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Thread: ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

  1. #1801
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    No, this is not normal. The regulator seat oring prevents the bottle pressure from getting into the the chamber. If this oring isn't working properly, you will probably experience air venting out the back due to overpressure in the chamber.

    Does the mag stop firing when holding the trigger after a shot? Make sure you have the rail bushing installed when you put the mag back together.
    It never stops firing after pulling the trigger until released, and ocassionaly it vents air. It will either vent air or just become full auto, untill i reseat the oring back into the regulator.

  2. #1802
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    Quote Originally Posted by rexydog
    It never stops firing after pulling the trigger until released, and ocassionaly it vents air. It will either vent air or just become full auto, untill i reseat the oring back into the regulator.
    The on-off pin is supposed to stop the front chamber from filling with air as long as the trigger is held. If air is filling the chamber to allow the bolt to recycle, then there is only two places it can enter. The first is past the on-off top orings. The second is past the regulator valve pin oring. If air blows past either of these orings, the bolt could continually cycle, even with the trigger held.

    Check that both on-off top orings are in place. Check that the regulator valve pin oring is in place.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  3. #1803
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    The on-off pin is supposed to stop the front chamber from filling with air as long as the trigger is held. If air is filling the chamber to allow the bolt to recycle, then there is only two places it can enter. The first is past the on-off top orings. The second is past the regulator valve pin oring. If air blows past either of these orings, the bolt could continually cycle, even with the trigger held.

    Check that both on-off top orings are in place. Check that the regulator valve pin oring is in place.
    There is only one top o-ring on the on-off for the ULE as far as I am aware, and it is there. The Regulator valve pin o-ring is the one i'm talking about moving and that AGD told me to move from the "regulator seat Holder" to the groove on the regulator itself, which does fix it till i degas the marker and regas it.

  4. #1804
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    Quote Originally Posted by rexydog
    There is only one top o-ring on the on-off for the ULE as far as I am aware, and it is there. The Regulator valve pin o-ring is the one i'm talking about moving and that AGD told me to move from the "regulator seat Holder" to the groove on the regulator itself, which does fix it till i degas the marker and regas it.
    You mentioned it was happening with the RT on-off as well, which is why I went that route. Since the problem is the same with both on-off assemblies, I suspect they are not the problem.

    It definately appears to be a regulator valve pin oring problem. Why is it not being held in place. Are both orings at that end of the assembly in place? Is the reg seat holder installed in the correct orientation. Make sure there is no dirt or debris in any of the orings, including the front two orings and spacer on the front of the valve pin assembly.

  5. #1805
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    You mentioned it was happening with the RT on-off as well, which is why I went that route. Since the problem is the same with both on-off assemblies, I suspect they are not the problem.

    It definately appears to be a regulator valve pin oring problem. Why is it not being held in place. Are both orings at that end of the assembly in place? Is the reg seat holder installed in the correct orientation. Make sure there is no dirt or debris in any of the orings, including the front two orings and spacer on the front of the valve pin assembly.
    I'm not really sure how to remove the Valve Pin Assemby, do i just use a pair of pliers to grab and pull? I don't wanna damage it. But i can see that the Regulator Seat O-Ring is in place and doesn't look dirty, the regulator seat holder appears to be right orintation(using a tac-one x-valve picture i found on the agd site), and the o-ring behind the seat appears to not be dirty. Let me know how to remove that assembly and i'll check the other two. Thanks

  6. #1806
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    To remove the valve pin assy on any RT valve, you can hook it by the small hole that is in the side of the tube on the regulator side. Just pull it right out.

  7. #1807
    Quote Originally Posted by questionful
    To remove the valve pin assy on any RT valve, you can hook it by the small hole that is in the side of the tube on the regulator side. Just pull it right out.
    Thanks I got it out. I don't see any dirt but i did notice that the regulator seat holder isn't exactly tight on the pin assebly it kinda wobles around, and if i take the o-ring that i am always moving(#34 on the picture from the manual) and place it in the holder it keeps the holder from wobling. Is that normal and what is the best method to clean these o-rings? Just rinse and reoil?

  8. #1808
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    Quote Originally Posted by rexydog
    Thanks I got it out. I don't see any dirt but i did notice that the regulator seat holder isn't exactly tight on the pin assebly it kinda wobles around, and if i take the o-ring that i am always moving(#34 on the picture from the manual) and place it in the holder it keeps the holder from wobling. Is that normal and what is the best method to clean these o-rings? Just rinse and reoil?
    the holder does exactly what you see it doing. With the o-ring in place nothing moves around and the o-rings are held at the proper spacing.

    Replace the back o-ring on the regulator valve pin assembly if you haven't already done it. There must be a defect in it. The mag regulator is fairly simple and if all o-rings are in place, it should function fine. If there is no dirt allowing air to pass, I can only guess that the o-ring is malfunctioning due to defect or incorrect sizing.

  9. #1809
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    the holder does exactly what you see it doing. With the o-ring in place nothing moves around and the o-rings are held at the proper spacing.

    Replace the back o-ring on the regulator valve pin assembly if you haven't already done it. There must be a defect in it. The mag regulator is fairly simple and if all o-rings are in place, it should function fine. If there is no dirt allowing air to pass, I can only guess that the o-ring is malfunctioning due to defect or incorrect sizing.
    Well I replaced the o-ring agian, but it appears that my cat has managed to carry off my thumb screw. So once i find that I'll let ya know how it works. Thanks for the help.

  10. #1810

    Wont shoot

    i have a retro mag and i just install the lvl 10 bolt im using medium spring, 2 shims, and the 2 lined carrier so send biggest. but whne i gas it up, theres no leaking which is good but when i pull the trigger nothing happens?
    so not sure how to fix it

  11. #1811
    Quote Originally Posted by canadian_nibbles
    i have a retro mag and i just install the lvl 10 bolt im using medium spring, 2 shims, and the 2 lined carrier so send biggest. but whne i gas it up, theres no leaking which is good but when i pull the trigger nothing happens?
    so not sure how to fix it
    ok i got it too shoot but when i try to shoot fast it seems that it stops and lets air out between shots?and really slows down my shooting any advice?

  12. #1812
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    Quote Originally Posted by canadian_nibbles
    ok i got it too shoot but when i try to shoot fast it seems that it stops and lets air out between shots?and really slows down my shooting any advice?
    What velocity are you shooting at? Make sure the velocity is high enough to properly cycle the gun. The level 10 bolt needs a higher setting than the level 7 bolt just to shoot the same velocity as you were shooting before the upgrade.

    Remove the shims when testing.

  13. #1813
    I never used to have any problems with my level 10 kit since I first installed it. Now, when I pull the trigger, the bolt stops halfway without making it all the way forward and then vents air continuously until I push it back with my finger.

    What could be causing this problem?

    UPDATE: have an ULE body with a Custom Products Angel detent. I had the detent turned in too far, and the bolt was getting stuck on the metal part of the detent. Actually, it permanently damaged the detent by denting it.
    Last edited by sdawg; 07-06-2008 at 08:55 PM.

  14. #1814
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdawg
    I never used to have any problems with my level 10 kit since I first installed it. Now, when I pull the trigger, the bolt stops halfway without making it all the way forward and then vents air continuously until I push it back with my finger.

    What could be causing this problem?
    Something is binding if it doesn't fire but the bolt makes it half way. If it fires but doesn't reset, it could be that your bolt spring is worn out. If it "chuffs" but doesn't reset, it could be a carrier that is too tight or the bolt is binding on something in the breach such as a broken detent or nubbin. The bolt should eventually reset on its own when the force on the bolt by the air pressure in the chamber goes below the force of the bolt spring. If this doesn't happen and air continues to vent out the front, it could be a sign that there is a leak in the on-off area. Try holding the trigger in following an attempted shot. The venting air should eventually subside.

    I would check your carrier size and the condition of the powertube oring in the carrier.

    Turn up the velocity setting.

  15. #1815
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    My issue..

    Im rougly 2 full turns left of all the way right.. I have the Gold spring installed,
    NO shims and the smallest carrier yet it is still leaking. any ideas whats going on, My tac one was supposed to be factory tuned yet it wouldent fire, so Im now tinkering with it and have come to this problem.

    heres my setup.
    Dangerous power on/off flip switch ( is it supposed to blow out air when you turn it off?? )
    marcoline and 2 90 degree fittings.
    everything else is bone stock
    smallest carrier and no shims. my Internals are perfectly fine, nothing is broken or squished.

  16. #1816
    Quote Originally Posted by Mime
    Dangerous power on/off flip switch ( is it supposed to blow out air when you turn it off?? )
    yeah, that's a feature called "bleeding the lines."

    Where is the leak coming from? If it's from down the powertube/barrel, have you tried different o-rings?

  17. #1817
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    I have tryed ahem** :
    Every carrier in combination with Every O ring.
    I have not used shims. but I am going to try that with the smallest O ring and carrier to see if it helps.

    and quite frankly I'v put just over 25% of the oil that you get in the bottle in the marker,
    I cannot possible put anymore in it.

  18. #1818
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    I posted this on SpecOps but I'll post it here too. It's your on/off. You said on SpecOps that it still leaks when you hold the trigger down? Inspect your on/off O-rings, make sure you have the right ones in the right place, and oil them well.

  19. #1819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mime
    I have tryed ahem** :
    Every carrier in combination with Every O ring.
    I have not used shims. but I am going to try that with the smallest O ring and carrier to see if it helps.

    and quite frankly I'v put just over 25% of the oil that you get in the bottle in the marker,
    I cannot possible put anymore in it.
    You do have bolt stick which is why it won't fire. That is due to a carrier size that is too small. The leak when a carrier is too small is usually a bad o-ring or a piece of dirt.

    Don't over oil. You only need to wet the orings to make them slide better on moving parts.

    Make sure your rail bushing is in place. If it is missing, the valve could sit too far back and simulate the same effect as too many shims.

  20. #1820
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas

    Make sure your rail bushing is in place. If it is missing, the valve could sit too far back and simulate the same effect as too many shims.
    what is a rail bushing?

    and today I did the whole on/off thing and went through all the combinations again. now Im out of air for the second time and equally sad.
    this time though I tryed with shims. still nothing. its still leaking and its still sticking even after one shot.

  21. #1821
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mime
    what is a rail bushing?

    and today I did the whole on/off thing and went through all the combinations again. now Im out of air for the second time and equally sad.
    this time though I tryed with shims. still nothing. its still leaking and its still sticking even after one shot.
    The rail bushing fits in the hole at the back of the rail where the field strip screw goes through to hold the valve in place. If it is missing, it could cause the problems you are experiencing.

  22. #1822
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    The rail bushing fits in the hole at the back of the rail where the field strip screw goes through to hold the valve in place. If it is missing, it could cause the problems you are experiencing.

    oh, I got it.
    It wasnt the rail bushing.

    it just came to life suddenly. No idea what I did.
    everything is working fine, im going to the field with it on sunday to make sure it works.

  23. #1823
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mime
    oh, I got it.
    It wasnt the rail bushing.

    it just came to life suddenly. No idea what I did.
    everything is working fine, im going to the field with it on sunday to make sure it works.
    I'm guessing that a piece of dirt was causing the issue and it dislodged and is no longer there.

  24. #1824
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    Hey all, I've installed a level 10 in my classic valve'd pnuemag and I'm unsure the next step I should take.

    I've got the carrier with one line and one dot in, 3 shims, and the non-red spring. it will function fine if I turn up the velocity to the point where there is gas leaking out the back. If I turn it down enough to stop leaking it won't fire. Should I go with fewer shims or a different carrier?

    I know I should be able to find the info myself but I've been staring at if for a while and my mind has gone blah...

    Thanks.

  25. #1825
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack
    Hey all, I've installed a level 10 in my classic valve'd pnuemag and I'm unsure the next step I should take.

    I've got the carrier with one line and one dot in, 3 shims, and the non-red spring. it will function fine if I turn up the velocity to the point where there is gas leaking out the back. If I turn it down enough to stop leaking it won't fire. Should I go with fewer shims or a different carrier?

    I know I should be able to find the info myself but I've been staring at if for a while and my mind has gone blah...

    Thanks.
    It sounds like you are using the long silver bolt spring. Use the red bolt spring to lower the velocity setting at which the gun will fire.

    If it is not the bolt spring, it is quite possible that your regulator piston assembly is an older one that is set to a lower release pressure. If this is so, then you need a new assembly in order to run the level 10 bolt on your gun. If your gun is new, then the assembly is probably fine.

  26. #1826
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    Thanks I'll give that a try. For some reason I was thinking the red spring would be stronger than the silver one. What exactly is the definition of an older gun since these things last forever? My serial number is in the 21,xxx range.

  27. #1827
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack
    Thanks I'll give that a try. For some reason I was thinking the red spring would be stronger than the silver one. What exactly is the definition of an older gun since these things last forever? My serial number is in the 21,xxx range.
    An older mag would be any one that was produced prior to the release of the level 10. A 21,xxx serial number is definately in the old category. You have a lower pressure regulator piston assembly that probably needs to be upgraded to a new higher pressure one to handle the higher operating chamber pressure of the level 10 bolt system.

  28. #1828

    Spring trouble

    I have been using my lvl 10 bolt but it still chops once in awhile, im using the shortest spring because if i use any diff spring it will not shoot doesn't leak or anything but it just doesn't fire at any suggestions>?

  29. #1829
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    Quote Originally Posted by canadian_nibbles
    I have been using my lvl 10 bolt but it still chops once in awhile, im using the shortest spring because if i use any diff spring it will not shoot doesn't leak or anything but it just doesn't fire at any suggestions>?
    When you use the next longer (red) spring, don't forget to increase the velocity setting to bring the velocity back up to 300fps.

    When you do use the red spring, turn up the velocity until it does fire. What is your velocity at this setting?

  30. #1830
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    When you use the next longer (red) spring, don't forget to increase the velocity setting to bring the velocity back up to 300fps.

    When you do use the red spring, turn up the velocity until it does fire. What is your velocity at this setting?
    well i put the red one and cranked the velocity not sure exact FPS no chrony here. but i can crank it and crank it and it still feels to stiff with the red spring on ?

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