Mags popularity in tournys

**Big_M** · 05-04-2003, 07:45 PM

Well, I came back from my first tourny and noticed not one mag, I see them occasionaly during open play but thought there would be more, I don't get it, they are small fast, and consistant, not to mention cheaper (well the normal mags) then a lot of high tech crap they got out there, you would think they would be a good tourny gun but that's my opinion, anyone know why mags seem to be lost around the tourny scene?

**Benfica4ever** · 05-04-2003, 07:56 PM

Thats true, All the movies i dowload( alot) never have i seen mags. Thats a good questian

Lopy-slopy · 05-04-2003, 07:57 PM

Because they are not the best guns. Especialy the 68's. X and E mags are tourney quality but they are not widly used. Partly because the X's are back orderd and because Airgun is not a big company. Mag's have a good following of dye hard mag lovers. But their are alot more angel or impy lovers out their. Also, E-Mags and X-Mags cost more than most other tourney guns.

**EsPo** · 05-04-2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Lopy-slopy
Because they are not the best guns. Especialy the 68's. X and E mags are tourney quality but they are not widly used. Partly because the X's are back orderd and because Airgun is not a big company. Mag's have a good following of dye hard mag lovers. But their are alot more angel or impy lovers out their. Also, E-Mags and X-Mags cost more than most other tourney guns.

actually. thats not it (except the small company part)

the only reason you dont see them in the videos you download is because those people only use guns by their sponsors.. and AGD doesnt sponsor. if they did sponsor "they would have to give up half of their emag sales"- miscue.

**WARPED1** · 05-04-2003, 08:17 PM

It's the same reason you don't see remotes. The "pro's" don't use them, so the kid who asks mommy to buy him what the pro's use never even see a mag. It sucks, but thats why!

-=Squid=- · 05-04-2003, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by WARPED1
It's the same reason you don't see remotes. The "pro's" don't use them, so the kid who asks mommy to buy him what the pro's use never even see a mag. It sucks, but thats why!

Im afraid not buddy...

**SyntaxError** · 05-04-2003, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by -=Squid=-

Im afraid not buddy...

Actually, Warped1 is definately right.

Why else would you be shooting an Impulse? Cuz the AA's, Ton-Tons, and loads of other teams are sponsored shoot them, thats why. If none of these teams shot them, you'd see none of them on the field in seroius play.

Like Warped said, it sucks but its true.

**MinimagRockin'** · 05-04-2003, 09:12 PM

I think warped has a point, I mean I don't think that is the end all reason but it certainly is a piece of the puzzle. AGD being a small company and not sponsering also contribute. Another reason is that how many xmags are available? None at the moment. How are tourny players supposed to play with guns they can't get? I would love to see AGD increasing their size and sponsoring (god knows the demand is there, AGD is always out of their new products), if that happend you would see many more mags out there especially considering that all the kids would see these sweet xmags getting used by huge teams like avalanche and the like. It seems like it would make good business sense too, there would be alot more sales resulting in alot more money coming in. One last thing: I think that if AGD updated their stock guns every year or so (like WGP) the market would be all over it. Just imagine walking into your local paintball store and seeing a 2003 68 automag complete with intelli, lx, colorful ule body, and xvalve. That would be alot cooler than walking into the same store and having your eyes pass over a bland grey outdated looking artifact. Hopefully this will be considered constructive critisism. *crosses fingers*

**Jack & Coke** · 05-04-2003, 09:16 PM

Compared to the most visible markers at tournaments today... (i.e. Angel, Intimidator, Impulse, Cocker...)

E-MAG and X-MAG suffer from:

1. Minuscule marketing budget
2. Minuscule production capability
3. No Pro Tourny Player or Team Representation (sponsorship and big names)

That is why you don't see them at tournaments (Pro, Am, Novice, Rookie)

When you do see someone using one, it is because:

1. word of mouth
2. old school die hard
3. crossover from rec ball

I think the XMAG and EMAG are handsdown THE BEST ENGINEERED MARKERS AVAILABLE TODAY.

But that doesn't always translate to what's popular....

Just take a look at one of the most popular fast food chains - McDonald's. They have by far the crapiest food, yet they get dominate the fast food world because they have the biggest and best marketing budgets and strategies - which translates to name recognition and popularity.

If MAGS are to be a force at tournaments, AGD needs to:

1. Shell out $$$ and sponsor the TOP TEAMS and MOST RECOGNIZABLE PLAYERS.

2. Shell out $$$ and increase their current production volume while maintaining high quality control.

3. Shell out $$$ and flood paintball Magazines with advertisments.

...so you see the problem for AGD? where are they going to get the $$$ ???

AGD depends a lot on word of mouth... that means YOU. YOU need to bring your MAGS (don't forget to bring your level 10

) to all your local paintball stores and local tournaments and spread the good gospel!

Can a brutha getta Amen...?

**WARPED1** · 05-04-2003, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by MinimagRockin'
I think warped has a point, I mean I don't think that is the end all reason but it certainly is a piece of the puzzle. AGD being a small company and not sponsering also contribute. Another reason is that how many xmags are available? None at the moment. How are tourny players supposed to play with guns they can't get? I would love to see AGD increasing their size and sponsoring (god knows the demand is there, AGD is always out of their new products), if that happend you would see many more mags out there especially considering that all the kids would see these sweet xmags getting used by huge teams like avalanche and the like. It seems like it would make good business sense too, there would be alot more sales resulting in alot more money coming in. One last thing: I think that if AGD updated their stock guns every year or so (like WGP) the market would be all over it. Just imagine walking into your local paintball store and seeing a 2003 68 automag complete with intelli, lx, colorful ule body, and xvalve. That would be alot cooler than walking into the same store and having your eyes pass over a bland grey outdated looking artifact. Hopefully this will be considered constructive critisism. *crosses fingers*

I agree, it's all in image! But, like you said, it's not the only reason.

**MinimagRockin'** · 05-04-2003, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
Compared to the most visible markers at tournaments today... (i.e. Angel, Intimidator, Impulse, Cocker...)

E-MAG and X-MAG suffer from:

1. Minuscule marketing budget
2. Minuscule production capability
3. No Pro Tourny Player or Team Representation (sponsorship and big names)

That is why you don't see them at tournaments (Pro, Am, Novice, Rookie)

When you do see someone using one, it is because:

1. word of mouth
2. old school die hard
3. crossover from rec ball

I think the XMAG and EMAG are handsdown THE BEST ENGINEERED MARKERS AVAILABLE TODAY.

But that doesn't always translate to what's popular....

Just take a look at one of the most popular fast food chains - McDonald's. They have by far the crapiest food, yet they get dominate the fast food world because they have the biggest and best marketing budgets and strategies - which translates to name recognition and popularity.

If MAGS are to be a force at tournaments, AGD needs to:

1. Shell out $$$ and sponsor the TOP TEAMS and MOST RECOGNIZABLE PLAYERS.

2. Shell out $$$ and increase their current production volume while maintaining high quality control.

3. Shell out $$$ and flood paintball Magazines with advertisments.

...so you see the problem for AGD? where are they going to get the $$$ ???

AGD depends a lot on word of mouth... that means YOU. YOU need to bring your MAGS (don't forget to bring your level 10 ) to all your local paintball stores and local tournaments and spread the good gospel!

Can a brutha getta Amen...?

Amen brutha! But heres how I would get that $$$. First off we know AGD has a demand for their new products that they can't keep up with, so the smart thing to do would be to increase their manufacturing capability. This would result in many more sales increasing the fatness of AGDs wallets. Now with this newfound wallet fatness AGD can now afford to advertise more, and sponsor big name teams. End result? Even fatter wallets. So you see you need to spend in order to make. I would assume that this is a brief description of how many huge companies today rose from a mom and pop shop to a megacorporation.

WarBUCKs · 05-04-2003, 10:01 PM

I really think that alot of this has to do with Marketing. Personally, I feel that all the "other" guns are marketed better than mags. Mags do have a strong following though.

When people shoot my mag they are instantly hooked. When I get my X-Mag I am expecting people to get hooked faster...

We the people market.

edit: I am on Jack & Coke's side on this. Didn't write much, cuz he had the "Gusto." Good job!

I think that AGD likes to be the "underdog." Not underdog in the sense of being the weakest, but they like being small. They create some of the best markers out there and the quality shows when I am out on the field. It does make running a business alot simpler when you are smaller though.

**Blackice7** · 05-04-2003, 10:08 PM

Lopy... How is a 68 mag with an intelli, rt valve, lvl 10 not tourny quality, you see pros shooting autocockers... that set up is better than cockers IMO.

**G-Rock** · 05-04-2003, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Lopy-slopy
Also, E-Mags and X-Mags cost more than most other tourney guns.

Dude where did you get your info from....
Now I may not be comparing these like you did, so forgive me before hand!!

These prices were taken from Paintballgear.com

Emag $799.75 - $999.99 (here is the link http://store.yahoo.com/actionvillage...uns-e-mag.html)

Average Intimidator $994.95 - $1295.00 (http://store.yahoo.com/actionvillage...ball-guns.html)

Matrix $639.95 (http://store.yahoo.com/actionvillage...ball-guns.html)

Smart Parts Impulse $397.75 - $1295.00 (http://store.yahoo.com/actionvillage...s-impulse.html)

Angel Speed $945.00 (http://store.yahoo.com/actionvillage...ball-guns.html)

2003 LCD Angel $850.00 (http://store.yahoo.com/actionvillage...d-edition.html)

All the above are in the same price range as the E-mag!!

Then you have the X-Mag range.....

WDP IR3 $995 - $1429.99 (http://store.yahoo.com/actionvillage...ir3-angel.html)

X-Mag $1400???? (not sure since I paid for mine back in August)

So you may be asking what is this guy saying??

IT AINT THE COST!!! THAT IS LUDICRIOUS!! The problem is not the price, it is in the advertising.

WDP, Samrt Parts, and all the others go out and drop a butt load of money to advertise. This comes in many forms, the most noticable is magazines and, oh yes, the sponsored teams...

I was dead set against using a mag. I fell into the belief that they were blenders, that they weren't accurate, that they were gas hogs...

Well I met this guy one day, and he spent 2 hours talking to us, nto about markers, just talking to us at this tournament. We listened, he listened and we had a great old time. He looked at my cocker at the time, and admired it, even asked me how Iliked it. Then this guy pulled his marker out of his car. It was the lightest marker I had ever held. I was impressed so much by it, and the owner of it, that when I got back home, I called my sponsors and ordered this thing at the time called the Extreme E-mag. It had this nifty invetion called Level 10.

In a matter of 20 minutes, Tom Kaye had changed my whole perception of mags. He proved to me they could be pretty, and that they don't chop paint. Before receiving my X-mag, I bought an Emag, and learned that they did not chop paint with Level 10, and that they were accurate. When my X-Mag came finally, I learned that they were not gas hogs (I get close to 2000rds out of my 68 4500 psi WDP AIR).

The weekend before last, my team took 5th place, but more importantly, we proved mags were quality markers, we had 3 emags, 1 xmag, and an angel (hey not everyone is perfect).

What I am trying to say is, yeah AGD's marketing is kinda below other companies,but be proud in what you use, and tell people about it. Show them what mags can do, and prove all the steortyping wrong.

chris geiger

**Jack & Coke** · 05-04-2003, 11:18 PM

Just to clarify...

What I posted was NOT a rant on AGD.

It was my take in trying to answer Big_M's original question (thread topic):

"...anyone know why mags seem to be lost around the tourny scene?"

**spacedtedybear** · 05-04-2003, 11:48 PM

I believe that the popularity of mags will continue to increase as more quality upgrades and improvements keep on coming at a steady ( but not flooding) rate.
Lets face it, the more we stay true to our mags, and the more use them, the more positive exposure mags will get.

**tye92** · 05-05-2003, 12:15 AM

YOU NEED ANOTHER AMEN BRUTHA, WELL SAID.

**Jack & Coke** · 05-05-2003, 12:31 AM

Halleuya!

**Crazy** · 05-05-2003, 10:43 AM

does agd even make all of their own products in their factory? such as the extreme bodys etc.?

**twiitch** · 05-05-2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by WARPED1
It's the same reason you don't see remotes. The "pro's" don't use them, so the kid who asks mommy to buy him what the pro's use never even see a mag. It sucks, but thats why!

thats the reason, i live in calgary, and teh most common gun here is timmy's. gee i wonder why, we only have mike carey from bob long ironmen/oakland assasins who, of course, use timmys

**wyn1370** · 05-05-2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Crazy
does agd even make all of their own products in their factory? such as the extreme bodys etc.?

last I heard they where still comming form AGD Europe

**hooblerd** · 05-05-2003, 11:50 AM

No doubt that Automags are missing in tourneyments. Its even worse here in Europe. I just played in a tourney with a mag and everyone looked amazed that I was using it. Over here everyone uses Matrix's, Cockers, Angels, and Impulses. With the air bunkers getting smaller and more people opting for throwing paint over tactics and skills, mechanical automags won't be seen on in tourneys.

**Ironmag** · 05-05-2003, 02:12 PM

I remember the last time I played in a tourney, only ONE guy had a mag asides from my 3-Man team, which at the time was all mags. That guys gun was cool, it was a old school RT with a Z-Grip.

**Crazy** · 05-05-2003, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by wyn1370

last I heard they where still comming form AGD Europe

Then this would also hurt their production and profit, so pretty much all agd does in wheeling is assemble them?..

**wyn1370** · 05-05-2003, 03:10 PM

assemble, test, ship

**Jack & Coke** · 05-05-2003, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by wyn1370
assemble, test, ship

...which is pretty much what Bob Long (Intimidator) does also. You can draw your own conclusions...

**cdawg** · 05-05-2003, 03:22 PM

If everyone shot a mag, the paintball community would be significantly larger. I can't begin to say how many people I know personally don't play paintball because of a broken marker, or because their marker is off getting fixed.

**jayloo** · 05-05-2003, 04:22 PM

I am the only mag shoter on my 7-man team and I will not change. I have never had amy problems with my mag that caused a delay of game for any reaseon...ever. My partners well that is another story.

The good news is 2 folks just bought warp feeds for their impys cuz they felt it was almost impossible to win in a shootout.

**gamarada717** · 05-05-2003, 04:36 PM

My only question is, why does it take xmags so long to be produced? Is it mainly the c&c body?

**TheJester** · 05-05-2003, 04:42 PM

actually i got my mag for different reasons than have been stated. i obviously didn't get 1 because they're popular, i'm the only 1 in my area w/ a mag, so that also means i didn't get it by word of mouth. I actually chose a mag because it was something else, i wanted to upgrade, but every 1 and their mothers has a cocker around here, so i looked at a mag, did some research, and here i am, a proud mag owner. so i got mine so i wouldn't be "following the crowd" and boy am i glad i didn't, i love my mag, i'm gonna keep it for a very long time.

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