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Thread: Superlight Mag Trigger?

  1. #1
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    Superlight Mag Trigger?

    Last night my mind was inordantely fertile.... People were complaining about how the LX changed the feel of the trigger on a mag. IIRC Rob even put the L7 back into his classic mag becuase he prefered it's feel.

    Let me set the scene. For this to work, it requires a properly setup LX. And it will require a new bolt and sear for any of this to work. Ideally it would use a new on/off too.

    The current mag bolt and sear is designed so that no matter how much force is on the mags bolt the sear will still hold. Its a locking design for all intents and purposes. What if we used the bolt's force to our advantage? Like they do on a cocker. Setup the sear so that the bolts force trys to force the sear down. This force will ballance against the on/off making the trigger feel softer. And you won't be dragging the sear the whole way across the bolt, once you start it moving the shape of the bolt will help you move the sear.

    Cockers have been like this for a very long time. They have a sear that's shaped so that just a breath of force on them will cause them to move across the sear lug and drop the hammer. And people good with cockers have known that changing the shape of the sear and lug would change the feel of the trigger pull on a cocker.... the same is true for a mag. Just the forces have been so high that I don't think it would have been a sane move untill the advent of the LX.

    Here is my idea for making a mag's trigger much lighter. As it stands where the sear interface is a cone facing the back of the gun now, you'd have a cone that faced the front of the gun. And instead of a convex face on the sear, you'd need a concave one. Or you could even go a more conservative route and go with a flat bolt face and sear with a flat face as well.

    Of course this leads to another idea. You could tune mag trigger feel with differnet angles and different shapes of the sear and bolt. Just like the cocker...

    Becuase the bolt isn't locking, you'll probally want to time the mag more conservatively (aka longer on/off pin) And that would ensure that the bolt "locked up." A term that's not quite apropreate for a cone shaped bolt interface.

    Picture one is the current bolt and sear setup. Picture two is a less radical design, but more prone to wear. Picture three is what i'm imagining. All of these are exagerated and not to scale, and don't show room for the boltspring, but the idea should come through.


    Image courtasy of KPaint, not MSpaint ;-)
    Last edited by nerobro; 04-28-2003 at 12:27 PM.
    To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

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  2. #2
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    Now there are some concerns with this. Without a properly setup LX the gun will effectively go full auto. turning on and off the on/off and fireing the gun completely ;-) interesting failure mode if you ask me. sorta like a spyder!

    Actually if done right, as soon as you altered the contact of the sear, the gun could jsut slip into a full shot. the triggger could be really freaking short and the gun would "fall" into the rest of the fireing cycle...
    Last edited by nerobro; 04-28-2003 at 12:19 PM.

  3. #3
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    Be patient grasshopper....


    AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

    cphilip.com

  4. #4
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    Thats a pretty good idea! But like you stated, it does have potential problems. If those could be worked through, that would be awesome!
    -Gig 'Em Ags!

  5. #5
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    i think cphillip knows something we don't......so when's it come out cphil?

  6. #6
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    Wha?

    I not know nuttin....

  7. #7
    Originally posted by cphilip
    Be patient grasshopper....
    Ok.

  8. #8
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  9. #9
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    Judging from phil's response and the fact that not too long ago there was a bunch of discussion about a really light mechanial trigger vs. electro, plus the whole thread about measuring the force to pull a trigger, I would say that Tom is working on something similar to this that would exploit the new characteristics of LX.

    Hopefully.
    <---Should be banned for circumventing the cuss filter.

  10. #10
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    Lets hope I didn't create an artifical leak. This is just me thinking late at night stuff.... *hopes he's not in troubble*

  11. #11
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    No you did not. At least I do not know if you did not. I have no idea how he accomplished what I cannot say he accomplished...

  12. #12
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    What irks me is not only cphilip's teasing reply, but that damn frog! The frog, it mocks us!!! It mocks us!!!


  13. #13
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    my mag trigger is light. i did no shaving on the sear of the on off pin. but its a .5mm pull about as light as a medium e trigger

    To leave feedback: Click seller/buyers name, Click feedback score, Click leave feedback

  14. #14
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    A very interesting idea indeed.

    Now, what if you made the lip of the bolt face removable. You'd still have the little "flange" at the back of the bolt, but you'd put a steel washer on it before you put the bolt inside the mainspring. Now you could play with different washers which would have having varrying angles where they contact the sear.

    I think, though, that were it my gun, I'd want a hard safety (a la the emag) that would prevent not just the trigger from moving but also the sear.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Cristobal
    I think, though, that were it my gun, I'd want a hard safety (a la the emag) that would prevent not just the trigger from moving but also the sear.
    thats a great idea, maybe instead of locking the trigger we lock the sear

  16. #16
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    BTAutomag, i don't think we're talking about trigger pull distance. ie. .5mm

    i think we're talking about trigger pull weight.

  17. #17
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    .5mm? Holy cow, how in the world... Without modifying?

  18. #18
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    nope, i accualy added a part. i wont say what becasue my best friend is making an mpeg that ill post later in the week

    and skoad, yea the distance is short but the pull is light too as i stated above

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by cphilip
    Be patient grasshopper....
    How patient?

  20. #20
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    from the movie the mummy

    "patience is a virtue"
    "NOT RIGHT NOW IT AIN'T"

  21. #21
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    ya know
    ever since Tom started hinting at it a little while back..
    measuring pull weights and such
    i've been dreaming and drooling about the idea
    oh man
    i can barely stand it
    that along with an rt and level 10
    who needs an xmag
    TheDuelist "The problem is that Tom has developed the VW Beetle of the paintball industry. It's almost too good to change and far too reliable."

  22. #22
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    ooooooo
    ME!!!!!!
    do you accept IOUs

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by Jerhew
    ya know
    ever since Tom started hinting at it a little while back..
    measuring pull weights and such
    i've been dreaming and drooling about the idea
    oh man
    i can barely stand it
    that along with an rt and level 10
    who needs an xmag

    Ahhh now someone else remembers him doing that...

  24. #24
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    oooo i remember i remember

  25. #25
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    The original thread is still on the front page: A BIG Trigger Question!!!!!!. How could anyone forget?

  26. #26
    Hmmmmm, interesting :: in funny voice ::

    Maybe I'll go back to the mag sometime when Tom starts releasing some new stuff
    (by request, reset by Army)

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by magnj
    Hmmmmm, interesting :: in funny voice ::

    Maybe I'll go back to the mag sometime when Tom starts releasing some new stuff

    Well I guess its now time...

    Intelliframes....Level 10...ULE bodies...X Mags....Time has come then...

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by cphilip



    Ahhh now someone else remembers him doing that...

    He's not the only one, I've gone through half my sears and on off pins trying to figure out a reliable way to do it.

    Grrr 40 bucks in parts down the drain..... I'd kill to beta test this!

  29. #29
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    I really think the secret is in the bolt shape as it appears to the the sear... if done right the gun will fire itself as soon as the sear is allowed to BEGIN to move.

    I wanna see what tom is working on ;-)

  30. #30
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    Have you tried altering a level 7 bolt? I don't really want to mess with my L10 bolt.

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