over pressure setting of the regulator piston assembly. You will need a new one for your rt to work properly with a level 10 bolt installed. It is a common problem with older rt or retro valves when installing level 10's.

  12. #1362
    warthog2t0 Guest
    ok for a long time mine just wouldn't work. so i just took it apart and cleaned it out a bit. i didn't take it all apart, just stuff i could. and now i takes air again but it just sort of fires out the back in a stream. but other then that everything works fine. any ideas?

  13. #1363
    BOLT BROKEN. my gun wasnt working, i literally just opened the box. it chopped a bunch so i stripped and cleaned and put back together, i was careful to put it together just as i took it aprat. it wouldnt recock. through trial and error i found out the thumbscrew was on too tight! But in the process i broke the rubber part off the lvlX bolt! Where can i fix it!
    LP Spyder E99 Avant

  14. #1364
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJcool
    BOLT BROKEN. my gun wasnt working, i literally just opened the box. it chopped a bunch so i stripped and cleaned and put back together, i was careful to put it together just as i took it aprat. it wouldnt recock. through trial and error i found out the thumbscrew was on too tight! But in the process i broke the rubber part off the lvlX bolt! Where can i fix it!
    The foamy is glued on. Use a good epoxy. Make sure the bolt face is clean.

  15. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by warthog2t0
    ok for a long time mine just wouldn't work. so i just took it apart and cleaned it out a bit. i didn't take it all apart, just stuff i could. and now i takes air again but it just sort of fires out the back in a stream. but other then that everything works fine. any ideas?
    Try replacing the regulator seat oring.

  16. #1366
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    New Berlin WI
    Posts
    88
    I have a micromag rt running off of a 3k flatline. I put a level 10 in it a couple of years ago. It worked perfect for a couple of summers. Lately the gun still works fine but when I let off of the trigger there is a slight leak coming from the back of the valve (where you make the velocity adjustment) The gun is set to shoot at 285 fps input pressure from the tank is 1200 psi. The gun works great, and the leak goes away if I hold the trigger in the firing postion. It has been quite a while since I put the level 10 in. I don't remember how to fix this. Any thoughts?
    Thanks,
    Kory
    Micromag rt, 68 ci flatline,12"ss total freak ,warpdrive, 12volt revi.homemade intelliframe.

  17. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kory
    I have a micromag rt running off of a 3k flatline. I put a level 10 in it a couple of years ago. It worked perfect for a couple of summers. Lately the gun still works fine but when I let off of the trigger there is a slight leak coming from the back of the valve (where you make the velocity adjustment) The gun is set to shoot at 285 fps input pressure from the tank is 1200 psi. The gun works great, and the leak goes away if I hold the trigger in the firing postion. It has been quite a while since I put the level 10 in. I don't remember how to fix this. Any thoughts?
    Thanks,
    Kory
    This leak is caused by a worn regulator piston assembly. The retro valve uses an air passage from the front chamber to the regulator piston assembly to provide feedback for pressure regulation. When you hold the trigger in, you prevent the pressure from getting to the piston and overloading the weakened piston assembly.

  18. #1368
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    Sep 2002
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    New Berlin WI
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    Looks like I'll be ordering a regulator parts kit from the agd store. Thanks for the info.
    Kory

  19. #1369
    Well, after reading through all 46 pages I saw plenty of others ask this question but no answer. With the level 10 instlalled in my ReTro Valve Micromag the reactivity is almost nothing, it's like shooting a classic valve mag. When I take the level 10 out the reactivity is back and very strong. What is the level 10 changing that's making me lose my reactivity, and is there a way to fix this? Thanks.

  20. #1370
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tulare County, CA
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    368

    lvl 10 on field rental

    hey guys, ive been trying to tune the level 10 on a friend's 68 automag when i noticed that its a field rental automags and in the agd website it said the level ten isnt compatible with field rentals. the thing is I had it shooting with no leaks with the .5 carrier and no shims, standard spring; but the bolt didnt look like it would not chop a ball in half. is there anyway to make it work, or is it hopeless? thanks

  21. #1371
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    Quote Originally Posted by gx3man
    Well, after reading through all 46 pages I saw plenty of others ask this question but no answer. With the level 10 instlalled in my ReTro Valve Micromag the reactivity is almost nothing, it's like shooting a classic valve mag. When I take the level 10 out the reactivity is back and very strong. What is the level 10 changing that's making me lose my reactivity, and is there a way to fix this? Thanks.
    There are a couple of things that change the reactivity of the valve. The higher chamber pressure required by the level 10 affects the trigger pull by increasing force on the on-off pin but the level 10 also reduces the force on the bolt. Depending on your setup, you could get varied results, but the reactivity will be affected. Reactivity depends on the differential force between the trigger pull and the force of the recharging air. The level 10, operating at a higher pressure increases the required trigger force, but the residual pressure remaining in the chamber is higher as well. The higher operating pressure also makes the differential pressure between the chamber and bottle less. The recharging air has less force acting on the top of the on-off pin. The total result is less of a differential between the forces of the pull and the return. Thus, you get less reactivity.

  22. #1372
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediMastR
    hey guys, ive been trying to tune the level 10 on a friend's 68 automag when i noticed that its a field rental automags and in the agd website it said the level ten isnt compatible with field rentals. the thing is I had it shooting with no leaks with the .5 carrier and no shims, standard spring; but the bolt didnt look like it would not chop a ball in half. is there anyway to make it work, or is it hopeless? thanks
    Check the powertube. Field rental valves had a restricted passage in the powertube. If your valve does not have a restricted powertube you are good to go. If you have been firing the gun with the level 10 bolt and it fits in the powertube, chances are you have a regular valve.

  23. #1373
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tulare County, CA
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    368
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    Check the powertube. Field rental valves had a restricted passage in the powertube. If your valve does not have a restricted powertube you are good to go. If you have been firing the gun with the level 10 bolt and it fits in the powertube, chances are you have a regular valve.
    it looks like it gets a little narrower right after where the delrin washer sits. in fact, that makes the washer kinda useless cause theyre no way the power tube oring would fall through there...well that sucks new valve for me!

  24. #1374
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tulare County, CA
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    368

    lvl ten and minimag valves

    hey guys i was wondering if the level 10 works on minimag "reverse" valves. Also, when tuning the lvl 10 on a regular classic valve, what is the most advantageous way to adjust the spring? is it best to try and get a short one to work, long or middle? Thanks

  25. #1375
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediMastR
    hey guys i was wondering if the level 10 works on minimag "reverse" valves. Also, when tuning the lvl 10 on a regular classic valve, what is the most advantageous way to adjust the spring? is it best to try and get a short one to work, long or middle? Thanks
    The level 10 bolt works on all mag valves.

    When adjusting the sensitivity, use the longest spring you can but make sure it gives you consistent operation. The middle spring seems to work best for most people. Remember to remove all shims when setting up your level 10. Once you get the proper carrier setup and the proper spring spring installed, you can add a shim or two to adjust the vent hole distance. A lot of people never use shims at all. I don't and have never had a problem having fired well over 100000 rounds out of my emag with the level 10.

  26. #1376
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Tulare County, CA
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    368

    squeegee test?

    hey guys, i just finished tuning the level ten to my minimag classic valve. 1.0 carrier no shims, middle spring. i shot about 60 rounds and no leaks shooting consistently...but when I did the squeegee test putting it front of the bolt, it comes forward, hits the squeegee slightly vents and bounces off...is that what it should do? im just trying to gauge if i tuned it correctly to not chop..

    also just a misc question, my minimag valve on top says Center Fire Mag #0133 what is the significance of that?

    thanks

  27. #1377
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    That is exactly what it is supposed to do.

  28. #1378

    RT level 10 leak

    I have an RT classic and I'm trying to install the level 10. I followed the directions and got it to fire with the 2 lined carrier, but the gun leaks out of the back of the valve, right where you adjust the velocity. If I turn it up too high it squeals, maybe it's the shims? I'm using the medium spring, 2 shims and the 2 lined carrier. The leaking continues with all the smaller carriers. Please help!!!

  29. #1379
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    Quote Originally Posted by afcop12
    I have an RT classic and I'm trying to install the level 10. I followed the directions and got it to fire with the 2 lined carrier, but the gun leaks out of the back of the valve, right where you adjust the velocity. If I turn it up too high it squeals, maybe it's the shims? I'm using the medium spring, 2 shims and the 2 lined carrier. The leaking continues with all the smaller carriers. Please help!!!
    The older classic valves (RT and AIR) have lower overpressure settings in the regulator piston assembly. The level 10 operates at a higher chamber pressure which combined with aging parts of the assemby is too high and vents out the back. The solution is to get a new regulator piston assembly. the new ones are rated at a higher pressure for use in the level 10 equiped valves.

  30. #1380
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    The older classic valves (RT and AIR) have lower overpressure settings in the regulator piston assembly. The level 10 operates at a higher chamber pressure which combined with aging parts of the assemby is too high and vents out the back. The solution is to get a new regulator piston assembly. the new ones are rated at a higher pressure for use in the level 10 equiped valves.
    Where do I get that, directly from AGD?, cause I looked on their site and couldn't find it. Thanks for the help though.

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