American Airlines has my tank

**Miscue** · 07-07-2003, 04:36 AM

I went to AOAustin with my tank, no problem. But going back home was another story.

I told the turd boy manager what I had, and he said I could not bring it. "You can't bring CO2 cartridges." I told him it wasn't a CO2 cartridge, but an empty compressed air tank. He goes off telling me how it's against the law, how he taught a class and thus 'he should know' and other BS.
I explained to him that I could demonstrate the tank being empty. He said it doesn't have gauges so he can't tell. I showed him the gauges displaying 0 psi. I turned the valve on and off, explaining how it would be venting air if there was any in it.

There's been some confusion, so I'm not sure if my tank has been confiscated or not - I have different information. Gonna have to do some paper work and make phone calls to fix this.

Makes me mad... there's more pressure in this guy's colon than there was in my tank. Grr!

Animal Mother · 07-07-2003, 05:08 AM

Oh what a bunch of crap!!!!!

I hate theses ignorant lamers.. if you don't get your tank back I say file a report with the police. That is theft if you do not get it back.

What did the dip say when you showed him the 0psi gauge? I really hate stupid people.. what's even worse is ignorant stupid people that are put in charge of stuff like this. Theses are the same people that let 5 Afgans that happened to all be carrying box cutters for some reason onto a plane... heh heh..

Sorry to hear that man... good luck.

**manike** · 07-07-2003, 05:14 AM

What I really hate is when they say you can't have compressed air because the change in pressure will cause it to explode at altitude... and that the tank valve must be open.

When you explain the tank is designed to hold 4500psi and be tested in excess of that... and that the pressure difference is around 28psi (IIRC) between sea level and cruising altitude and that you don't think the tank will have much of an issue going from 0 - 28psi for the flight... they don't seem to find the funny side

Ignorant idiots. I don't usually have trouble but it's always a pain having to explain it. I just never loctite my regs on so I can show them the empty tank.

**MarkM** · 07-07-2003, 06:12 AM

I'm with Manike on this I have had problems with airline staff trying to "act big" but never had the bottle refused to be flown, come close and even had an airline try to say it can't go in the hold even though I flew out with the same airline ??? but normally a little bit of sticking to my guns and insisting for a security officer to actually come to see me as opposed to a phone call from the check-in works. They (airlines) do seem more concerned with the tanks rather than the markers (yes I always use that term !). American Airlines I have flown with on at least 2 seperate occasions, once with no grief and once with a little, I always allow just a little more time for check-in than they reccomend as getting moved from the line to explain takes that little bit longer. As Manike has said always ensure you can remove your reg so they can look inside the tank (well as best as you can see through that small hole

) I have flown with a regular on/off tap I couldn't remove but proved the valve was open and all was fine, and even removed burst disks to satisfy their fears. I hope you get it all sorted out, for the future you can "help" things along by getting a addition put on your ticket stating that you will be carrying compressed air cylinders and then it is on your notes at check-in and you "should" have pre-approval they do have a term they use but the title escapes me for the moment, but it does speed things up.

**raehl** · 07-07-2003, 06:17 AM

Point to DOT number on tank.

Make them look it up.

Or better yet, carry the information with you.

But they do need to be empty, and not because they might explode - the real problem is that if there's a fire, they don't want that much oxygen in one place.

- Chris

**MarkM** · 07-07-2003, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by raehl
Point to DOT number on tank.

Make them look it up.

Or better yet, carry the information with you.

But they do need to be empty, and not because they might explode - the real problem is that if there's a fire, they don't want that much oxygen in one place.

- Chris

Oh yeah how to make friends and influence people

Chris, ANY attitude like that at check-in and you and your bottle WON'T fly. Have the info ready sure but to try and tell the fool at check-in they are a fool will not get you moving other than to another airline....get their Super to come and see you and/or airport security. Perhaps your post is like a lot of others elsewhere

...IE didn't come out the way you meant it. But chill man, Manike and I have flown and gone through a lot more crap than you currently have. American internal flights are a joke from a security point of view, transatlantic flights are way hotter on the what can and won't go. I have taken internal flights from two different airports on the same trip and what sets off the scanners at one airport doesn't at the other, absolutely no consistency.

**Kevmaster** · 07-07-2003, 09:01 AM

yeh, i don't think he ment to put in the inferred "be a butt" the way it came out...

but yeh, carry some documenation for the tank and osha/dot rules

**MarkM** · 07-07-2003, 09:09 AM

Kevmaster, Chris has a habit of doing that in a lot of his posts, not here but elsewhere hence the "dig" but also a lot of the time he DOES mean it the way he says it (by his own admission)

**raehl** · 07-07-2003, 09:47 AM

Yeah, THIS time I glossed over the "and be smooth about it" part, although I've also flown plenty of times with tanks and never had any trouble. I always just right out say to the gate agent "There is sporting equipment in this bag, including empty compressed air tanks."

But yeah, since the pile of to-do stuff is always high, sometimes the posts get written with the short version.

- Chris

**MarkM** · 07-07-2003, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by raehl
Yeah, THIS time I glossed over the "and be smooth about it" part, although I've also flown plenty of times with tanks and never had any trouble. I always just right out say to the gate agent "There is sporting equipment in this bag, including empty compressed air tanks."

But yeah, since the pile of to-do stuff is always high, sometimes the posts get written with the short version.

- Chris

Fair enough Chris

thought you would have realised by now NOT to "gloss over" things as look at the trouble you have gotten into before

Hostilitys are still suspended for the moment, as you have been told. So tread carefully when all the Toulouse disection stuff gets posted

(note to any reading this Chris knows where and what I am talking about)

**Muzikman** · 07-07-2003, 10:13 AM

With my traveling over seas (not with paintball gear) I have found that across pond trips are actually lacking security. Hell, it was harder to get into Canada last thursday and than any time I have been to the UK, Germany, or Spain.

Anyway, this is the reason I have large plastic lockable containers that I ship my gear to ther destination when I fly.

**SyntaxError** · 07-07-2003, 11:05 AM

American Airlines totally sucks!! This seems to be a common complaint now with this airline, although I can understand how they're concerned for their passengers' safety.

I believe Skinny K had a similar situation with American West

**RoadDawg** · 07-07-2003, 11:15 AM

I had that problem with Delta about a year ago. They tried to take my 48/3k even though I've flown 4 times previously with it w/o hassle. I even had the tank screwed into a ASA (no macroline) and the guy says nope it'll blow up. He then called and checked the DOT # and said sorry sir for the inconvienence. They were about to fine me and take my tanks for breaking federal laws. He said since it has a pin valve and has a guage displaying 0 (plus he pressed down the pin to make sure) he said it was ok. I've even drawn it out for people to make sure they understood how it works. I even pointed out the burst disk saying that it is a safety of sorts that when it over pressurizes it will pop and leak out. I don't hold it against them though. I mean they are doing there job and making sure everyone is safe. Not always safe and happy but safe.

**BlackVCG** · 07-07-2003, 12:16 PM

I think it helps to tell them it's just a small SCUBA tank. They fly SCUBA tanks more often than paintball tanks, so the correlation is better once you say that.

I've also found it better to not mention anything at all. Just put zip ties on your check-in baggage and let it go through.

**Kevmaster** · 07-07-2003, 12:20 PM

two things:

most airlines prohibit "paintball co2 tanks"...and most workers don't know the difference between co2 and N2...so calling it a SCUBA tank is a good idea

not mentioning it, is a bad idea. if they find it, which they're allowed to now, most all baggage gets searched now post9-11, they can ***** at you for not declaring it

**magman007** · 07-07-2003, 12:28 PM

You guys really have that much of a problem with your tanks? I cant believe it. I flew from south america (chile) To miami And had no problem. In Santiago when i was leaving i just mentioned i had a small air tank and it was open(pinvalve) I pulled the tank out, and depressed the pin valve for the lady to see, and then replaced the ASA i had on there, so that the valve would stay open and keep them all happy.

I cant believe you guys have all this trouble flying with your tanks.

HEll, i had more of an issue comming into customs and the wierd customs officer (at 5 am im sure they are all wierd) asking me
[him]"what were you doing in South america"
(me)"studdying sir"
[him]"likely story, please step asside"

any ways yea thats how it went, then at TSA security they asked alot of questions about the SFL..... made me prove the pack wasnt a block of c4 etc.... it was annoying!

**Pvt.Opium** · 07-07-2003, 12:32 PM

I flew with my tanks on Delta once. THey gave me no problem as long as I was able to show them that 1. there was no pressure in the tank and 2 that the tank was open.

Those People are Dumb. I quess that rejecting Compressed Air Bottles from customers is there way of Feeling Important

**Miscue** · 07-07-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by BlackVCG
I think it helps to tell them it's just a small SCUBA tank. They fly SCUBA tanks more often than paintball tanks, so the correlation is better once you say that.

I've also found it better to not mention anything at all. Just put zip ties on your check-in baggage and let it go through.

I told him it was like a scuba, but he said scuba tanks could not be taken.

I was thinking about not mentioning it... but I figure that, if some idiot makes a fuss about it... they might take my luggage or something... or worse.

**Muzikman** · 07-07-2003, 12:46 PM

A guy I would withh goes on two or three dive trips every year where he has to fly. He said he never travels with his tanks and just rents them when he gets there. He's been doing this for many years and he said it's not worth the hassle to try and take them. So it doesn't look like it's just paintball that gets picked on.

**RobAGD** · 07-07-2003, 01:07 PM

I have had these same issues, and I know people that have not been as luck as I have.

Team Lockout made a trip, empty tanks and all and found that when they arrived at the event thier gear bags had ben CUT open and all the tanks taken off guns and a note "Items seized". They did not call them, or ask them any questions NOTHING. They show up at an event to play and had to have tanks fedex to them same day.

The real problem here is the IGNORANCE of the people that should know the rules better. My tank without reg is no differnt that my 54oz drink cup that I pack. Yet I find myself having to explain this way too much. TSA TOOK a tank out of a teammates bag, now he is getting the run around on getting it returned or replaced. The airline says ask TSA, call TSA and you get a recording. he problem comes down to who is responsable for equipment that is removed. In my book it would be considered a loss do to theft and should fall ack on the airline. BTW the tank was empty, no burst disks etc.

The whole airline thing just makes my arse ache.

-Robert

PS and dont get me started on Canada

**nippinout** · 07-07-2003, 01:34 PM

Uh, why were the bags cut open? I think even buffoons know how to operate zippers lol.

It's amazing how a tank without regulator causes so much concern. Just like you said Rob, no difference from the drink cup. LOL

**rdb123** · 07-07-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Animal Mother
...what's even worse is ignorant stupid people that are put in charge of stuff like this. Theses are the same people that let 5 Afgans that happened to all be carrying box cutters for some reason onto a plane... heh heh...

Actually they were hidden in the seat cushions. They found box cutters in other planes hidden there too.

**SpecialBlend2786** · 07-07-2003, 02:02 PM

I hate people that think that they know everything. That guy at american airlines probably didn't even know what psi stands for .

**Muzikman** · 07-07-2003, 02:05 PM

Umm...up until after 9-11, there was no rule against knives and box cutters being on planes. I ha flown many times with my swiss army knife in my carry on (and for those who have seen it...it's a beast). The only rule they had was that it could not be a lock-back and it could not be more than a 3" blade. So...those guys that got on a plane with box cutters were doing nothing against airline rules until they used then to hi-jack the plane.

With that being said. Airport security is getting out of hand and I personally think it is all for the public to feel safe. With all the flying I do (over 280,000 flyer miles) I see so many holes in the system that I think no matter how anal and rude that airport security will be it will never be safer. And yes, putting paintball asside, the TSA guys can be rude as hell...even to the person just trying to get back home from a long business trip and to the poor old lady that MUST be carrying that AK-47 under her dress.

Any way, for as cheap as it is. Ship the tank to the place of destination, even if you don't ship the rest of the gear. (Though, it did cost me more to fedex my gear to Shatner ball than it did for my plane ticket

)

ben_JD · 07-07-2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by RobAGD
The airline says ask TSA, call TSA and you get a recording. [T]he problem comes down to who is responsable for equipment that is removed. In my book it would be considered a loss do to theft and should fall ack on the airline.

If it was taken out of your luggage post-checkin, it is TSA. They are responsible for all luggage security checks after the bags have been checked through the terminals. The airlines have no control over this process and cannot determine what happened to your tanks or any other stuff confiscated.

Currently, the gate agents are told, "if in doubt, do no allow it." In this day and age, I will always ship my tanks ahead of me; it is not worth the hassle.

**Miscue** · 07-07-2003, 04:11 PM

Well, I just got a phone call from AA. They told me a specialist took a look at it (who was unavailable yesterday), and he said it was fine. The lady said it was obviously empty, and was a professional tank... not a CO2 cylinder like that turd burglar had reported even after I explained it. She apologized and said I should have been able to take it. I asked to have them ship it, and they said they can't. Havoc is gonna end up having to pick it up for me... which totally blows. And, he has to do it like right now otherwise they will throw it away. Gonna work on a letter to try to get some compensation for his gas and stuff.

**Muzikman** · 07-07-2003, 04:17 PM

You mean they will not put it on the next plane to LV??? That's odd...

BTW, where is it? Houston Airport? If so, let me know and I can get one of our guys at the people mover to pick it up and ship it to me here at work and then I can just give it to you at IAO....

but then again, you would have to go through the same problem in Pittsburgh

**Miscue** · 07-07-2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by raehl
Point to DOT number on tank.

Make them look it up.

Or better yet, carry the information with you.

But they do need to be empty, and not because they might explode - the real problem is that if there's a fire, they don't want that much oxygen in one place.

- Chris

I told them that the DOT info should show that the tank is safe for transport. They said this applies to cargo planes, and not passenger planes... the rules being different. I dunno how this all works...

**Miscue** · 07-07-2003, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Muzikman
You mean they will not put it on the next plane to LV??? That's odd...

They will not ship it, they will not put it on the next plane... and it looks as though they will provide no compensation for having to pick it up and ship it. I just hate having to waste Curtis's time to get this for me.

As I understand it, they were not supposed to hold on to it to begin with unless they confiscated it. However, they made an 'exception' and will release it. I'm thinking that they can't ship it because their policies don't cover this since they should not ever be in a position where they have to do this, if they follow procedures correctly.

GT · 07-07-2003, 04:27 PM

It would be nice if some folks posted the DOT regs, via a link, for use. Easy for us to take on a trip w/ us.

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