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Thread: Hyperframe FAQ

  1. #1
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    Post Hyperframe FAQ

    Hyperframe FAQ


    NEW, updated FAQ. Includes new fixes and new SETTINGS. If you are using the old settings, try the new settings instead.


    The following are "reprints" of posts regarding the hyperframe. The title contains a link to the original thread.

    Adjusting the Hyperframe's solenoid, On/Off pin to short

    You probably need a longer on/off pin. I had the same wear pattern and fixed it with a longer on/off pin. Regardless, you want to determine if the sear is engaging fully. To do this, remove the grip panels and the safety (be careful not to loose the spring or the TINY ball bearing). Gas up the marker and fire it a couple of times. See if you can manually move the solenoid plunger away from the sear "leg". You need to have a small gap between the sear leg and the solenoid plunger. If you do have a gap then try and move the sear leg (accessible through the safety hole). It should NOT move. If it does, the pin is not long enough.

    If there is no gap, or it is large, loosen the four VERY small set screws in the top of the grip frame (you will have to remove the grip frame to gain access to them) and move the solenoid.

    Also, you should be using a RT style bumper (clear). They dampen bolt bounce better than the classic bumper (blue). The more the bolt bounces the more it will wear the sear.

    Added: BTW, you can also use a RT pin. They come in various lengths.



    On/off Pin Too Long

    Provided by rjvemt1:
    Centeflag makes the on/off pin in three different lengths. If the pin you have is too long the lower end will mushroom and the frame will 'click' but the gun wont fire. When this happens try wiggling the safety button, if the gun fires the mushrooming is the problem. Take the on/off assembly out of the valve and try to remove the pin from the assembly. If the pin will not come out you have a mushroomed lower end. File the edges so that you can remove the pin, then file the length down or call Centerflag and ask for a new shorter one (you will need to mic the one you have or just ask for the shortest one they make).



    Starting Service Mode.

    With the Hyperframe off, press and hold the bottom button. While still holding the bottom button and before it turns on press and hold the top button. Wait. It will turn on in service mode. When you are done making your changes, press and hold the bottom button to turn it off.



    Level 10 bolt stick?

    I have a broken in (6k plus rounds) level 10 in an automag classic. It is using the largest carrier that does not leak and the longest spring.. I'm using the RT bumper. I also have a hyperframe. When I really get on the trigger and get the rof up I get "bolt stick". The bolt does not reset in the oring; it's protruding into the breech about 1/4 of the way and leaks like crazy. I turn off the air, it resets and I can turn the air back on and everything is fine, until I get the rof up again. I did notice that the RT bumper is a little thicker than the classic bumper. Any ideas?

    BTW, I'm running a 9.6 volt battery pack for the hyperframe instead of a standard 9 volt battery.



    Level 10 bolt "stick" fixed.

    I posted earlier that I thought I was getting bolt "stick" with the level 10 bolt and a Hyperframe. (You can read about it here http://www.automags.org/forums/show...&threadid=63676 ) However, it wasn't sticking on return, it was failing to push the paintball all the way into the barrel and was stopping about the point the power piston came to the end of the oring. The hyperframe was providing a much shorter trigger pull time so the on/off opened before the bolt could get back. Hence, bolt stick. Switching to the shortest spring solved the problem. Just thought someone else might have the same problem.



    Won't turn on

    Provided by nevtangle

    NEW PROBLEM:
    I got a blade trigger from Luke. Installed it, turned on the frame and fired 2 shots. Every pull after that wouldn't fire even though the switch was clicking. The board was displaying the 20 BPS shot mode but didn't register FIRE when the trigger was pulled. I tried to turn it off and back on, but it wouldn't turn off. I disconnected the battery and waited for it to power down., reconnected the battery and tried to turn it back on. Nothing. I can't get it to turn on now. I even tried a new battery. Is the board fried? It worked great this past weekend. I shot 1 1/2 cases at the field and everything was great. Put the new trigger on it and now this.

    Solution:

    That sounds like the switch is engaged (switch contacts inside the switch are making contact) when you power it on. I don't remember if lukes triggers have trigger stops. But if it does then the return stop is too tight. If they don't verify that there is a slight gap between the trigger back and the switch "button". If there is not then pull off the grip panels and loosen the screws that hold the switch in place and see if you can get a gap.

    If it still doesn't power up try removing the switch (leave the wires attached and it plugged into the board) and make sure nothing is touching the contacts on the back of the switch and try powering it on. If that works then something is holding the switch closed enough to make contact (or the contacts on the back of the switch were somehow shorted). If not, well then I don't know...

    I got it working!!! Disconnected the battery for over 15 min to reset the board and its working again. Hugh sigh of relief... thought my board was dead.



    Attention Hyperframe owners, upgrade available

    I just got off the phone with Centerflag Products (makers of the Hyperframe) and they have an upgrade option that I think is a great deal (I don't think it was anything special for me). You can upgrade your existing Hyperframe board for a new full auto board for $45 ($75 - $30 credit for the old board), prices subject to change. This is the new board developed for the auto cocker. It allows full auto and more importantly (at least to me) has a setting for the duration of the solenoid pulse. It can be set from 1ms to 99ms. The two biggest wear problems with the Hyperframe are on/off pins that are too short and a short solenoid pulse. You can get a longer on/off pin, and now you can set the solenoid duration to whatever you want.

    Update. I sent in a working board only to have them tell me it did not. They sent it back to me, and it no longer works. I would suggest sending in the entire frame, maybe even with a battery. They can just turn it on to verify that it works.

    Contact information:

    Centerflag Products
    PO Box 148
    Yorkville, Il 80560

    Phone: 630-553-2611
    Fax: 630-533-2631


    Corrected Service Mode Settings

    I talked to Dennis Ashley at Centerflag and now have what the service mode settings for the new board actually do. I was concerned that I didnt have the correct information. I didnt. This new information has changed my recommended settings. I have tested them and they work better. The old settings were no longer quite up to 20bps fullauto (don't know why). However, changing the settings to the new ones and it was back to 20bps fullauto with no problems. These are better settings.

    Also, I dont know if I convinced Dennis to change their recommended settings, but he did agree that it is better to start with higher settings to get everything working. Once it works you can try and tune the settings to get more battery life. Personally I just prefer to use the plainview 9.6 volt NiMh battery and not worry about battery life.

    Okay, here is what the settings really mean:

    15 - 05. This is the Initial Setting (default is 05). This is the amount of energy send to the solenoid. The correct setting should be between 5 and 10.

    Fd - 20. This is the Fire Delay. This is the "frequency" (in micro-seconds) of the pulsed current used to drive the solenoid. Higher numbers equal more power to the solenoid. They also equal less battery life.

    Fn - 50. This is the Fire Number. This is the solenoid dwell time (in milli-seconds). The larger the number the longer the solenoid holds the sear back.

    These are my new recommended settings:

    15 - 10. Start at 10. When everything works perfectly you can try lower numbers. Lower numbers will increase battery life. This should be the last setting you try to tune.

    Fd 50. This should be strong enough to move the sear but small enough to maintain battery life. Centerflag recommends 20, which might be enough. If you want to try tuning the settings, start with this number.

    Fn - 30. This should give a dwell time of 30 ms. If this doesnt work, try 40. Since the solenoid is much smaller than the emags it may need more time to get moving.


    New Fullauto Service Modes

    THE FOLLOWING DESCRIPTIONS ARE INCORRECT.

    15 - 05. This is the Initial Setting (default is 05). This is the amount of time (in milli-seconds) the solenoid is energized.

    Fd - 20. This is the Fire Delay. This is the "frequency" (in micro-seconds) of the current pulse once the solenoid is closed.

    Fn - 50. This is the Fire Number. This is the solenoid return time (in milli-seconds). The larger the number the slower the return.

    Now, I don't know for sure, but I think that Fd applies to Fn. That is, Fd is the frequency of the pulse for the Fn amount of time. BTW, an Fn number of 0 seems to be 100, NOT 0.

    Settings used to fire at 20bps FULLAUTO (actually fire paint) using a plainview 9.6 volt Ni-MH battery, level 10 bolt and a Halo B:

    15 - 20
    Fd - 50
    Fn - 20



    Installing the safety.

    The parts are very easy to loose. Be very careful.

    1. First, remove the grip frame from the marker.
    2. Place the tiny spring in the small vertical hole in the bottom of the horizontal safety hole.
    3. Place the tiny ball bearing on top of the spring. Be careful not to knock it off.
    4. Take a small allen wrench and insert it in the small vertical hole in the top of the grip frame just above the spring and ball bearing. Press down on the ball bearing until it is completely down inside the hole.
    5. Push the safety "pin" in from the opposite side. Push the safety pin against the allen wrench enough to hold the ball bearing in place.
    6. Slowly remove the allen wrench and slide the safety the rest of the way into place.



    Very slow hyperframe

    Provided by robertjuric

    My problem was the hyperframe was shooting EXTREMLY slow, like around
    3bps. What RelapsedKevin told me was that the solenoid was not resetting properly because of aluminum oxide on the solenoid plunger. So he told me to take some 500grit sandpaper to it. I used 800 and sanded the skinny part of the plunger first. It didn't help to much, so I went back and did the fat side. Amazingly it worked. I just sanded enough so it was shiny again. Now my hyperframe shoots fast!!!



    Intellifeeding a warp to a Hyperframe with a common battery.

    I have read about others having problems intellilinking a hyperframe with a warp when they both use the same battery. I had the same problem. I tried various combinations of diodes to isolate the warp from the hyperframe with no luck. I gave up on the diodes when I let the smoke out of one (they never work right once you let the smoke out ). To isolate the warp I use a reed relay. When the solenoid is activated it closes the relay (same as closing a switch) and signals the warp to spin. With this setup you put the warp intellilink jumper on the top (same as when using a switch). The current draw from the relay (11 ma) isn't enough to affect the solenoid (at least on mine, but I do have the "power" setting at 9). The relay is Radio Shack part number 275-233 which is a SPST - 12VDC Reed Relay.

    Here is a simple diagram that illustrates how to install the relay:
    <img src=http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=659055">


    Alternative connection posted by xen_100:
    Another way to do it it to use a STDP solid state relay. rewire the trigger to activate the relay. then use one relay pole to "trigger" the frame circuit and the other pole to make the warp run. it take about 30 mintues and you have to rewire the grip a little. but its not hard and it 100% isolates the two circiuts.

    (PS: this will work for boo-yaah, ESP, dragun, centerflag, etc grips as well)

    <img src="http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=659595">


    And yet another alternative connection posted by sniper1rfa

    I have found that connecting just the negative lead of the solenoid to the intellifeed (to the tip of the connector) and setting it to (-) works. It's the positive lead that causes problems. No need for funky parts that way, too. :-)



    Intellifeed w/o a common battery.

    Provided by robertjuric

    What I did was take the shield wire of the intellifeed cable, splice it with the black wire coming from the battery. Then the middle I twisted around the very bottom post of the trigger switch.



    Hyperframe Trigger Job - By Rudy

    Ok a while ago some one asked about the hyper frame and discussion was brought up about the trigger pull and I said at the time that I would probably look into it over the summer. Well I just did and I was able to improve the trigger pull on my mag hyper frame. I personally really like it but others may disagree. There appears to be one problem with this you will not be able to use the hyper mode unless your trigger job turns out better then mine. When in hyper mode the gun would just go full auto even after you let off the trigger you would have to push the trigger out to get it to stop. I could fix this by sanding down the switch possibly. But if I sand down the inside I will lose the quick response of the trigger job if I sand the outside it will not be as tight as I like it. At a later time I will pull out my spare switch and mess with all these variables to see if I can get something I like. So for now I will show you what was done. And some options you can experiment with.

    I decided I wanted to leave the original switch unchanged that way if I broke something I still had back up. I went to radio shack took my brothers adrenaline angel and my mag we asked the sales person if she could get us the switch from the angel and if there would be an easy way to mount it with the existing setup. They don't have that switch but we found another one that looked almost the same as the one in the hyper frame it fits the switch screw hole perfectly so I would not need to rig anything complicated up. They also did not have the connector to plug into the board. So first we looked through all the recycled batteries for on with a connector that would work after not finding one I bought a 10$ phone battery with the right connector. Since It already had the wires I did not have to buy wire too.

    Here is a link to the switch Sorry I don't have the box or remember the model of the battery.

    Radio Shack Lever Switch

    <img src="http://www.msu.edu/%7Eslouppau/hyper0.jpg">

    Take out the battery. Next take out the 2 switch screws and rotate the switch out then unplug it from the board

    Now all you have to do is build a new switch the same as the original with your new lever switch and phone battery just cut the connector off the battery make sure you have enough length to reach from the switch mount to the board. Then strip about inch off the end of the 2 wires. Then run the stripped ends through the holes in contacts on the switch. Put the red wire to contact 1(end closer to button) and the black with wire through contact 3 (middle). I don't think it really matters what wire goes to which contact so long as they are in 1 and 3. Now solder them in place.

    <img src="http://www.msu.edu/%7Eslouppau/hyper1.jpg">

    Next you need to get the switch ready. Open the case of the switch their will be several places the casing snaps onto the switch simply use a pick or knife to pry it off carefully

    <img src="http://www.msu.edu/%7Eslouppau/hyper2.jpg">

    First take out the external lever you will not need that for the hyper frame. Then you need to look at the switch and find where the spring is mounted contact 1. What you need to do is bend that spring mount on contact 1 so that it puts less tension on the spring this will also lower the spring's position. Use a pair of needle nosed pliers to end it in about 45 degrees should be good. You can slide contact 1 out or try to do it with the switch still assembled.

    <img src="http://www.msu.edu/%7Eslouppau/hyper3.jpg">

    You can also just do this same thing to the original but I don't think it will be as good because the original switch button does has a recess in it and is a more stiff switch. I tested this by pressing them together and the radio shack switch closed before the Centerflag switch.

    Now you can carefully reassemble the switch and snap the case back on. Should look almost the same as the center flag switch now.

    <img src="http://www.msu.edu/%7Eslouppau/hyper4.jpg">

    Now rotate the switch back into the slot and line it up with the mounting holes. I had trouble getting the screws to go into the threads on the far side of the grip frame to fasten the switch in place. What I ended up doing was rounding the ends of the screw then just moving them around till they dropped in the holes and screwed them in the rest of the way.

    <img src="http://www.msu.edu/%7Eslouppau/hyper5.jpg">

    Plug the connector back into the board, put the battery back in and the grip panels back on. Now air it up turn on the power and see if it works. Any one who does this please let me know if you are having problems with hyper mode or any other modes.

    I found this trigger job actually fires the gun almost as soon as you touch the trigger more like a good angel trigger job rather then at the back of the pull. My next project with the trigger will be to add a trigger stop to eliminate the unneeded excess pull your trigger now has. It is also much lighter then the Centerflag switch.
    Last edited by hitech; 06-06-2006 at 11:02 AM.


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  2. #2
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    I called up centerflag and asked about the upgrade...they said it was 75$! not 35! DO i have to tell them ill trade in my old on? or what is this?!!
    Good Trader: Jet-Xino, Legato, bpinoy730, mpyacfo, ring

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  3. #3
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    Originally posted by Wank107
    I called up centerflag and asked about the upgrade...they said it was 75$! not 35! DO i have to tell them ill trade in my old on? or what is this?!!
    Yes you do. Also, they give you a credit of $30 for your existing board. I got the new board for less because they quoted me $65 for the new board. I'll have to fix the price in my FAQ.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the info man!

  5. #5
    Nice finger nails.

    May not be an E-mag, but at least I got myself a mag.
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    Seen for a second, remembered forever...

  6. #6
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    Talking Thanks for the FAQ/ mods!

    FYI

    1. Radio Shack switch: Model number 275-017A SPDT Submini Roller Lever Switch. $4.95? w/o tax

    2. Radio Shack battery with similar pc board connection: Cordless Telephone Nickel-Cadmium Rechargeable Battery 2.4V 350mAh Model number 23-954. $9.99 w/o tax

    Anyone know what the threading of the microswitch mount screws are? The countersunk philips screws have their heads slightly stripped. Don't want to pay a 1000% markup if I can help it. Thanks.
    team PAIN "it's not fun and games until somebody gets hurt."
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  7. #7
    a note on tweaking the switch-

    inside, bend the NC connector pad towards the NO pad, holding the switch's contact closer to the NO pad to start with. this will give much less throw and much lighter snap.
    you can also tweak the NO pad closer to the NC one as well.. just close up the gap that the switch pad has to travel, while keeping the spring's snap point right in the middle of the two.

    out!
    ColinMoritz

    Chord, Chord V2, Dallara, Karta, current project: (coming soon)

  8. #8
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    I replaced my microswitch and manged to set it up so that the pull is adjustable using the lower screw. Details at:

    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=80718
    STORM UK
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    http://www.stormpaintballteam.com

  9. #9
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    thanx a million man!! i have a tourney comin up in like 3 days and i need 2 fix my gun and i now know wat the solution is and its super simple! thanx again! any1 w/ a hyperframe should definately bookmark this thread!

  10. #10
    Lemon Guest
    What is the max BPS with a 'full auto board'ed Hyperframe?

    If it is a mere 15 then why spend like 460 bucks on the frame, then another 70 for a new board?

    For the cost of a used mag, used lx bolt, ule body, a barrel, and a Hyperframe with this new board, I could buy a used matrix and upgrade it right away.

  11. #11
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    The maximum rate is 20bps. I imagine Hitech set it to 15 so he didn't outshoot his hopper. There are videos on the Oddysey website of them firing a classic Hyperframed 'Mag at 20bps from a Halo.

    You can pick Hyperframes up much cheaper than $460, even new ones. They frequently turn up secondhand for $160-$200.

    Incidentally my Hyperframed Warped Classic/Retro Mag (non ULE) is lighter than my X-Mag....

  12. #12
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    I updated the FAQ to include my results from firing at 20bps fullauto. Also, my brother (he has the hyperframe now) did the trigger job and now has a 4 quarter trigger.

  13. #13
    Lemon Guest
    You say 20bps fullauto.
    What about semi?

    ----
    I don't think I would ever buy an X-Mag. Too pricey and you could turn a stanard feed mag into a better overall gun.

    [edit] Nevermind the question, I found out. Hey pbR2K2 you dissin' the nails. Peep mine: http://www.pbase.com/image/20838515 [/edit]
    Last edited by Lemon; 09-06-2003 at 06:59 PM.

  14. #14
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    Thumbs down

    Originally posted by Lemon
    What is the max BPS with a 'full auto board'ed Hyperframe?

    If it is a mere 15 then why spend like 460 bucks on the frame, then another 70 for a new board?

    For the cost of a used mag, used lx bolt, ule body, a barrel, and a Hyperframe with this new board, I could buy a used matrix and upgrade it right away.
    because if you buy a trix ...... you don't have a mag ..... and thats bad for you ..... mags , even with an hyperframe , are far more reliable than a trix ......

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Lemon
    You say 20bps fullauto.
    What about semi?
    Same thing, 20BPS semi also.

  16. #16
    Lemon Guest
    Originally posted by Lemon
    You say 20bps fullauto.
    What about semi?

    ----
    I don't think I would ever buy an X-Mag. Too pricey and you could turn a stanard feed mag into a better overall gun.

    [edit] Nevermind the question, I found out. Hey pbR2K2 you dissin' the nails. Peep mine: http://www.pbase.com/image/20838515 [/edit]

    This is more to test my new sig than anything...

    ...annnnd pbase is crap because they don't allow remote linking!

  17. #17
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    old thread but it seems that you guys are the only one who can help me. My hyperframed mag has every upgrade a mag can have. My problem is that my 20 bps board doesnt allow me to shoot 20 bps or even 10bps no matter what the bps mode is on. I can walk the trigger and I fire a little faster than a manual marker... any ideas?
    N.A.T.O.




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  18. #18
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    Updated with new fixes and new settings.

  19. #19
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    I figured I would ressurect this wonderful thread with my current settings, not like it matters because Centerflag cant make a consistant product.

    15-08
    Fd-36
    Fn-20

    I have Level 10 installed with smallest spring and very tight carrier, ULT'd Retro-Valve and a 10g Microswitch in the Hyperframe. I can consistantly shoot about 17bps with these settings with only the occasional bolt lockup.

    [3-7-04][[18:58] [Fred-O] Dizzo and I stripped yesterday... a lot of anno off some parts of mine that is...

  20. #20
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    T-board

    Just had to revive this old thread because

    http://www.scenariodreams.com/t-board.htm
    ^^^

    Do you think the t-board would be compatible with the hyperframe without extensive modifications? I dont have a hyperframe to reference but do the mounting holes line up?
    I think the hyperframe could benefit with debounce and eyes.
    "Don't stoned i'm shoot" -someoneiforget

  21. #21
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    I don't have a hyperframe in front of me, but I doubt the mounting holes will line up. However, it wouldn't be all that difficult to mount it. It looks like it should work fine. The cap. is smaller than the hyperframe one, but it would probably work. The cap is cheap enough and could be replaced easy enough if it were too small to handle higher ROFs.


  22. #22
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    I might try this, if I do I'll make a thread

    Thanks for your help.

  23. #23
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    This thread is very helpful. Thanks Hitech. I did the on/off mod and a few adjustments of mine own and now with my 20bps board I can outshoot my halo. I'll post a video later. Thanks.

  24. #24
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    You guys using any shims for the ult trigger??
    check out my feedback

  25. #25
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    time to bring back a very helpful thread for all those new hyperframe owners out there.

    I just bought a new Hyperframe and it works great. I had some problems with the micro switch so I bought a new one from Radio Shack and it works ever better than any switch I've had before. Very easy to walk now.

    I'm willing to answer any questions about the hyperframe if anyone is having problems with thiers. If you are looking for any upgrades to your hyperframe then check out Luke's upgrades here: Luke's Custom Hyperframe Triggers and Grips

  26. #26
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    Hi.

    The rt-pin does not fit im my Hyperframe-on/off. To much in diameter. Even centerflag told me it would fit. But it doesnt.

  27. #27
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    a stock RT on/off pin will not fit the Centerflag on/off that comes with the hyperframe. If for some reason it does fit it shouldn't work because, like you said it's too wide. The on/off that centerflag sent out with the hyperframe was a pre version of the ULT kit that AGD finally made. It lowers the force needed to activate the on/off system in the valve and works great for the sear to trip, but is not recomended to use with a mech frame because it will short stroke like nothing else. Your best bet is to try and have centerflag send you a new on/off pin or just buy a full ULT kit which works much better regardless.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sk8ermog
    time to bring back a very helpful thread for all those new hyperframe owners out there.

    I just bought a new Hyperframe and it works great. I had some problems with the micro switch so I bought a new one from Radio Shack and it works ever better than any switch I've had before. Very easy to walk now.

    I'm willing to answer any questions about the hyperframe if anyone is having problems with thiers. If you are looking for any upgrades to your hyperframe then check out Luke's upgrades here: Luke's Custom Hyperframe Triggers and Grips
    I just got my hyperframe bolted on my mag. I put a few hundred shots though it and kept checking for wear on the bolt, seems fine. Only problem I seem to be having is during rapid firing. During a fast burst it chuffs and almost seems like shortstroking or the Lvl 10 is engaging.
    Can't be the LVL 10 because I wasn't shooting paint??? Right?
    Can't be shortstroking the trigger because the noid is tripping the sear??? Right?

    I tried removing a Lvl 10 shim or 2 but didn't seem to help.

    The marker works perfectly with the intelliframe on it.

    I don't know what might cause this. Low battery? It works pretty good except when I really get on the trigger. It hiccups and resets and rips off a few more shots, then over agian.

    X valve w/ perfectly tuned Lvl 10
    ULT w/ 7 shims (I think)
    Hyperframe 20bps board

  29. #29
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    Try taking a couple of shims out of the ult. See how that works.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The 101 Freeway - SoCal
    Posts
    372
    Quote Originally Posted by 11 Bravo
    Try taking a couple of shims out of the ult. See how that works.
    I'll give that a try.

    Thanks.

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