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Thread: AGD's Relply to the Wait on Xmags (long)

  1. #151
    ben_JD Guest

    Re: Rebel

    Originally posted by ddinwdc
    Why don't you address my "grammatical errors"? I would thoroughly enjoy watching you try.
    Well, if you are asking for a critique, you did use the phrase "I could care less" in a previous post when I think you meant to say "I could not care less".

    This is a maddeningly common error, but you did ask.

  2. #152
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    Siiigh!

    I've already posted in this thread and feel I made my point clear, but all this anger has made me want to reiterate some things. I too was a long time mag user and then shyed away from the sport for a while. When I decided to get a new marker I bought a used mag because I always loved them and never had any of the problems people talked about. One day I decided to order some nubbins and went to airgun.com. Lo and behold I found AO and have been here ever since. If it wasn't for AO I would know nothing of the Intelliframe, RT valve, ULE, PLASTIC NUBBINS HOORAY!! and a whole host of other gret things that AGD has done. No one around here has any respect for mags or sells them. I don't like this situation and am glad for AO because of it. I think what people's anger is moreso the availability of the AGD products. See, if we had options as to where to purchase these items, then life would be different. The ONLY place to get a ULE, XMAG or other great AGD product for some of us, maybe more than I think, is here or AGD's site. This can be frustrating. Frustration often times leads to anger. Then anger leads to relatively sedate and pecable people screaming and yelling at each other. This seems to be the situation now. I don't like the fact that some people have to resort to name calling, flaming or any other non-civilized method of communication, but it has happened. In short, everyone stop getting insulted, take a breather and realize that everyone who has posted has made some pretty valid points. I hope more AGD products are available sooner, I would wait for them, but I wouldn't like it of course. I hope Tom reads all these posts and doesn't get as angry as I would probably get if I was him. I hope he sees a loyal bunch of enthusiasts whose frustrations have boiled pretty high and some venting is going on. There is much constructive criticism amongst the angry tirades, youjust gotta look a little harder. Keep up the good work and please everyone...... PLAY NICE!!
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  3. #153
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    Re: Siiigh!

    Originally posted by madmatt151
    I've already posted in this thread and feel I made my point clear, but all this anger has made me want to reiterate some things. I too was a long time mag user and then shyed away from the sport for a while. When I decided to get a new marker I bought a used mag because I always loved them and never had any of the problems people talked about. One day I decided to order some nubbins and went to airgun.com. Lo and behold I found AO and have been here ever since. If it wasn't for AO I would know nothing of the Intelliframe, RT valve, ULE, PLASTIC NUBBINS HOORAY!! and a whole host of other gret things that AGD has done. No one around here has any respect for mags or sells them. I don't like this situation and am glad for AO because of it. I think what people's anger is moreso the availability of the AGD products. See, if we had options as to where to purchase these items, then life would be different. The ONLY place to get a ULE, XMAG or other great AGD product for some of us, maybe more than I think, is here or AGD's site. This can be frustrating. Frustration often times leads to anger. Then anger leads to relatively sedate and pecable people screaming and yelling at each other. This seems to be the situation now. I don't like the fact that some people have to resort to name calling, flaming or any other non-civilized method of communication, but it has happened. In short, everyone stop getting insulted, take a breather and realize that everyone who has posted has made some pretty valid points. I hope more AGD products are available sooner, I would wait for them, but I wouldn't like it of course. I hope Tom reads all these posts and doesn't get as angry as I would probably get if I was him. I hope he sees a loyal bunch of enthusiasts whose frustrations have boiled pretty high and some venting is going on. There is much constructive criticism amongst the angry tirades, youjust gotta look a little harder. Keep up the good work and please everyone...... PLAY NICE!!
    WOW! you've got tons of guts to say that to a whole bunch of angry flame happy people... I wanted to do that but I didn't want to get yelled at or anything.

    .
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  4. #154
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    Ok, this was actually going somewhere before everyone got goofy on each other. I slogged through all of it, hopefully Tom will too.

    Tom, thanks for this thread, you obviously invested some time on it, and it cleared a lot of things up for me. So much in fact, that I apologize if it seemed I was bashing on the other thread. For one, I wasn't aware that AGDUS is dependent on AGDE for the bodies and was unable to supply them itself. (Many of the regular AOs seem to think everyone knows what's previously been hashed out on the forum.) Mostly I was venting some frustrations at seeing AGD miss out on a really good opportunity to put to rest a lot of the flack it takes from non-AGD fans and gain some market share. I realize you've got a company to think of, and it's much easier for the rest of us to be "armchair CEOs" without knowing all that's going on.

    (General thoughts):
    The X-Mag definitely gives the Angel a run for its money as top dog, but since the X's debut, other guns have greatly improved as well. Timis are hot with a lot of people, the Orracle is up-and-coming, and SP is releasing the Shocker and Nerve. Paintballers are a weird lot, some easily buy into hype, some only go by personal experience. For a long time the Mag had a bad rep as the AutoBlender, and it still surprises me how many people cling to that when the Level 10 is so widespread. (Personally, I never chopped a Mag before the Lv10 came out. A Cocker is another matter, I'll shortstroke one in 3 shots. Go figure.) The X-Mag flies in the face of this rep, but only if enough people get to try it or see it in action. The E-Mag is essentially the same gun, but a lot of current non-AGD people either don't realize it or find it ugly. Silly reasons not to get a great gun, but the missed sale is the important thing. The ULE stuff is a nice way to skirt any possible non-compete issue with AGDE while offering most of the same benefits as the X (weight/appearance). It's just frustrating to know that you can open a paintball magazine and see an X-Mag, but it won't be on a dealer page.

    Manike's logic on the car analogy is fatally flawed. A Viper may get people into the door of a Dodge dealership, but that doesn't guarantee that someone will buy an Intrepid because the Viper's on backorder. Someone looking for a Viper isn't going to settle for that. They're probably gonna walk over to the Chevy place down the street to buy a Vette or go over to the Porsche dealership. They're gonna make that same trip down the street if there's a Viper in stock, but it's baby-poop yellow with a peach lace interior. X-Mags that sat in a shop could very easily have been passed over because someone wanted blue rather than red or green. If someone's gonna plop down $1,500 on a gun, it's going to be exactly what they want.

    Lastly, guys this is already a 6-page sticky for God's sake. Do we really need to get into personal bickering? Debate a point with someone if you don't agree with it, but at least be mature about it.
    Last edited by TequilaMockingbird; 05-15-2003 at 12:58 AM.

    "You actually expect me to play in a field of balloons?"

  5. #155
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    Good lord, I spent so long on my reply that Madmatt beat me to it. *d'oh!*

  6. #156
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    /me raises iron fist.

    ddinwdc. I have a shortcut on my desktop ready to ban you.

    Quit trolling, being disruptive, and swearing. You have been warned. There will be no second warning.

  7. #157
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    Originally posted by TequilaMockingbird
    Manike's logic on the car analogy is fatally flawed. A Viper may get people into the door of a Dodge dealership, but that doesn't guarantee that someone will buy an Intrepid because the Viper's on backorder.
    I never said they would, an intrepid isn't a good comparison to a Viper. The E-mag isn't that far off the X-mag...

    It's like someone going for a Red rose Corvette, but then just deciding to get the regular vette.

    And so what if they can't get the Red Rose and go down the street to buy a Viper? They at least saw the other Chevy products and now know a little more about them and what is available. Next time they are looking for the wife or for something different who knows they may go and buy that intrepid.

    You can't tell me the analagy is flawed when people have already stated in this exact thread that they have done it!

    Look at RP he now owns (or has owned) 6 mags that he never would have otherwise! He has been known to buy them and give them away as presents because he knows the standard mag is a relaible gun with LX. He wouldn't have known that if he hadn't come in to see the X-mag and stopped to understand the Intrepid

  8. #158
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    Yes I am reading all these posts. Now I am off to the Megameet and will digest them over the weekend.

    AGD

  9. #159
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    and I'm off to LIBG, see you all after the weekend and some at the weekend.

    I hope the Mega Meet goes well.

    Have fun!

    Simon

  10. #160

    You know what, Miscue? Do it.

    Stop talking about it and just do it already. You guys really get off on the power trip, and your members are people I no longer want to associate with. You think I care if I get banned from AO? Do you think that will make even the slightest impact on my life? I have been nothing but courteous, and have never flamed anyone without provocation. Have I come to the defense of children as they were mercilessly berated by grown men twice their age? Yes. Have I responded to people who--rather than engage in intelligent debate--resorted to name-calling? Sure. But I defy you to show me where I cussed. Wanker? That's not a cuss word in this country, but I removed it anyway. I could curse in Japanese if you want me to (as someone has already done in this thread, but I guess you missed that one, huh?), but you wouldn't understand it either, so why would it matter? I come here to express my opinion, not to pick fights. Clearly, you people have a problem with someone who speaks his or her mind and (gasp) challenges the status quo. So go ahead, hypocrite, ban me. I guess your rules don't apply to people whose opinion you agree with. And you know what else? If I ever feel like it, I'll set up another account with a different email address and come right back. But don't worry, that won't happen.
    Last edited by ddinwdc; 05-15-2003 at 10:24 AM.

  11. #161
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    Stamping feet and pounding fist!!!

    Damn, I am missing both the megameet and the LIBG!! Kind of glad, how would I have picked between the two! Off topic, I know... sorry.

  12. #162
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    You contradict yourself in EVERY sentance you wrote. Your actions do at least... You cannot seem to express yourself without hostility and anger. I suggest you seek some help.

    So be it then. At your request and for the good of the boards.

    And no... you won't come back. Clever boy I will ban your IP too...

    If you wish to discuss this further email me at cphilip@clemson.edu

    Until then good luck to you and I wish you well.

  13. #163
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    Man, for an information thread this deteriorated fast into a flame fest. What'd we have, three official square-off's between members and one banning? Damn...that was all totally uncalled for.

    I don't know about anyone else, but I got a lot better understanding of what's going on with the X-Mag and it's production out of this thread at least. I was under the impression the X was the new flagship marker for AGD, when in reality it's not. It's more like a special edition of the E-Mag only available in small quantities for the hardened AGD enthusiast. This is where my animosity and confusion came from on the X...this misunderstanding of it's role in the AGD product line. I had thought this was the direction the company was taking it's markers as a whole, when in reality the product isn't financially feasable as a full production marker.

    I think the X is a very sweet marker no doubt. I won't be waiting to get one because it doesn't mean that much to me, but I can understand why some folks will.

  14. #164
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    Re: AGD's Reply to the Wait on Xmags (long)

    Originally posted by AGD
    More were sitting at Predator Marketing in CA for weeks until an AO guy found them and bought them. This is even after I made a personal appearance out there to show them the marker and get them charged about it.
    OH OH OH, he is talkin about MEEEE

    i bought one of those
    Black CnC Xmag Serial #XT00210


    I don't know about you, but as for me and my house, we will serve the 'mag

    Click Here to AIM Daroach...

  15. #165
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    DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!!!

    Originally posted by cphilip
    You contradict yourself in EVERY sentance you wrote. Your actions do at least... You cannot seem to express yourself without hostility and anger. I suggest you seek some help.

    So be it then. At your request and for the good of the boards.

    And no... you won't come back. Clever boy I will ban your IP too...

    If you wish to discuss this further email me at cphilip@clemson.edu

    Until then good luck to you and I wish you well.

  16. #166
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    Re: AGD's Reply to the Wait on Xmags (long)

    Originally posted by AGD
    AO,

    This is in response to to the many threads currently running about AGD's ablility to deliver product.
    AGD
    Tom,
    I few questions for ya. First, I would have posted in here ealry had I seen this post.

    Roller triggers:
    I am kinda lost on the roller trigger issue. I thought AO wanted and intagrated wheel trigger and not 2 big wheels on each side of the trigger?

    Other comments:
    I guess my last comment on this issue or any other product AGD makes; there needs to be some real marketing done. I cannot afford to buy an Xmag, then a Ygrip, then an Xvavle for my mini. So appearantly some folks in AO are going to be tapped out for funds. (to be honest it isnt a money issue but a wife kicking my butt issue)

    You have a few choices, market AO and sell direct here or sell to the dealership outside of AO.

    My personal belief that you can have the best products in the world, however w/o a key marketing stradgy(sp) all your work is for not. *WARNING* This is going to sound real bad, butt Tom maybe you should spend more time on marketing plans and less on AO. Now that doesn't mean I dont like you and you shouldnt post. ... It does mean that your time is very valuable and it should be spent on projects. You can still read and post on AO, however have some of your faithful mods email you with important subjects and post accordingly. I am willing to bet that your time (per hour if you will) is way more than that of your mods. Think how much money it costs AGD to have the CEO on here posting!!!!

    Again thanks for posting Tom, as well as other folks whom have posted on here in an approraite manor.

    jb

    Edit: sorry my spelling sux, just to lazy to run through MS.

  17. #167
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    Re: Re: AGD's Reply to the Wait on Xmags (long)

    Originally posted by gtrsi
    Roller triggers:
    I am kinda lost on the roller trigger issue. I thought AO wanted and intagrated wheel trigger and not 2 big wheels on each side of the trigger?
    I might can answer that part some...

    For one there was two kinds of rollers in the eventual kit that was sold. One single roller for Blade triggers and the double disc one for Grooved triggers. The Grooved one like Chris's prototype could not be fastened on without milling out a slot the trigger itself. And with an emag trigger that disturbs the magnet as well. All this making it less appealing to an add on bracket type set up. And that would make the modification somewhat irreversable. So it was made that way for a wheel on each side for a grooved and a single wheel if someone had a Blade application. It was a matter of taking the idea and making it work as an "add on" that was easily reversable. Each kit uses the same brackets to hang the rollers onto. But two types of rollers are in the kit.

  18. #168
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    Whew! This thread is long. My only comment is to clarify what was said in a roundabout way earlier. The X-mag is a custom version of the E-mag. If you want a custom version of any gun, it will take longer than normal to get one. Especially for custom anodizing. I will get my X-mag when I can afford one. I'll enjoy my Classic 'Mag until then. BTW, I would like to thank Tom for reading and responding to the posts here. He doesn't have to you know.

    CPPA Member #1875

  19. #169

    Re: You know what, Miscue? Do it.

    Originally posted by ddinwdc
    Stop talking about it and just do it already. You guys really get off on the power trip, and your members are people I no longer want to associate with. You think I care if I get banned from AO? Do you think that will make even the slightest impact on my life? I have been nothing but courteous, and have never flamed anyone without provocation. Have I come to the defense of children as they were mercilessly berated by grown men twice their age? Yes. Have I responded to people who--rather than engage in intelligent debate--resorted to name-calling? Sure. But I defy you to show me where I cussed. Wanker? That's not a cuss word in this country, but I removed it anyway. I could curse in Japanese if you want me to (as someone has already done in this thread, but I guess you missed that one, huh?), but you wouldn't understand it either, so why would it matter? I come here to express my opinion, not to pick fights. Clearly, you people have a problem with someone who speaks his or her mind and (gasp) challenges the status quo. So go ahead, hypocrite, ban me. I guess your rules don't apply to people whose opinion you agree with. And you know what else? If I ever feel like it, I'll set up another account with a different email address and come right back. But don't worry, that won't happen.
    Here ya go man might be helpful.

    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=82619

    -Tron

  20. #170
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    So the ultimate question is "when"?

  21. #171
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    Just a little warning before folks think they can avoid being banned on a particular forum by IP Masking, Changing IP Addresses, etc.

    Yes, you CAN get around those bans. Nope, it really isn’t that hard. But…… folks need to ask themselves if it is WORTH it. You had better have a darn good reason for doing it IF you do. Now sometimes there may be, but most of the time there isn’t.

    Now, why do I say this? Because most ISP’s have rules about these kinds of things, and they are more than happy to terminate an account just to avoid problems. Now if you are running free AOL crap, you may think it is okay… for a while… until AOL decides not to let that number ever create an account again. And if you are running DSL or Cable….. what a waste of a good account.

    Folks are free to do as they wish, but they should really consider all the possible outcomes for their actions.

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  22. #172
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    Originally posted by No sKiLLz
    So the ultimate question is "when"?
    When what?

  23. #173
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    When are they going to start delivering?

  24. #174
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    Originally posted by No sKiLLz
    When are they going to start delivering?
    The answer's been clearly stated: As soon as they can.

    I agree on the confusing marketing, most of the material on the X I've seen gives the impression that it's AGD's next big production gun, not a limited custom item. Ah well, maybe in 10 years they'll be another Holy Grail of paintball collecting, another Desert Duck or Daystar.

  25. #175
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    Originally posted by TequilaMockingbird


    The answer's been clearly stated: As soon as they can.

    I agree on the confusing marketing, most of the material on the X I've seen gives the impression that it's AGD's next big production gun, not a limited custom item. Ah well, maybe in 10 years they'll be another Holy Grail of paintball collecting, another Desert Duck or Daystar.
    ...or pump kit for the Automag.

  26. #176
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    Duly noted. I imagine by the time it's available I might just have the money again to sink into another high end marker. Until then I guess I'll just have to settle for the Xtreme Matrix. <-----arrives tomorrow!!!

    I still love AGD and would buy an X-mag in a heartbeat, but you know how it is when you're out of food and water and there's no land in sight...

  27. #177
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    Philip,

    Do us all a favor and for gods sake, LOCK THIS THREAD. This is completely out of control. DD really didnt violate the agreement. There was no need to allow it to continue, Moderators should "LOCK" these things down "BEFORE" they get out of hand.

  28. #178
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    I dont know if tom realizes this or not but there may be 10,000 members at AO but there are only about 800 active users and out of those only about 200 have enough money floating around just to go otu and buy an X-mag. Another problem is about only 1/3 of the paintball public even knows of the exsistence of the X-Mag and the
    X-mags two main competators the Angel and Timmy about 9/10 of the paintball public knows about them.

  29. #179
    WarBUCKs Guest
    I love AGD...

    If I knew that their were X-mags to buy off the dealer forum, I would have checked it out, but I put myself on the waiting list like an idiot. Along with 300 other people I guess. heh heh


    Well, I know I can wait it out. I have no problems doing that. The anticipation is soooo exciting...

  30. #180
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    well this one has risen back from the dead!

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