Questioning the 'Mag way of life...

**OldSchoolMag** · 10-21-2002, 06:02 PM

Well, here goes.

I've been playing paintball for somewhere in the realm of 6 years now, and for about the past 4 years, I've been shooting a Mag. After my Spyder, I bought my friends old Magic Boxed Mag, and then moved on to my RT Pro. Recently, I've been working on improving my skills, and trying to get into some actual tournament action, rather than just sticking to my usual rec and scenario ball ways.

By doing this, I've found the need for a faster and better way to shoot my paint. I'm tired of dragging my weighty yet reliable RT Pro around the field, and having the stores around me offer no service as well as no parts simply because I've chosen a less popular 'gun. The kids on the rec scene don't care too much what you shoot as long as it looks flashy, and my scenario compadres are die-hard Mag fans, but they all seem to be falling behind the times. The tournaments now almost all demand a faster shooting lighter weight electro just to keep up with everything else. Now this had me kind of worried until I heard about the E-Mag, and later, the Xtreme E-Mag, when I felt much more at ease about what my next 'gun was going to be. Level 10 only added to the excitement, and the Aluminum Valve talk sealed the deal. But with some of the stories I've been hearing lately, it's starting to seem like I should look towards another marker for the big jump to electro's.

Don't get me wrong though - there's nothing more in the world that I would rather have than a Dark Red Xtreme E-Mag with a matching Freak kit and a 4500 Flatline; and in fact, that's all I've been dreaming about for the past 2 months. It's just that with all these problems and scares arising, I don't know if I should keep waiting, or just go on to something else.

First of all, the Level 10 pressure in the line deal. This isn't really a big problem, I mean, a slide check would fix this, but it's just kind of the cherry on top of the ice cream sunday of death kinda thing...

Second, the shot-counter random reset bug. I've heard several people confirm this and no one deny it, and so that leads me to believe that everyone has this problem and no one's talked about it, which is fairly improbable, and even worse, I haven't heard anything official from AGD about this, even if it's just saying "Yeah, that little bugger's broken - go figure." Again, not that big of a deal, but another rock on the pile.

Finaly, the lack of Xtreme E-Mags. I realize that 150 $1000+ 'guns is alot to produce and handle, seeing as I have trouble affording a single one, but I think it's fairly obvious that if you're going to sell a huge number of Xtremes based on the popularity they recieve, you're going to need more than 150. Hopefully, there will be more soon, but all I've heard is "this is it until 2003." This, as it turns out, is a big problem. If I can't GET the 'gun, I sure don't want to sit around waiting for it for months on end.

Other electro's, on the other hand, are available now, have had most of the kinks worked out, batteries last longer, are lighter, etc, etc. So this bring me to the end of my long, long post.

But, I hope this isn't the end of my long love for Automags, and I hope no one says anything among the lines of "give up, go get an Angel" which is what I'm strongly considering at the moment due to the situation. I hope someone has some good news for me, because as it is, I don't see it getting much worse.

OSM

**yeahthatsme** · 10-21-2002, 06:19 PM

what happens when you give up, go get an angel, and your batteries die? then you'll sure be wishing you had an e-mag that can switch to manual. i think over all you should go for a regular emag and get the xtreem upgrade kit when it gets out. that would be the smartest thing.

and on the whole rec-ball shiny gun thing, why do you care what a bunch of noobs think is cool? if you can shoot them out it doesnt really matter.

go for an emag and upgrade it to the xtreem when you can. thats your best bet. good luck.

**halB** · 10-21-2002, 06:20 PM

oooooook, maybe mags arent for you?? when i had a spyder i swore that electros were the future... until i got one. im sorry but i just cant understand the trigger. i dont wanna mouseclick, i spend enough time on the damn computer. then i shot an automag, and felt that sweet, sweet trigger pull. crips, heavy, and short. just the way i liked it. its like what i dreamed a trigger should be. so now im going into mags. but if you think youll shoot faster with an electro, i dont think your getting the "fastest recharging valve in the industry" thing

**FrAuStY** · 10-21-2002, 06:21 PM

Well..if it makes any difference... I've heard a few people having problems with the NEW IR3's with C.O.P.S. A guy at a local field spent almost 1900$ on one... never got to play a single game with it all day.. he'd shoot 2 or 3 balls... then nothing! It personally doesn't matter to me that there aren't more than 150 extremes being produced... I can't afford one right now. Also.. I wanted a fade

But I know, some of you DO have the money, and if you have it and want an extreme but don't wanna wait.. DON'T. Down the road.. you may/may not come back to the mags.. if you don't hey.. thats your call

**SyntaxError** · 10-21-2002, 06:26 PM

I personally shoot an RT and its great for me. I'm just hitting the amateur tourney scene and I can shoot it perfectly fast. I can't shoot electros, there's just something about the trigger that I don't get, and anyone who was at PBX yesterday probably remembers me trying to shoot the swing trigger cocker, but I couldn't get anything out the barrel lol! Mags are the way to be.

**Blennidae** · 10-21-2002, 06:31 PM

OK, let me first say that I don't claim to know anything about any other electro gun, other than being able to identify the basic type, timmy, angel, etc.

You mention some of the little problems with Emags, such as the level 10 pressure and such. All little rocks on the pile as you put it.

Remember you are on a Mag page, so all the little things ar going to be mentioned. If you hang out on the other makes web pages, chances are you'd see that particular guns little problems.

I think a regular Emag has had most of the kinks ironed out. I have also heard of the counter reset thing, but so far mine has been fine. If it does glitch out, oh well. I don't check it that often. I don't go to WDP's page, but I have heard Angel boards go bad occasionally. I don't know if thats true or not, but I have seen that said about as often as the counter reset thing.

The Extremes, due to their newness may take some time to work out the bugs. IR3's are fairly new, so there may be some bugs that haven't shown up yet.

As for battery life, I think Emags are supposed to do like 20k shots per charge. I don't charge mine before every game and I have never seen the low battery message.

Just some things to consider.

**845** · 10-21-2002, 06:35 PM

Finaly, the lack of Xtreme E-Mags. I realize that 150 $1000+ 'guns is alot to produce and handle, seeing as I have trouble affording a single one, but I think it's fairly obvious that if you're going to sell a huge number of Xtremes based on the popularity they recieve, you're going to need more than 150. Hopefully, there will be more soon, but all I've heard is "this is it until 2003." This, as it turns out, is a big problem. If I can't GET the 'gun, I sure don't want to sit around waiting for it for months on end.

This fustrates me a bit too. If I wanna change to an electro I have to settle for a regular emag which is a bit heavy for my tastes or the Micro-E. Right now the Champaigne Fly Ir3 is looking real good.

**oldsoldier** · 10-21-2002, 06:40 PM

As far as angels go...check some of these posts out. They are great guns...but, if you drop it, totally drain it or something like that, and the code resets; youre screwed. You need the passcode. My emag has gone in the rain...no problems. And, if it did have probs, I play on manual...same gun. Then, let it dry. No code to unlock it, no silly messages (that I never look at anyway), nothing like that at all.
On a side note; every time I play, I see people w/high end guns (timmys, angels, etc). Well, in between games, they have them apart. Cleaning barrels, fidgeting with stuff, whatever. Me, I wipe it off and put it down. For me, thats all I want to have to do with it. Not retune it after every game. Too many parts equals more things to break. Just my .02

**shartley** · 10-21-2002, 06:44 PM

There is nothing wrong with questioning. That tells you that you care, and that you are not doing something blindly. It is by questioning and then reaffirming the truth that we remain in The Way Of The Mag.

**Load SM5** · 10-21-2002, 06:46 PM

All guns have problems, especially electros. The more complicated they get the more there is to potentially go south. Timmys, Angels and E-mags are all great guns but they all have the potential for problems. A friend of mine's GZ had ACE problems in the middle of a tourney and stopped firing, another guy brought a brand new IR3 to the field. Threw on an air tank and went to the chrono. 3 balls later he came back with paint oozing out of the breech, never worked right all day. Antother local has been trying to get a racegun cocker to work for 2 months now. Are they all crappy guns? Not at all. I've had a few niggling issues with my SFL but I worked through them and now it runs all over the guns at my field. I get trade offers every time I go play.

**845** · 10-21-2002, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by oldsoldier
As far as angels go...check some of these posts out. They are great guns...but, if you drop it, totally drain it or something like that, and the code resets; youre screwed. You need the passcode. My emag has gone in the rain...no problems. And, if it did have probs, I play on manual...same gun. Then, let it dry. No code to unlock it, no silly messages (that I never look at anyway), nothing like that at all.
On a side note; every time I play, I see people w/high end guns (timmys, angels, etc). Well, in between games, they have them apart. Cleaning barrels, fidgeting with stuff, whatever. Me, I wipe it off and put it down. For me, thats all I want to have to do with it. Not retune it after every game. Too many parts equals more things to break. Just my .02

If I dished out 1500 for an IR3 that thing wouldnt touch the ground unless i am sliding into a bunker. I would always have my trusty micromag to fall back on. An I would get the insane rate of fire accompanying an electro. Plus I get text messaging

Before all this can happen though I need to get a job.

**nastymag** · 10-21-2002, 06:53 PM

OK .... i have to say what tournement are playing ? . because at all the ones i have been to and where i play, alot of the big name teams are shotting mechincal guns.
look around ? plenty of people are doing fine ?.
getting an electro wont make anything better without trying. i played with my cocker and mag WAY before i got a angel .. and the truth is i really still get about the same amount of people, the only thing is i dont have to worry about my cocker working now.
and Every gun has glitches, i was playing with a darkangel the other day while my friend shot my LED, and this was a 2k1 2.2 dark angel. and eveyr once in a while the the screen would go blank and just randomly talk in giberish ( i know it sounds stupid .. what i mean ..is no one could read the display). The IR3 breaks cops pin once in a while . so with any gun you get you will get possible proplems no matter what.

**magman007** · 10-21-2002, 06:56 PM

Load, let me first start off by saying, I LANDED A SFL!!!!

Now, about the mags. ITs a mag man. THe extremes, well, let me say agd droped the ball a little bit on em. SO what?

My advice to you , is keep the rt, and try something new. Shoot everything at the fiels. If you find something you like, then so be it. Buy that. If not, save for the extreme. I have never had a major e-mag problem, and the olny time i lost my shot coulnd, was when I pourpoosely drained the battery.

PS, the e-mag battery gets about 15000 good ****s, no more

**EnderWigginPballin** · 10-21-2002, 07:32 PM

I think the only reason WDP did the whole COPS thing instead of an eye was so that they wouldn't be seen as copying Bob Long, or Smart Parts...... Eyes are proven technology, there are a LOT of guns that use them and use them effectively.

COPS has limitations... even with the gated feed. They eye will alwyas be more effective at preventing chops. constant ball position tracked with an eye vs. the one time impact of a ball on the COPS.

but hey, I can sympathize with you OSM. I got to play 1 game with an old single trigger LED and I was looking at my Minimag funny afterwards....

**WhyIsItUpsideDown?** · 10-21-2002, 08:25 PM

I have a RTP, I like it, I can shoot just as fast as most electros(10+bps), but if you cant and dont have retarded fingers like me when it comes to electronic triggers get an electro....
Heck if you aren't satisfied with what you have and the thing you dream about is due till God knows, get what you want.

Now on to the "if the battery goes down". If you forget to charge your angel it can survive another day. If you forget to do it for a while your just plain dumb. Its like maintence on your gun, your fault if it goes down if you don't keep up. Which brings me to the problems rant.

Everything has the probability of going down. Heck a phantom can mess up but its just highly unlikely. I have seen Emags go down. I have seen a lot of guns go down, but the majority of the guns don't. If you say "well Ive seen this *enter gun here* go down, its BS" well have you seen the other guns just like it go down also? Probably not. Its a unique case. Unless the gun has a recall of some sort or all the guns have a problem that needs to get fixed and the problem does get fixed by the company. One case is compared to 50 working guns should not be a reason to say that the gun is crap. I could say "Oh that Emag's board got wet and fried, its BS so your working Emag that shoots fine is BS too.", it is retarded.

**AkaEnder** · 10-21-2002, 09:36 PM

i turned cops off, it slows me down

**EnderWigginPballin** · 10-22-2002, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by AkaEnder
i turned cops off, it slows me down

eh?????? isn't that that the point?????

ps, ur name rocks

**Butterfingers** · 10-22-2002, 03:10 PM

FYI the shot counter bug only appeared in Firmware versions 1.31. Those with this version will have the bug those with later versions or updated boards will not.

**paint magnet** · 10-22-2002, 03:14 PM

Well, lets see, first off, batteries don't just "die", they gradually get weaker and you can tell when that starts to happen. Also, if you can't remember to charge your battery then how are you going to be able to keep up an expensive marker like that? I really doubt the battery would go dead for no reason. What I'm trying to say is that if you can't remember to charge your battery then you shouldn't spend 1500+ bucks on a gun.

And, I don't think I've ever seen an Angel break, I know someone with a '95 Adrenaline and it still works fine. If I had the money, I'd probably buy something other than an Angel, but that's just a preference.

**Trigger_Happy** · 10-22-2002, 04:55 PM

I had though about trading my mag for an electro. What stopped be was this. THE MAG IS JUST DESIGNED BETTER! Great innovations like the z-grip, lvl 10, the entire classic mag valve

, the warp feed, using Nitro, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

They don't come from WDP! The mag was made to be better, and it is.

**EnderWigginPballin** · 10-22-2002, 05:13 PM

Trigger_Happy, while mags have near perfect designs, they're not better than everything else. Everything shoots 300 fps, and you'll perform better with the marker that feels better in your hands. If I think Spyders are really, (i mean really)comfortable, then I'll play best with one.

That's kind of an extreme example, but apply it to high end guns and you suddenly realize that it's all just tastes and preferences.

**OldSchoolMag** · 10-22-2002, 05:33 PM

Thanks guys, I'd nearly forgotten why I'd trusted Mag's (and their owners) in the first place

Hopefully, the Xtremes will be on sale again in March (or sooner!) and then we can all pick one up. Any word on how many will be produced next year?

Thanks alot,
OSM

**banzaimf** · 10-22-2002, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by paint magnet
.....

And, I don't think I've ever seen an Angel break, I know someone with a '95 Adrenaline and it still works fine. If I had the money, I'd probably buy something other than an Angel, but that's just a preference.

a 95 Adrenaline Angel? Are you sure it was a 1995?

Anyways, I know of a fair amount of guys here in Wa. that have had boards fry. Some of them even when it wasn't raining. If you have the money burning a hole in your pocket right now. I would go and buy a nice higher end used electro to see how you like it. If you don't you can sell it and get an extreme when they are out. If you don't have the money now, it's kind of a moot point.

**paint magnet** · 10-23-2002, 02:51 PM

Yes, I'm sure it was 1995, because it was pretty big, didn't have an LCD or any kind of anti-chop thing (I learned that after fanning the trigger) and you could feel gas blowing out from around the breach when you fired.

It still shot good though.

**banzaimf** · 10-23-2002, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by paint magnet
Yes, I'm sure it was 1995, because it was pretty big, didn't have an LCD or any kind of anti-chop thing (I learned that after fanning the trigger) and you could feel gas blowing out from around the breach when you fired. It still shot good though.

Interesting... I was led to believe that the prototype I was playing with at the factory in Birmingham in early 1996 was the first angel that there was. Although, not that I think of it, Jacko was out back plinking with another one, but at the time I was told that none had been released, outside of the factory, except to a few of the "chosen". My unfortunate experience with that one has made it difficult to purchase one, even with all the remarkable upgrades they have done.

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