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Thread: Useless facts on time, light, gravity, relativity

  1. #1
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    Post Useless facts on time, light, gravity, relativity

    I think all this as a base for an essay would be pretty good for school...

    I am offically the only one up at this point in time. Of course time is an inrelative thing...

    In space, there is no time. There is no gravity.

    The faster you go, the slower time gets.

    It is not possible to build a time machine because the faster you go, the slower time gets.

    A neutron star is a star that has a ton of gravity despite its' mass. It is kind of like a nitrogen bottle filled up to 50000psi.
    when the bottle holds 3000psi.

    A black hole tears time into shreds. A black hole is the end of everything.

    The idea of a wormhole is that somehow you get to the singularity of a black hole without already spaghettifying and shredding into nothing. The idea is that time shifts instantly through a singularity and theorically you end up in a difference place.

    Not even light can escape a black hole.

    We have taken information and pushed it through a chamber specially filled with cesium gas. That information traveled 50 times the speed of light, partially negateing the theory of relativity.

    The equation of relativity is e=mc˛, where e=energy
    m=mass
    c=speed of light
    ˛=squared

    This theory negates the possibility of traveling faster than the speed of light because by the time you reach that speed, all you will be is energy.

    All this I found out from Stephen Hawking's shows on CBS and his book
    "A Brief History of Time"

    Another place I learned some of these facts is http://www.howstuffworks.com.

    I have a ton more of facts about the preceding. I just thought I would share some.


    BTW, this can also be found in the late night OT thread


    Im pretty bored.

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    [This message has been edited by MagMan5446 (edited 07-10-2001).]

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    Another interesting book is 'HyperSpace'. If you liked Hawking's book, you'll probably like this.

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    wait a minute its not intirally impossible to go back in time\ create a time maching. What if you inverted your speed, so instead of going 2,000,000 mph, you go -2,000,000. there is perfect logical reasoning there.

    [This message has been edited by automagkid (edited 07-10-2001).]

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    Well, theoreticaly, if you shoot an orbit between two closely orbiting neutron stars you could come out before you entered, due to space-time curvature doing wonky things to an event horizon.

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    bah!!
    this sounds like yet another layman's version of a very complicated theory dumbified for everyone with half truthes and misinformation.

  6. #6

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    Why doesn't anyone ever do a college report on Revelations? Man I could tear up a paper writtin about Revelation. Like the seven churches, the rapture, tribulation, anti-christ....and on, and on, and on, and on..and right when you think I"m done..I just keep going and going and going

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    Phyre: Complicated theory, simple implementation, only the causality is brain-bending, I definitly waved a dead chicken over the cause, but the effect theoretically should be simple. I'm no serious physicist, but my knowledge is beyond the average layman (hey I find physics interesting!).

    JesusFreak; Been there, done that, yeah, it was definitely interesting.

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  8. #8
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    Well, actually, there is gravity in space. For example, in an orbit, you are still under the influence of Earth's gravitational field, but you are in a state of continuous free fall. This is why orbits decay (i.e., Mir). Also, there is time in space, since time and space exist in an interwoven four dimensional continuum. While it is impossible to go back in time by going faster than lightspeed (unless you are massless of course ), singularities, wormholes, etc., do make this possible ecause of their intense gravitation. Gravitaion is the result of mass bending space toward itself, and since time and space are intimately related...well, you get the picture. And the superluminal propagation experiment with the cesium gas did not violate Einstein's theories because light is massless. Only objects with mass increase in mass exponentially as they approach lightspeed.

    Want something that'll really bake your noodle? An Australian astronomer has proposed that the speed of light is slowing down uniformly. I.e., light traveled faster in the past than it does in the present.

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    Lord Vader:

    Are you saying that light produced today is slower than light produced a year ago, or that light slows down, just as a car slows down when it is coasting? I would like to read about this australian guy as well, so please post the link or place you found this information from.

    -Chris

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    <font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Magsrule3:
    Ummm.....yah......the.....ummm.... Alright I admit it! I didnt understand one word coming out your mouths. Jeez I just finished the 8th grade.

    </font>
    lol, I just finished the 7th.

    About the light slowing down over time, since light is massless, would there be any effects of friction? And where can I find out about this aussie guy.

    ------------------
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    She told me to come but I was already there
    'Cause the walls start shaking
    The earth was quaking
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    And we were making it and you -
    Shook me all night long
    You shook me alll night long

    -AC/DC

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    Up for spam.

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    In space, there is no time. There is no gravity.
    ** not true space has both


    The faster you go, the slower time gets.
    ** only from the bystanders reference not yours if your the one going fast.

    It is not possible to build a time machine because the faster you go, the slower time gets.
    ** yes you can, go fast for a period and time will speed up around you.

    A neutron star is a star that has a ton of gravity despite its' mass. It is kind of like a nitrogen bottle filled up to 50000psi.
    when the bottle holds 3000psi.
    ** Neutron stars have a ton of gravity because they also have a ton of mass

    A black hole tears time into shreds. A black hole is the end of everything.
    ** just compresses the hell out of it, not really shreading it.


    The idea of a wormhole is that somehow you get to the singularity of a black hole without already spaghettifying and
    shredding into nothing. The idea is that time shifts instantly through a singularity and theorically you end up in a difference
    place.

    Not even light can escape a black hole.
    ** true


    We have taken information and pushed it through a chamber specially filled with cesium gas. That information traveled 50
    times the speed of light, partially negateing the theory of relativity.
    ** This was later shown to have been the leading edge of the wavefront exiting while the trailing edge was still entering the chamber.

    The equation of relativity is e=mc˛, where e=energy
    m=mass
    c=speed of light
    ˛=squared
    ** Ok

    This theory negates the possibility of traveling faster than the speed of light because by the time you reach that speed, all
    you will be is energy.
    ** not true, Einsteins equations do not rule out the possibility of faster than light particles that are ALWAYS faster than light. They are still theoretical but called Tachyons and they have negative mass. The long sought neutrino may just be such a particle because the error bars of it's mass could put it in the negative mass catagory.

    Just a little theoretical physics to keep all you guys interested....

    AGD

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    Lord Vader: orbit's such as Mir's decay through friction, in Mir's case it's with the earth's atmosphere. Vacuum isn't. There are always particles in space. You hit the while in orbit, and slow down a fraction, this adds up and your orbit drops. There is no gravity per se in space, there also isn't on earth, you are affected by a gravitic field, which pulls you towards it's centre, on earth, and out to cis-lunar space, the earth's gravitic field is overpowering enough that you don't feel the effect of the Sun's or Jupiters for example. no matter where you are, you are affected by many gravitic fields, some of which actually are stong enough to really feel the effects.

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  14. #14
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    Tachyons. I've heard of those, I don't know much about them though. Yeah, I was mistaken about the space time and gravity thing, It was 1:30 in the morning.

    BTW, there is a game out, "Tachyon: The Fringe" That game rocks

    ------------------
    She was a fast machine
    She kept her motor clean
    She was the best damn woman I had ever seen
    She had the sightless eyes
    Telling me no lies
    Knockin' me out with those American thighs
    Taking more than her share
    Had me fighting for air
    She told me to come but I was already there
    'Cause the walls start shaking
    The earth was quaking
    My mind was aching
    And we were making it and you -
    Shook me all night long
    You shook me alll night long

    -AC/DC

  15. #15
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    Right, but my point is that outer space is not devoid of gravity. However, if you just went straight up, even outside Earth's atmosphere, you'd come right back down unless you place yourself in a precise path that uses the Earth's pull to keep you moving away from the center of the Earth (i.e., an orbit). In fact, you are technically under the influence of stars' gravities from the other side of the universe, since the force of gravity tends to zero as the distance between the two objects in question goes to infinity (according to Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation).

    As for the Australian guy, I'll post some references after I get home from work; it is in a book I have that details evidences for the case of special creation of the universe. From what I can tell, he proposes that the speed of light basically has not always been 300,000 km/s. Yet, it seems constant because 1) we have only been abe to accurately measure the speed of light for the past half century or so, and 2) all light travels at the same speed (i.e., light at any given point in space travels the same speed as light from any other given point, yet that speed may be decreasing uniformly).

    Hey Tom, thanks for the simplification of what I said. I can get verbose sometimes. By the way, I am an 18-year-old rising sophomore at Georgia Tech majring in nuclear/radiologial engineering, in case any of you were curious as to my educational background.

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    Tom: great explanation, I tend to split hairs a bit too much.

    Lord Vader: correct, I misunderstood your definition of gravity in space, as above I tend to split hairs on this type of subject.

    Funnily enough, I'm a 24 year old ex classics major, who shuffles packets for a living, but physics is a love, just don't want to do it for a living, I get wierd when I do to much calculus.

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    Tachyons are one of those theoretical particles where it travels faster than light, but cannot go slower.

    Bah... this stuff isn't worth writing about in highschool/college... although it is fun to read about. This stuff is so complicated when it comes down to it, all you can understand is a dummyized form of it, you are pretty much limited to repeating what you read and pretend to understand it... with nothing to add to it. You wouldn't be writing an essay so much as a book report. Heck, a 7th grader could do a good job of absorbing this and writing about it no worse than anyone else with no formal theoretical physics background. In fact I know of such a person who did a good job writing about this in the 7th grade...

    A little side tracked... I was watching Discovery (I LOVE this station, it's about all I watch anymore) at 3AM this morning, on Supervolcanoes... which are a number of magnitudes more powerful than anything we've ever seen... can drop the earth's temperature by several degrees and result in volcanic winter... worldwide crop destruction. Some amazing stuff. We've never observed one, but there was a supervolcanic eruption approximately 27,000 years ago. They say that this event coincides with the bottleneck observed in human mitochondrial DNA... wherein human DNA is so similar to each other, there had to have been a castastrophic event approx 25-30,000 years ago to have wiped the human population down to just thousands.

    Yellowstone won't be such a popular tourist attraction some day...

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    [This message has been edited by Miscue (edited 07-10-2001).]

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    Wow, even Mr.Kaye answered. All fasicinating information that I feel I cant add my two cents into. But...If I spin around really fast I see stars and feel gravity dropping me like a rock.

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    Cool

    wow! this is great i feel like i just learned somthing. very good to read this stuff every once and a while i wish i could add something. get into history and i can.
    yeah discovery is the best channel.
    learn stuff while having fun
    just like this

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    I remember learning in science class that light was made up of small particles called Photons (not protons by the way).

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    tachyons? I have a tachyon my dash
    Discovery and learning channel is the best!

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    Just so everyone knows, what you were taught in school may not be correct with the science community now. Neutrino fabled to be massless is bs. There's a study performed in canada in conjunction with other physicist around the world that proved that neutrino's have mass. I'm eventually going to get a degree that involves physics and it's just annoying seeing so much misleading information being spreaded. I'm glad AGD clarified and is pretty much on top of the physics matter. Remember, most of the stuff you hear in science is usually just a theory and you really should do the experiments and understand the reasoning. Alot of people thought the world was flat at one point but I hope everyone knows the world is round now. Science is just an evolving explanation for how things work and at any given time is not the absolute answer.

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    UP

    AGD

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    <font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MagMan5446:
    lol, I just finished the 7th.

    About the light slowing down over time, since light is massless, would there be any effects of friction? And where can I find out about this aussie guy.

    </font>
    i only finished the 8th grade also, i doesnt mean you are ignorant, well some 8th graders are, but other than that there actually are intilectual teenagers, contridicting popular belief.

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    im reminded of something someone once said on here. "i like the idea that my paintball gun was designed by a rocket scientist." me too.

    i think you all are forgeting one important thing, and the best way to identify that would be to go to the video store, rent a copy of back to the future one thru three, watch them, and report your findings back here to the forums.

    RT

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    Lightbulb

    light IS composed of particles called photons all though the mass of a photon is 0 as it is for the Gluon and Graviton. the interesting thing about photons is they always move at the same speed, even relative to a moving observer. if you were to chase after a photon at 1/2 the speed of light it would still move away form you at 670 million mp/h, the same speed it would move away form you if you were standing still. it's a strange thing to have as a constant. The reason that time appears to slow for a moving object from the point of view of a stationary one, is because when you add up an objects velocity in the 3 dimensions of space and the 1 dimension of time then they must always equal the speed of light. so if an object is moving on the X axis and stationary on both Y and Z axis then that velocity must be deducted form it's movement in the time dimension. there fore slowing down time from our point of view. however form the moving object's point of view time has sped up for everything else and is progressing normally for it. (man do I love this stuff)
    Also the mass of the three types of neutrinos in multiples of the proton mass are:
    Electron-neutrino - < 10<font size="-3">-8</font size="-3">
    Muon-neutrino - < .0003
    Tau-neutrino < .033

    and yes I did just grab that mass table from a book, and no I don't really understand it. however take out most of the numbers and both special and general relativity make sense. providing of course you don't try to think about quantum mechanics at the same time. (it makes my head pound, and to think I do this for fun.) the thing I'm reading about now is Super string theory it may bring the two together but at the moment I haven't finished the book yet so I don't really understand it. however form what I do understand at the moment string theory states that all particles are composed of tiny (and I mean really small about the Planck length or 1.616x 10<font size="-3">-33</font size="-3"> centimeters) one dimensional string loops that vibrate at different frequencies causing different amounts of mass and energy. also from what I can tell you can say goodbye to your 4 dimensional universe, it's time for bigger and better we're moving on up to 11 dimensions now (no I haven't read that part yet it was on the jacket)
    the book is called "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Green, published by Vintage Books. it's very well written and as soon as I finish it I'll be even better informed then I am now (I guess that's the point though)

    one fun little thing about the universe.
    it stands to reason that there are an infinite number of planets in the universe, simply because there is an infinite amount of room for them to exist in. however not all of them are inhabited. and as any number divided by infinity is so close to nothing as to be 0, then the average population of the universe is nothing, any anyone you should happen to meat is just a figment of your deranged imagination. (paraphrased form "The Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy"

    (I couldn't figure out the html tag for an exponent so when you see this 10<font size="-3">-8</font size="-3"> that's what it is)

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    I've noticed some strange ideas on what it means to orbit. Think of it as a continuous fall towards Earth... but you keep missing.

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    <font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Miscue:
    I've noticed some strange ideas on what it means to orbit. Think of it as a continuous fall towards Earth... but you keep missing.

    </font>
    An orbit is caused by an object going in circles around something with more mass than itself. Therefore the orbiting object will always be moving a constant distance towards the object with more mass.

    In a different subject (sort of) it is believed by some scientists that our galaxy is orbiting around a black hole(cygnus x-1 i think) that is located in the center. In theory, eventually this galaxy will be...gone

    ------------------
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    Sad but true

    I'm your dream,
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    I'm your eyes while you're away
    I'm your pain
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    sad but true

    -MetallicA

    [This message has been edited by MagMan5446 (edited 07-11-2001).]

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    Exclamation

    Ummm.....yah......the.....ummm.... Alright I admit it! I didnt understand one word coming out your mouths. Jeez I just finished the 8th grade.

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    Thumbs up

    This was never really my department of science but I have always had a fondness for space and theories. Probably because I can think of theories for myself and no one can really prove them wrong right away. I guess this is another hobby of mine while sitting home and watching the stars.
    Anyways I have also wondered why Time is the 4th dimenison. I am dimenison is a name that we created. There are 3 usable dimenisons right now. (height, Width, length)Well it just a term we use, and since we made this term why not incorprate useful things in it. Rather then just using things like time and space as 4th dimenisons. I think a dimenisons order (1st 2nd 3rd ect) should be something the human mind can comprehend in order. (like easy to most difficult). Well here goes I think Gravity should be considered the 4th dimenison or perhaps, mass. Think about it. With Mass, or gravity plus the other three. We could probably determine weight, and something that cant be determined right now shape. Heck If I know its material(or maybe I dont even need to know that ) I can tell its shape with the other three,( because I would already have its size) and I can tell how gravity is reacting on it.(I'd probably need to know its strength as well though)oh well its just a thought.
    K here is just a few questions Does light have mass? If so how can Einsteins theory be correct, since light is the only thing that travels at light speed, It would have infinte mass, and keep getting bigger, cause its has reached that speed. (to infinity and beyond!)
    K does fire have Weight, if so how do u calculate that?
    Do all energy forms have weight in the most natural forum? (aka fire and light)
    What is anti-matter what is its weight?
    I think before we answer some questions we must look at the foundations. U cant hope to answer things with a shot in the dark, u have to know something about it.
    For humans to progress into the theories of gravity, we need to look at something simular ; magnets. They both for the same equation. I thought of a little experiment U know jinga blocks, right? Well what if u glued 3 blocks together for a base, then put a magnet on top (a flat one that goes across all three fits nearly square perfect) ( this is the foundation) then do the same thing to three other blocks with a magnet on the bottom but put magnets on the sides (around the egdes of the blocks). Then Plant magnets along the edge of the foundation going (standing) to the top 3 blocks that have magnets of same poles around there edges. The idea is for the top to float with no support but the magnets strength. Now for this to be truely successfull, I would like to know if the bottom foundation is realived of weight from the top because of the magnets? But something that might happen is the top could spin always looks for that opposite pole. (the basic principle of an electric engine)(neat uh). Guess what that means Magnets are a viable ever lasting enegry source. Much like gravity. or if it doesnt spin it could be use to making higher buildings less strain on foundations. Well what do u think?

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